Parent Question About JROTC Drill Team and Rifle Team

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JROTCSAI

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I'm a JROTC Instructor emailed me with this question. I would love some feedback. Keep in mind I Coach at the Masters Level in JROTC not that means a hill of beans.


This week another School parent told me some information which concerned me....and I actually don't know if it is true or false information.

The parent told me that in the eyes of significant ROTC scholarships and potential service academy appointments, drill team does NOT qualify as the sports fulfillment portion of admissions requirements for these programs. Additionally, the parent told me that drill team doesn't qualify as a lettering sport at School (re:jacket) and that is is actually simply part of GSA (General Sport Activity) club category and nothing more.

I was shocked to hear this, because I thought drill was a sport not only at RMA ...but also a sport viewed as equally as valuable as other sports in the eyes of ROTC scholarships and service academy appointments.

Since you are in charge of the Service Academy Preparation program at school, I'm here to ask you these questions. If you can help educate me and clarify these questions for me, I'd very much appreciate it.

We chose the school for the purposes of ensuring our son is qualified for strong ROTC scholarships and potential service academy appointments. We also made it very clear to the school back in October 2020 that our son must be doing an actual sport each season and he is not allowed to be doing GSA.

We also chose the school because we were told about the Service Academy Preparation program and that our son would he guided through that process every step of the way by the school.

He has dreamed of join the Air Force since he was 5 years old. He is also open to considering other branches. His grandfather (my dad) was a B-52 pilot for the USAF.

I'm sorry for taking up your time with this email. However, some words which another parent shared with me are now a concern to me.

Does drill team qualify as a sport for strong ROTC scholarships and service academy appointments? Does drill team count as a true lettering sport at RMA or is it considered a GSA club?

I have done many years of competitive marching band and so I admire drill and the honorable athleticism and pageantry it displays. It would be awesome if my son Jeffrey became a member of the US Army elite drill team. I think Jeffrey has great potential to develop as a soloist and compete in drill nationals. I think Kolaiah has great potential to help passionately build the drill team at the school.

But if drill team is frowned upon by strong (including full) ROTC scholarships and service academy appointments, then he will need to be doing a sport beginning this upcoming Fall 2021.

I'm honestly hoping that drill counts equally as the other sports. I'm writing you to ask for clarification of how drill team is viewed when working towards these applications.

Jeffrey also told me that the service academy prep boys are working out in the mornings but that he is not.

I'm confused about what is really going on, and I appreciate anything you can help me to understand and any answers you can provide.

I indeed have a teachable spirit and cooperative attitude. I'm not angry. I'm looking for answers to be sure we are doing what we fully intended to pursue with enrollment at the school. Jeffrey knew that before we enrolled and the admissions office and Mr. Smith knew this before we enrolled. Thanks in advance for taking time to clarify.
 
Of course there is actually NOT a specific sport requirement for the Service Academies but all of them value sports for a number of reasons.
The specific commentary about drill team being a sport is intriguing to me as I did years of drill team in the Sea Cadets and it was in no way something that I would equate with being a sport. It requires precision and discipline and even a degree of muscle but it is nothing like a competitive sport in my eyes and I believe in the eyes of Service Academy Admissions. The high school that the note discusses may give letters for drill but many high schools also give letters for band and choir but they are not considered sports by the service academies either.

It may be a hard pill to swallow but Marching Band is not considered to be a sport either. Both my son and I were Marching Band in High school but we also did sports. Among the attributes that Service Academies value most from sports is cardiovascular fitness/endurance and that is just not something that Marching Band does.

Bottom Line: whether this school starts giving letters for Drill Team or not, if this person's son is seeking a service academy or ROTC slot, I urge them to get into a "regular" sport. Not only will it be more easily recognized but it will help generate the level of fitness needed to get in and excel once admitted. If there is a group of academy prep folks working out in the morning then get off his butt and join them!

PS: The Army Drill team and soloist positions are enlisted and not congruent with service academy nor ROTC
 
JROTCSAI said:
I'm a JROTC Instructor emailed me with this question. I would love some feedback. Keep in mind I Coach at the Masters Level in JROTC not that means a hill of beans.


This week another School parent told me some information which concerned me....and I actually don't know if it is true or false information.

