NWL

Make the deposit if you are nervous or approaching a deadline. You can wait until 20 April if you want.
You can get that $300 or so dollars back if you receive an appointment before 1 May. You may be able to get it back after 1 May--but you will have peace of mind and a solid plan.
 
Do all candidates receive notification of their QNS status on their portal? I only recall receiving a physical TWE in the mail last year.
 
DrMom said:
This is the time of year where you must keep faith. You simply do not know. The NWL is the absolute best place to be until a TWE or BFE arrive--and you cannot possibly predict which one. If they did not want your kid, he would have a TWE already. One of my cadets did not receive his BFE until around 24 April. That 1 May deadline for notification is really just that. Also, there are high quality candidates with a Nomination who have offers coming in from other schools and service academies--trying to figure out what they want to do. When those kids decline, it opens up another slot. You simply do not know how this is going to work out at this point. Keep Faith.
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what about if we have not received the TWE or BFE but we also don't show as NWL? Just shows as Candidate still.
 
Money33 said:
Does your TWE or BFE show up in portal?
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BFE is Big Fat Envelope and is a black fancy book thing with the appointment letter and a picture of the main hall at West Point that comes in the mail. Idk about the TWE, logically it would make sense for it to show up on the portal since it is probably near instant rather than snail mail but for me I never had anything show up in my portal even after I got my BFE.
 
ProudAZmom said:
what about if we have not received the TWE or BFE but we also don't show as NWL? Just shows as Candidate still.
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You just have to wait. You will know by 1 May. Definitely make a solid alternative plan for college next year. Go ahead and accept that ROTC scholarship and send the deposit to the other school while you wait. April is a hard month to wait. Again, you may hear nothing until you receive a rejection letter or an acceptance notification...either in the mail or on your portal. Best wishes to you.
 
Money33 said:
Will I know by May 1 what my situation is though, because West Point is by far my top choice, but college deposits are also due that day, and I do not want to mess up the other options. Also, if you do not get into West Point do you definitely get a letter of rejection, or do they just never tell you and leave you wondering? Thank you for the information, I am fine with waiting, however there are other colleges that need to know by May 1, and need a physical deposit of money as well. Thank you for any help in advance!
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Yes, WP will let you know. Stay close to your FF Rep and keep them apprised of your situation and tight timeframes.
 
Army Vet & WPFF said:
Yes, WP will let you know. Stay close to your FF Rep and keep them apprised of your situation and tight timeframes.
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I wish DS's FFR cared about his candidates the same way you do. Slightly disappointed in DS's FFR. DS got on NWL in November, TWE in March. He was in close contact with FFR throughout the application process. DS retook the SAT in the fall and immediately let FFR know he improved his score from an 1100 to a 1280. FFR could have pointed out that a 1280 was still too low and hurting his overall WCS and could have encouraged a final retake but he did not. DS thought that once on the NWL that he was considered qualified. With some time DS learned that that SAT is actually hurting his score but retaking wasn't an option since his results wouldn't be back by the application deadline. The more research he did the more he wished he had retaken the SAT for a third time. He expressed his willingness to his FFR on the prep school route, but FFR told him not to jump the gun but to wait on their decision.

Then TWE arrives and DS gets FFR's feedback, something about the great number of other qualified candidates in the "(JROTC) service connected nomination pool' and that he should try again next year. Also that next year his MOC will have USMA noms to give out (MOC had five attending WP this year, so no MOC noms to give out this year). Then DS replies, but he had also had a SENATORIAL nom? Strangely, no mention of that. He got zero constructive feedback on what went wrong (interviews? essays? test scores?). Or if there is a different route (prep school, military college) or what he could do to improve his application should he try again next year. And nothing about where he stacked up compared to the others on either slate. Sadly DS expected overall guidance and advice through the process and not just two line emails. Bummer.

Right now, he's done with WP. Plan B (ROTC) was probably the better option in the first place.
 
FrauTeufelshund said:
I wish DS's FFR cared about his candidates the same way you do. Slightly disappointed in DS's FFR. DS got on NWL in November, TWE in March. He was in close contact with FFR throughout the application process. DS retook the SAT in the fall and immediately let FFR know he improved his score from an 1100 to a 1280. FFR could have pointed out that a 1280 was still too low and hurting his overall WCS and could have encouraged a final retake but he did not. DS thought that once on the NWL that he was considered qualified. With some time DS learned that that SAT is actually hurting his score but retaking wasn't an option since his results wouldn't be back by the application deadline. The more research he did the more he wished he had retaken the SAT for a third time. He expressed his willingness to his FFR on the prep school route, but FFR told him not to jump the gun but to wait on their decision.

Then TWE arrives and DS gets FFR's feedback, something about the great number of other qualified candidates in the "(JROTC) service connected nomination pool' and that he should try again next year. Also that next year his MOC will have USMA noms to give out (MOC had five attending WP this year, so no MOC noms to give out this year). Then DS replies, but he had also had a SENATORIAL nom? Strangely, no mention of that. He got zero constructive feedback on what went wrong (interviews? essays? test scores?). Or if there is a different route (prep school, military college) or what he could do to improve his application should he try again next year. And nothing about where he stacked up compared to the others on either slate. Sadly DS expected overall guidance and advice through the process and not just two line emails. Bummer.

Right now, he's done with WP. Plan B (ROTC) was probably the better option in the first place.
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I can see why you and your DS would be a bit frustrated but with all due respect, how come your DS didn't do a quick google search on the average SAT scores? You could have compared them to the previous years class profiles or from college prep sites to gauge where you are compared to your competition. Also, and again with all due respect, I've had virtually 0 communication with my FFR from the slightly more competitive Northeast region and still somehow managed to get in (FFR didn't even send me an email about my offer of appointment and still hasn't after 2.5 weeks).
 
FrauTeufelshund said:
I wish DS's FFR cared about his candidates the same way you do. Slightly disappointed in DS's FFR. DS got on NWL in November, TWE in March. He was in close contact with FFR throughout the application process. DS retook the SAT in the fall and immediately let FFR know he improved his score from an 1100 to a 1280. FFR could have pointed out that a 1280 was still too low and hurting his overall WCS and could have encouraged a final retake but he did not. DS thought that once on the NWL that he was considered qualified. With some time DS learned that that SAT is actually hurting his score but retaking wasn't an option since his results wouldn't be back by the application deadline. The more research he did the more he wished he had retaken the SAT for a third time. He expressed his willingness to his FFR on the prep school route, but FFR told him not to jump the gun but to wait on their decision.

Then TWE arrives and DS gets FFR's feedback, something about the great number of other qualified candidates in the "(JROTC) service connected nomination pool' and that he should try again next year. Also that next year his MOC will have USMA noms to give out (MOC had five attending WP this year, so no MOC noms to give out this year). Then DS replies, but he had also had a SENATORIAL nom? Strangely, no mention of that. He got zero constructive feedback on what went wrong (interviews? essays? test scores?). Or if there is a different route (prep school, military college) or what he could do to improve his application should he try again next year. And nothing about where he stacked up compared to the others on either slate. Sadly DS expected overall guidance and advice through the process and not just two line emails. Bummer.

Right now, he's done with WP. Plan B (ROTC) was probably the better option in the first place.
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bober1171 said:
I can see why you and your DS would be a bit frustrated but with all due respect, how come your DS didn't do a quick google search on the average SAT scores? You could have compared them to the previous years class profiles or from college prep sites to gauge where you are compared to your competition. Also, and again with all due respect, I've had virtually 0 communication with my FFR from the slightly more competitive Northeast region and still somehow managed to get in (FFR didn't even send me an email about my offer of appointment and still hasn't after 2.5 weeks).
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Great point. Your Field Force Representative or BGO/ALO (depending on Service Academy) is not responsibile for ensuring that your SAT is where your son wants them to be. Guidance from Admissions has always been to submit the best set of SAT Scores since they accept the best set of scores submitted and also Super-Score.

It is one's own responsibility to ensure that their application is competitive and the best they have to offer. Furthermore, average SATs and SAT breakdowns are posted and easily accessible on the West Point Admissions website through a quick search: https://www.westpoint.edu/admissions/class-profile

I recommend checking out Extreme Ownership: How U.S. Navy SEALs Lead and Win by Jocko Willink and Leif Babin. Even though I do not think this is the fault of your Field Force Representative and I understand that you may, you will have to realize that in life and in the military, that not everything is fair, but you have to deal with it and take responsibility for everything that you can do.
 
The RC is the admissions officer for a region. An FFR is not an admissions officer and, while important to the process, in my opinion (as a former FFR) should not be considered a candidate's most important contact with USMA. Many questions/issues can be addressed by an FFR, but some are better addressed by the RC. Do not bother the RC with trivial issues, but do not hesitate to contact for important matters.

Some differences between RC/FFR:

FFR (Field Force Representative)
  • Alumni volunteer
  • Some regions are blessed with many FFR's, some have too few.
  • Some will have years of experience and plenty of time to dedicate, some less experience and less time due to job and other responsibilities
  • Works under the direction of the RC
  • Conducts interviews and advises candidates
  • Access to portions (not all) of candidate information for candidates in assigned districts
  • Access to Candidate Potential: Admissible, Competitive, Offered, etc.
  • No access to WCS score
  • No access to ranking of candidates unless provided by RC, but may be able to estimate based on individual file information
  • Can't usually tell candidate that a document has/has not been received
  • Can identify areas of strength/weakness in an application

RC (Regional Commander)
  • Full time admissions officer
  • Access to complete candidate file
  • Calculates WCS score for candidates in region
  • Can confirm whether a document has been received
  • In-depth knowledge of candidate status at any given point in time
  • Only person that can definitively answer "What are my chances? Why didn't I get an appointment? What can I do to improve my chances next year?" FFR can provide valuable input, but not as specific as RC.
 