The parent told me that in the eyes of significant ROTC scholarships and potential service academy appointments, drill team does NOT qualify as the sports fulfillment portion of admissions requirements for these programs. Additionally, the parent told me that drill team doesn't qualify as a lettering sport at School (re:jacket) and that is is actually simply part of GSA (General Sport Activity) club category and nothing more.

I was shocked to hear this, because I thought drill was a sport not only at RMA ...but also a sport viewed as equally as valuable as other sports in the eyes of ROTC scholarships and service academy appointments.

Since you are in charge of the Service Academy Preparation program at school, I'm here to ask you these questions. If you can help educate me and clarify these questions for me, I'd very much appreciate it.

We chose the school for the purposes of ensuring our son is qualified for strong ROTC scholarships and potential service academy appointments. We also made it very clear to the school back in October 2020 that our son must be doing an actual sport each season and he is not allowed to be doing GSA.

We also chose the school because we were told about the Service Academy Preparation program and that our son would he guided through that process every step of the way by the school.

He has dreamed of join the Air Force since he was 5 years old. He is also open to considering other branches. His grandfather (my dad) was a B-52 pilot for the USAF.

I'm sorry for taking up your time with this email. However, some words which another parent shared with me are now a concern to me.

Does drill team qualify as a sport for strong ROTC scholarships and service academy appointments? Does drill team count as a true lettering sport at RMA or is it considered a GSA club?

I have done many years of competitive marching band and so I admire drill and the honorable athleticism and pageantry it displays. It would be awesome if my son Jeffrey became a member of the US Army elite drill team. I think Jeffrey has great potential to develop as a soloist and compete in drill nationals. I think Kolaiah has great potential to help passionately build the drill team at the school.

But if drill team is frowned upon by strong (including full) ROTC scholarships and service academy appointments, then he will need to be doing a sport beginning this upcoming Fall 2021.

I'm honestly hoping that drill counts equally as the other sports. I'm writing you to ask for clarification of how drill team is viewed when working towards these applications.

Jeffrey also told me that the service academy prep boys are working out in the mornings but that he is not.

I'm confused about what is really going on, and I appreciate anything you can help me to understand and any answers you can provide.

I indeed have a teachable spirit and cooperative attitude. I'm not angry. I'm looking for answers to be sure we are doing what we fully intended to pursue with enrollment at the school. Jeffrey knew that before we enrolled and the admissions office and Mr. Smith knew this before we enrolled. Thanks in advance for taking time to clarify.
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My son was on the drill team (Armed and Unarmed), color guard, exhibition, and raiders for the entire four years. He was awarded a Varsity letter for participating in JROTC in general not just drill but the school just recently decided to award that this year. That letter did not count on his app. as it had been submitted by the time it was awarded. Luckily he had other varsity sports under his belt already. Agree with you drill can be very demanding especially exhibition.
 
OldRetSWO said:
Of course there is actually NOT a specific sport requirement for the Service Academies but all of them value sports for a number of reasons.
The specific commentary about drill team being a sport is intriguing to me as I did years of drill team in the Sea Cadets and it was in no way something that I would equate with being a sport. It requires precision and discipline and even a degree of muscle but it is nothing like a competitive sport in my eyes and I believe in the eyes of Service Academy Admissions. The high school that the note discusses may give letters for drill but many high schools also give letters for band and choir but they are not considered sports by the service academies either.

It may be a hard pill to swallow but Marching Band is not considered to be a sport either. Both my son and I were Marching Band in High school but we also did sports. Among the attributes that Service Academies value most from sports is cardiovascular fitness/endurance and that is just not something that Marching Band does.

Bottom Line: whether this school starts giving letters for Drill Team or not, if this person's son is seeking a service academy or ROTC slot, I urge them to get into a "regular" sport. Not only will it be more easily recognized but it will help generate the level of fitness needed to get in and excel once admitted. If there is a group of academy prep folks working out in the morning then get off his butt and join them!