Aviator25 said:
Great point. Your Field Force Representative or BGO/ALO (depending on Service Academy) is not responsibile for ensuring that your SAT is where your son wants them to be. Guidance from Admissions has always been to submit the best set of SAT Scores since they accept the best set of scores submitted and also Super-Score.

It is one's own responsibility to ensure that their application is competitive and the best they have to offer. Furthermore, average SATs and SAT breakdowns are posted and easily accessible on the West Point Admissions website through a quick search: https://www.westpoint.edu/admissions/class-profile

I recommend checking out Extreme Ownership: How U.S. Navy SEALs Lead and Win by Jocko Willink and Leif Babin. Even though I do not think this is the fault of your Field Force Representative and I understand that you may, you will have to realize that in life and in the military, that not everything is fair, but you have to deal with it and take responsibility for everything that you can do.
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He submit 2 sets of scores for the SAT (skipped a huge hockey tournament 400 miles away to take it the first time, then Covid cancellations, then drove 300 miles b/c of Covid to take it the second time...so please no lecture on his lack of taking responsibility for his actions. Then at the same time everyone who was unable to schedule was not given negative points for not having one ) His application was strong. I am not "blaming" the field force rep that he did not get in. I just thought the FFR is there for guidance? Or at least a real explanation of why he got rejected? As for the SAT score...his FFR actually congratulated him on upping his SAT score by 180 points. If a 1280 was so low (the weakest part of his application) don't you think the FFR could have encouraged trying to get one last attempt in to retake? Disappointed in the lack of real feedback after the rejection as well. He still doesn't know if it was the SAT, or essays or interview or the actual why?

I guess he will have to reach out to the RC who he has gotten one or two emails from since April of 2020 when his SLE application went to a full application. It doesn't really matter now as Plan B is in place (4 year AROTC scholarship)but hopefully the disappointment will fade with time.

I will pass on the book suggestion to DS.
 
jl123 said:
The RC is the admissions officer for a region. An FFR is not an admissions officer and, while important to the process, in my opinion (as a former FFR) should not be considered a candidate's most important contact with USMA. Many questions/issues can be addressed by an FFR, but some are better addressed by the RC. Do not bother the RC with trivial issues, but do not hesitate to contact for important matters.

Some differences between RC/FFR:

FFR (Field Force Representative)
  • Alumni volunteer
  • Some regions are blessed with many FFR's, some have too few.
  • Some will have years of experience and plenty of time to dedicate, some less experience and less time due to job and other responsibilities
  • Works under the direction of the RC
  • Conducts interviews and advises candidates
  • Access to portions (not all) of candidate information for candidates in assigned districts
  • Access to Candidate Potential: Admissible, Competitive, Offered, etc.
  • No access to WCS score
  • No access to ranking of candidates unless provided by RC, but may be able to estimate based on individual file information
  • Can't usually tell candidate that a document has/has not been received
  • Can identify areas of strength/weakness in an application

RC (Regional Commander)
  • Full time admissions officer
  • Access to complete candidate file
  • Calculates WCS score for candidates in region
  • Can confirm whether a document has been received
  • In-depth knowledge of candidate status at any given point in time
  • Only person that can definitively answer "What are my chances? Why didn't I get an appointment? What can I do to improve my chances next year?" FFR can provide valuable input, but not as specific as RC.
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Outlined well above. Most FF Reps report to a District Coordinator or a State Coordinator high up in their food chain. They can also be an option before going straight to the RC. Think of FF Reps more as recruiters, coaches, and cheerleaders than as a gate keeper. That is what the RC is. Like anything else, some FF Reps better than others with more experience, etc. In my neck of the woods in the SW region, we pride ourselves on being transparent with candidates and managing expectations where we can. We are all big fans of ROTC options and stay close to those area recruiters as well.
 
FrauTeufelshund said:
He submit 2 sets of scores for the SAT (skipped a huge hockey tournament 400 miles away to take it the first time, then Covid cancellations, then drove 300 miles b/c of Covid to take it the second time...so please no lecture on his lack of taking responsibility for his actions. Then at the same time everyone who was unable to schedule was not given negative points for not having one ) His application was strong. I am not "blaming" the field force rep that he did not get in. I just thought the FFR is there for guidance? Or at least a real explanation of why he got rejected? As for the SAT score...his FFR actually congratulated him on upping his SAT score by 180 points. If a 1280 was so low (the weakest part of his application) don't you think the FFR could have encouraged trying to get one last attempt in to retake? Disappointed in the lack of real feedback after the rejection as well. He still doesn't know if it was the SAT, or essays or interview or the actual why?

I guess he will have to reach out to the RC who he has gotten one or two emails from since April of 2020 when his SLE application went to a full application. It doesn't really matter now as Plan B is in place (4 year AROTC scholarship)but hopefully the disappointment will fade with time.

I will pass on the book suggestion to DS.
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I understand that this year was a difficult situation. Life's not always smooth or going to turn out how you wanted it to. What matters is how to react to it all.

I am not sure about West Point specifically, but I know that every year around 30% of those entering Annapolis are not high school seniors with many of those being applications who have been rejected in the past and re-applied a second or third time. If you son really wants to attend West Point, I encourage him to re-apply. I wish him the best of luck.
 
To the OP, I am not sure what you would have wanted the FFR to tell your son that you do not already know. The process is fairly objective and is not a secret. 60% of your score is academic, 30% is Leadership and EC and then 10% is the CFA. Even if you max the ECA portion (which is almost impossible to do) you are still behind the pack based on the weighting. Your initial SAT score of 1100 is really close to the level of being disqualifying and while a 180 point increase is great it still puts you in the very average category of applicants. That one score made everything else almost irrelevant. Essays and interviews are more like pass/fail events. The may get you a few bonus points but they cannot overcome below average aspects of your application. The other main issue that you have is your MOC did not have an opening. Most high school applicants are competing for the one opening at the local MOC level. ROTC & JROTC have around 25 slots each year under the service connected category. You are competing with applicants who have probably have much higher scores and also have a successful semester of college. The academic weighting process gives these applicants a boost that is not available for high school applicants. Having a Senator's nomination is just as tricky. While it is good to get one of these, you are now competing against the entire state for one opening. It just takes one applicant with a 1500 SAT and you are out of the competition.

From a FFR point of view, we are here to help with basic questions on the process and help coach along the way. We do not have access to rankings or scoring but usually have enough experience to determine if an applicant has a better than average chance. We cannot get your kid into the academy no matter how we feel about the applicant. We can raise red flags if we feel the candidate does not have the proper motivation for service or has other issues that are not compatible with military service.

As others have said, once the cycle is over, you can reach out to the RC and they will usually share specifics where you feel short but it seems like you already know the answer
 
NWL, a single mention of FFR, total left turn into @FrauTeufelshund 's DS not being admitted to WP during this admission cycle. Ya gotta love SAF!

Frau – We can see that you are obviously hurting, as you keep coming back to reiterate your son’s story in a number of threads. This tends to happen this time of year on SAF, so we all understand. Time will close the wound and DS will move on to his fabulous ROTC option. You seem to be looking for the answer on why he wasn’t admitted. The reason is such a combination of different factors that you will probably never know. Will he reapply to WP? Some do and some don’t, as everyone’s situation is personal and unique. And sometimes it is more difficult for the parents to see WP slip away than it is for the candidate. I’ve seen it time and time again. I wish your son every happiness on his new and exciting path!
 
Another day that WP didnt say no. At this point figure we are waiting until after April 15 and May 1st. So I just tell the DS to put on his boots and go for a hike...cause either WP or his ROTC unit means that the boots need to be broken in. :) Plan B is solid with Deposits ready to go. Either way great advice from SAF along the way... solid ROTC unit at a great school near an Army base....and still the hopes of a WP appointment.
 
@FrauTeufelshund I apologize if I may have sounded a little harsh and it Is a hard time of year. My DD was one of those QNS a few years ago who also had a ROTC and track opportunity at a Div 1 school. She never gave up on her dream to attend at is graduating from West Point in a few weeks. Help your son understand the process and see where he can improve to reapply.
 
bober1171 said:
I can see why you and your DS would be a bit frustrated but with all due respect, how come your DS didn't do a quick google search on the average SAT scores? You could have compared them to the previous years class profiles or from college prep sites to gauge where you are compared to your competition. Also, and again with all due respect, I've had virtually 0 communication with my FFR from the slightly more competitive Northeast region and still somehow managed to get in (FFR didn't even send me an email about my offer of appointment and still hasn't after 2.5 weeks).
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Must be a Northeast Region thing my DD had virtually no communication with her FFR also even after many attempts via e-mail...she is still waiting on NWL. She learned more from this forum and received great advice here, nothing from FFR. Disappointed because it seems in other parts of the country candidates has great interactions with FFRs
 
SAHM2526 said:
Must be a Northeast Region thing my DD had virtually no communication with her FFR also even after many attempts via e-mail...she is still waiting on NWL. She learned more from this forum and received great advice here, nothing from FFR. Disappointed because it seems in other parts of the country candidates has great interactions with FFRs
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Did your DD have interview? I'm asking because my DS, Northeast region and still waiting on NWL, didn't have communication with FFR either nor interview.
 
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