PS: The Army Drill team and soloist positions are enlisted and not congruent with service academy nor ROTC
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Participation in Drill, Cheer, Marching Band, and/or other Fine, Visual, or Performing Arts is recognized, but the KEY is to get into a formal leadership position with those activities you have been involved with for at least 2 or more (preferred) years. Positions where your peers or adult supervision put you in that position. Drill team or squad leader, 1st chair or principal on an instrument, section leader or drum major in marching band, lead in a school play, stage manager, stuff like that. Yes, WP likes to see participation and a letter in at least one sport. They also recognize serious club level participation too for stuff not available in high schools. If someone is struggling with formal sports participation, I tell them to try to participate in a "no cut" sport like cross country and/or track. Unfortunately, advice like this comes too late for juniors that need to beef up their backgrounds.
 
JROTCSAI said:
I'm a JROTC Instructor emailed me with this question. I would love some feedback. Keep in mind I Coach at the Masters Level in JROTC not that means a hill of beans.


This week another School parent told me some information which concerned me....and I actually don't know if it is true or false information.

The parent told me that in the eyes of significant ROTC scholarships and potential service academy appointments, drill team does NOT qualify as the sports fulfillment portion of admissions requirements for these programs. Additionally, the parent told me that drill team doesn't qualify as a lettering sport at School (re:jacket) and that is is actually simply part of GSA (General Sport Activity) club category and nothing more.

I was shocked to hear this, because I thought drill was a sport not only at RMA ...but also a sport viewed as equally as valuable as other sports in the eyes of ROTC scholarships and service academy appointments.

Since you are in charge of the Service Academy Preparation program at school, I'm here to ask you these questions. If you can help educate me and clarify these questions for me, I'd very much appreciate it.

We chose the school for the purposes of ensuring our son is qualified for strong ROTC scholarships and potential service academy appointments. We also made it very clear to the school back in October 2020 that our son must be doing an actual sport each season and he is not allowed to be doing GSA.

We also chose the school because we were told about the Service Academy Preparation program and that our son would he guided through that process every step of the way by the school.

He has dreamed of join the Air Force since he was 5 years old. He is also open to considering other branches. His grandfather (my dad) was a B-52 pilot for the USAF.

I'm sorry for taking up your time with this email. However, some words which another parent shared with me are now a concern to me.

Does drill team qualify as a sport for strong ROTC scholarships and service academy appointments? Does drill team count as a true lettering sport at RMA or is it considered a GSA club?

I have done many years of competitive marching band and so I admire drill and the honorable athleticism and pageantry it displays. It would be awesome if my son Jeffrey became a member of the US Army elite drill team. I think Jeffrey has great potential to develop as a soloist and compete in drill nationals. I think Kolaiah has great potential to help passionately build the drill team at the school.

But if drill team is frowned upon by strong (including full) ROTC scholarships and service academy appointments, then he will need to be doing a sport beginning this upcoming Fall 2021.

I'm honestly hoping that drill counts equally as the other sports. I'm writing you to ask for clarification of how drill team is viewed when working towards these applications.

Jeffrey also told me that the service academy prep boys are working out in the mornings but that he is not.

I'm confused about what is really going on, and I appreciate anything you can help me to understand and any answers you can provide.

I indeed have a teachable spirit and cooperative attitude. I'm not angry. I'm looking for answers to be sure we are doing what we fully intended to pursue with enrollment at the school. Jeffrey knew that before we enrolled and the admissions office and Mr. Smith knew this before we enrolled. Thanks in advance for taking time to clarify.
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Straight answer: Drill team, rifle team, color guard, band, etc are not considered sports in the eyes of service academies or ROTC scholarships.

They place extremely high value in varsity sports involvement, leadership, and excellence(football, soccer, track, etc).

If this parent and her son are looking for a service Academy, start a sport now and move your way up to varsity
 
Along those lines, would Riflery also be viewed more as an ECA? Obviously lacking in physicality, but it is a sanctioned varsity sport by the state athletic association.
 
Sean17 said:
They place extremely high value in varsity sports involvement, leadership, and excellence(football, soccer, track, etc).
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Well, the Service Academies can decide how they value things, but here is the perspective of a parent whose DS was very involved in both baseball and NJROTC.

IMHO, the leadership experience a varsity team captain is miniscule compared to the leadership experience one gets as - - for example - - Battalion Commander of a 200+ sized NJROTC unit. First, leadership is taught in the classroom intensively in NS4. Second, the cadets get increasing leadership experience each year. Running a 200+ unit with a large budget that competes nationally is a WAY bigger job than being captain of a sports team. Also, JROTC involves athletic competition and many units do orienteering (basically 5K though the woods with map and compass.) Now, not every kid who does JROTC fully participates in all the athletic and drill competitions or attains a leadership position and just doing the minimum in JROTC to get out of having to take PE, will not have much value IMHO.

I believe - - and maybe the service academies don't agree - - that a person can get A LOT more out of JROTC and also be a physically fit stud, than they can by playing a sport. My DS played baseball at a high level all year round (we are in the South.) Team captains in sports sometimes have very little in the way of leadership responsibility, but that varies depending on the coach. Often, a kid become team captain merely by being the best athlete a the team and then does little more than lead by example. I have seen sports team captains who couldn’t lead a kindergarten class to candy.

So, I have seen both sides. I am sure those people whose kids were team captains in sports and did not do JROTC will strongly disagree with me.
 
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NJROTC-CC said:
Well, the Service Academies can decide how they value things, but here is the perspective of a parent whose DS was very involved in both baseball and NJROTC.

IMHO, the leadership experience a varsity team captain is miniscule compared to the leadership experience one gets as - - for example - - Battalion Commander of a 200+ sized NJROTC unit. First, leadership is taught in the classroom intensively in NS4. Second, the cadets get increasing leadership experience each year. Running a 200+ unit with a large budget that competes nationally is a WAY bigger job than being captain of a sports team. Also, JROTC involves athletic competition and many units do orienteering (basically 5K though the woods with map and compass.) Now, not every kid who does JROTC fully participates in all the athletic and drill competitions or attains a leadership position and just doing the minimum in JROTC will not have much value IMHO.

I believe - - and maybe the service academies don't agree - - that a person can get A LOT more out of JROTC and also be a physically fit stud, than they can by playing a sport. My DS played baseball at a high level all year round (we are in the South.) Team captains in sports sometimes have very little in the way of leadership responsibility, but that varies depending on the coach. Often, a kid become team captain merely by being the best athlete a the team and then does little more than lead by example. So, I have seen both sides. I am sure those people whose kids were team captains in sports and did not do JROTC will strongly disagree with me. But I have seen both sides.
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I completely agree. I’m the executive officer of a brigade of 400 cadets. I’m also the captain of 3 varsity teams. For the academies and ROTC, there’s an element of “checking in he boxes”, where you need that varsity sport if you want to be highly competitive. I don’t think I would’ve received a NROTC scholarship if I wasn’t in a varsity sport
 
JROTCSAI said:
I'm a JROTC Instructor emailed me with this question. I would love some feedback. Keep in mind I Coach at the Masters Level in JROTC not that means a hill of beans.


This week another School parent told me some information which concerned me....and I actually don't know if it is true or false information.

The parent told me that in the eyes of significant ROTC scholarships and potential service academy appointments, drill team does NOT qualify as the sports fulfillment portion of admissions requirements for these programs. Additionally, the parent told me that drill team doesn't qualify as a lettering sport at School (re:jacket) and that is is actually simply part of GSA (General Sport Activity) club category and nothing more.

I was shocked to hear this, because I thought drill was a sport not only at RMA ...but also a sport viewed as equally as valuable as other sports in the eyes of ROTC scholarships and service academy appointments.

Since you are in charge of the Service Academy Preparation program at school, I'm here to ask you these questions. If you can help educate me and clarify these questions for me, I'd very much appreciate it.

We chose the school for the purposes of ensuring our son is qualified for strong ROTC scholarships and potential service academy appointments. We also made it very clear to the school back in October 2020 that our son must be doing an actual sport each season and he is not allowed to be doing GSA.

We also chose the school because we were told about the Service Academy Preparation program and that our son would he guided through that process every step of the way by the school.

He has dreamed of join the Air Force since he was 5 years old. He is also open to considering other branches. His grandfather (my dad) was a B-52 pilot for the USAF.

I'm sorry for taking up your time with this email. However, some words which another parent shared with me are now a concern to me.

Does drill team qualify as a sport for strong ROTC scholarships and service academy appointments? Does drill team count as a true lettering sport at RMA or is it considered a GSA club?

I have done many years of competitive marching band and so I admire drill and the honorable athleticism and pageantry it displays. It would be awesome if my son Jeffrey became a member of the US Army elite drill team. I think Jeffrey has great potential to develop as a soloist and compete in drill nationals. I think Kolaiah has great potential to help passionately build the drill team at the school.

But if drill team is frowned upon by strong (including full) ROTC scholarships and service academy appointments, then he will need to be doing a sport beginning this upcoming Fall 2021.

I'm honestly hoping that drill counts equally as the other sports. I'm writing you to ask for clarification of how drill team is viewed when working towards these applications.

Jeffrey also told me that the service academy prep boys are working out in the mornings but that he is not.

I'm confused about what is really going on, and I appreciate anything you can help me to understand and any answers you can provide.

I indeed have a teachable spirit and cooperative attitude. I'm not angry. I'm looking for answers to be sure we are doing what we fully intended to pursue with enrollment at the school. Jeffrey knew that before we enrolled and the admissions office and Mr. Smith knew this before we enrolled. Thanks in advance for taking time to clarify.
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I unfortunately wish I had the answer for you but we are still scratching our heads about DS's situation.

My DS is currently in his 4th year of JROTC, and very involved in JROTC (one of the oldest in the nation, and even have the only "skate color guard" in the country where colors are presented on the ice on skates before hockey games and skating show). The St Louis Blues and the Detroit Redwings got to play a pre-season game our our little rink because our community won Kraft Hockeyville 2019 and my DS got to skate in the American flag. He is currently Deputy Battalion Commander. He has been on varsity football, hockey, track, has a 3.89 GPA, 24 college credits, a great CFA, a service connected nom and senatorial nom, plenty of volunteer hours, class president, NHS and a 1280 on the SAT.

He was awarded a 4 year national AROTC scholarship at the first board last October (for which we are super grateful). He was 3Q and on the NWL at USMA early on, but received a TWE anyway. My kid had varsity sports galore and JROTC involvement but I can not say what secured the ROTC scholarship or what lead to the TWE from West Point. So basically my kid had a strong application and it worked for ROTC scholarship but not for West Point.

If your kid is passionate about drill team, they should stick with it. (If the school offers track or cross country and your DS has time for it, that probably wouldn't hurt either, as they will get in shape from it whether it counts big or not.) What goes on in Admissions and how they choose one candidate over another will remain a big mystery anyway.

Many candidates on this forum have received appointments at the SAs even without sports. Good luck to your DS! Keep the faith, do not get focused on only a single option or path! There are many different routes lead to the end goal!
 
My DS did Drill team in JROTC, and ended up also doing it at WP, commanding during his Firstie year. He loved it. He worked countless hours on it both in high school and at WP.

To the point of the thread, it did NOT count as athletics in his application to West Point. He did not play varsity sports in high school and it hurt him on gaining his appointment( he ended up being a sponsored prep-school candidate and it was because of this aspect of his overall resume.) I grew up playing sports and observed his effort and work in the activity being very, very similar to that required in the team sports I played. I was extremely frustrated with it not counting as athletics, but that's how the cookie crumbles. The teamwork and leadership developed , however, served him very well, regardless of how the activity is evaluated in the application process.

Your son can still gain an appointment with having played varsity sports. The odds are much longer though.
 
OldRetSWO said:
Of course there is actually NOT a specific sport requirement for the Service Academies but all of them value sports for a number of reasons.
The specific commentary about drill team being a sport is intriguing to me as I did years of drill team in the Sea Cadets and it was in no way something that I would equate with being a sport. It requires precision and discipline and even a degree of muscle but it is nothing like a competitive sport in my eyes and I believe in the eyes of Service Academy Admissions. The high school that the note discusses may give letters for drill but many high schools also give letters for band and choir but they are not considered sports by the service academies either.
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Drill team with rifles is every bit as athletic as golf ever thought of being. Tennis too. Is it as rigorous as the Big 3? Of course not. My biggest beef with the evaluation of the activity overall was that the candidates take a physical fitness assessment, so if the other characteristics of team sports/ athletics are being demonstrated in Drill team, why is it excluded? Because it isn't cardio based?. With comparison to athletics, they are demonstrating commitment to a team activity, requiring practice activities, leadership, and developing towards expectations; then they are fulfilling the qualities being sought after in this regard.

It's splitting hairs, IMHO. I felt like it was an inaccurate evaluation of the activity in relation to what some activities under the "athletics" umbrella enjoyed. Oh well. If it means enough to ya, you'll find a way to make it happen. Regardless.
 
FlyBoy1993 said:
Drill team with rifles is every bit as athletic as golf ever thought of being. Tennis too. Is it as rigorous as the Big 3? Of course not. My biggest beef with the evaluation of the activity overall was that the candidates take a physical fitness assessment, so if the other characteristics of team sports/ athletics are being demonstrated in Drill team, why is it excluded? Because it isn't cardio based?. With comparison to athletics, they are demonstrating commitment to a team activity, requiring practice activities, leadership, and developing towards expectations; then they are fulfilling the qualities being sought after in this regard.

It's splitting hairs, IMHO. I felt like it was an inaccurate evaluation of the activity in relation to what some activities under the "athletics" umbrella enjoyed. Oh well. If it means enough to ya, you'll find a way to make it happen. Regardless.
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I won't argue with you about golf or bowling for that matter. Tennis is quite a different story in terms of the cardiovascular fitness required to be a competitive tennis player. You are absolutely entitled to your own opinion as am I. Just recognize that I am someone who did Drill Team for years and found that it was quite a different experience from that I had from an athletic team.
 
NJROTC-CC said:
Well, the Service Academies can decide how they value things, but here is the perspective of a parent whose DS was very involved in both baseball and NJROTC.

IMHO, the leadership experience a varsity team captain is miniscule compared to the leadership experience one gets as - - for example - - Battalion Commander of a 200+ sized NJROTC unit. First, leadership is taught in the classroom intensively in NS4. Second, the cadets get increasing leadership experience each year. Running a 200+ unit with a large budget that competes nationally is a WAY bigger job than being captain of a sports team. Also, JROTC involves athletic competition and many units do orienteering (basically 5K though the woods with map and compass.) Now, not every kid who does JROTC fully participates in all the athletic and drill competitions or attains a leadership position and just doing the minimum in JROTC to get out of having to take PE, will not have much value IMHO.

I believe - - and maybe the service academies don't agree - - that a person can get A LOT more out of JROTC and also be a physically fit stud, than they can by playing a sport. My DS played baseball at a high level all year round (we are in the South.) Team captains in sports sometimes have very little in the way of leadership responsibility, but that varies depending on the coach. Often, a kid become team captain merely by being the best athlete a the team and then does little more than lead by example. I have seen sports team captains who couldn’t lead a kindergarten class to candy.

So, I have seen both sides. I am sure those people whose kids were team captains in sports and did not do JROTC will strongly disagree with me.
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Agree 100 percent!!!
 
To be fair, my complaint is NOT that the activity didn't count towards DS' whole candidate score, but rather that it is excluded from 'sports.' Again, there is a PFT for demonstrating physical fitness. After that, it's about practice, execution, teamwork, and competition. Sorry for beating a dead horse.
I do believe it held value both as a demonstration of being part of a team and exhibiting discipline. The leadership position as commander was also important. If OP's son just did it 4 years but was just a regular member, then he had better excel at (multiple) other things. I don't think it is correct at all to say Drill Team and JROTC itself don't hold value in a candidate's application. They absolutely do.
 
FlyBoy1993 said:
To be fair, my complaint is NOT that the activity didn't count towards DS' whole candidate score, but rather that it is excluded from 'sports.' Again, there is a PFT for demonstrating physical fitness. After that, it's about practice, execution, teamwork, and competition. Sorry for beating a dead horse.
I do believe it held value both as a demonstration of being part of a team and exhibiting discipline. The leadership position as commander was also important. If OP's son just did it 4 years but was just a regular member, then he had better excel at (multiple) other things. I don't think it is correct at all to say Drill Team and JROTC itself don't hold value in a candidate's application. They absolutely do.
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I don't know who said that JROTC or Drill Team don't hold value in an application, I said that in my experience, they are not considered to be "sports" but they are certainly activities and leadership in them is definitely leadership experience.
 
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