ROTC - Attrition over 4 years - Will you make it through?

USMAROTCFamily

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As it is becoming decision-time for ROTC scholarship winners to make their final college choices on where they will use their ROTC scholarship (or if they will use it at all), it is important to think through many "what if" situations. How many go in thinking they won't stay the course and make it through? What if you go and don't like it? What if you go and can't meet the physical fitness requirements? What if you can't make weight the commission weight standards? What if you make a mistake with under-age drinking and get caught and kicked out? What if you can't pass all of the required courses? What if you are injured in a car accident and can no longer participate? What if you develop a disease that will not allow you stay in the program (MS, Cancer, etc.)? Most go in thinking it won't happen to them, right?

What if you don't like it after the first year, you think, "No problem, I can get out now with no commitment, right?" However, what if you can no longer afford the college you chose if you don't have the ROTC scholarship? Will your plan be to transfer to a different college that you considered when you were a senior in high school? Will the colleges that had offered you a merit scholarship to go there as a freshman, still offer you a scholarship as Sophomore transfer student? What would your back up plan be?

Some people would say, don't have a back-up plan, as that means you are not committed and you are setting yourself up to fail and giving yourself an "out." Some people believe that you should never choose to use an ROTC scholarship at a college that you couldn't afford it without. Only you can make the decisions about what you would do, but go in with your eyes wide open.

DD got a NROTC Scholarship to go to Notre Dame. For her, this was her opportunity to go to her dream school, which we not have paid for, had she not had the NROTC scholarship. We did not qualify for financial aid, and the civilian merit scholarships she had would still have left a large sum of the $70k/year tab. We did not have the discretionary income to cover the difference and we flat-out refused to take on large loans to cover the costs. We were very clear with her that if she did not make it through NROTC, that she would have to leave ND and go to our local state university or another college where she could get other large scholarships as a transfer student (which are not easy to come by). She absolutely knew all of this before committing. She also had several full-ride, merit scholarships to several colleges, not tied to ROTC, so she did not HAVE to do ROTC or commit to the military in order to pay for college. After weighing her options, she felt that she really did want to serve in the military and did want to take the risk to do NROTC at a college she loved - ND.

All worked out for her and she graduated from Notre Dame in 4 years with her Mechanical Engineering degree and her Navy commission in hand. It was a demanding schedule with an average of 18.5 credits every single semester, many NROTC requirements, tough engineering classes, being a RA senior year, and the normal college-kid life. She loved ND. We loved ND. ND has a top-notch NROTC program. The University loves ND and fully commits to the program there. It was truly wonderful. But here are the sobering facts - Her NROTC class had 22 Midshipman make it through the 4 years. to commissioning. There were 32 who started the program with most of them on a NROTC scholarship. That means only 68% finished the program. The attrition came from several sources over the 4 years: 1 went to USNA (she did commission from there), 1 left to join the Seminary to become a priest, 2 who didn't pick up scholarships, left the program, 2 sustained injuries that wouldn't allow them to be commissioned, 1 couldn't pass PFT, 1 couldn't make the weight standard and 2 decided the military was not for them. There are other college ROTC programs that have higher attrition rates than ND has.

This is not being said to scare anybody at all, but you must know what you (or your kid) is really getting into and know what you/they will do if they don't make it through. Don't assume "It won't happen to me (or your DS/DD)." because things do happen. Just have a plan and think things through before making your final decision. Best wishes to all of you!
 
This brings up a good point that the services ought to remedy. They should publish attrition statistics/commissioning rates every year on 4-year scholarship recipients, similar to how schools publish graduation rates.
NROTC units do gather that information and send it to higher headquarters. I am guessing that information is posted on various Navy sites but I haven't done the google work.

We also track new accessions and attrition by ethnic background and gender in order to check our progress in attaining a more diverse officer corps. For GWU, we have an attrition rate that hovers around 20-22%. By contrast, the university lists its 4 year graduation rate at 73%.

I would add anecdotally that the intent for NROTC is not to simply pump people through nor is it the intent to arbitrarily toss people out. But, if you can't pass a PRT or PFT, injure yourself to the point that you cannot perform your duties, or you can't handle the academics of college, then it should not surprise anyone when you get asked to leave. If it was easy, everyone would sign up.
 
Something to consider for sure. Interesting that only 2 chose service wasn't for them...really 3 if you count the one that entered seminary. You really don't know what they will do or not do or how they will change on their own for the first time. My DS does know what his options are and are not without ROTC. Similar to life though. Some sink, some flounder about ineffectively for a while and some swim like crazy.
 
NROTC units do gather that information and send it to higher headquarters. I am guessing that information is posted on various Navy sites but I haven't done the google work.
I'm not at all surprised you track the data at unit level and report it up (I figured you did), but I wouldn't count on it being readily accessible to the public. I find that when it comes to ROTC (as distinct from the service academies), very little is.
 
I am not sure attrition rates would be meaningful to applicants.
It should be meaningful to both parents and applicants.
It shows anything could potentially pop up and derail their plan of paying for a high cost tuition at school if they would be separated from ROTC. Or separated from an SA. The examples listed by OP are meant to be thought provoking.
People must always have alternative plans and these type of conversations will hopefully open the eyes of some parents and applicants to the reality they face.
Sometimes the obvious is not so obvious to others, and that’s ok. SAF is here to help.
 
As it is becoming decision-time for ROTC scholarship winners to make their final college choices on where they will use their ROTC scholarship (or if they will use it at all), it is important to think through many "what if" situations. How many go in thinking they won't stay the course and make it through? What if you go and don't like it? What if you go and can't meet the physical fitness requirements? What if you can't make weight the commission weight standards? What if you make a mistake with under-age drinking and get caught and kicked out? What if you can't pass all of the required courses? What if you are injured in a car accident and can no longer participate? What if you develop a disease that will not allow you stay in the program (MS, Cancer, etc.)? Most go in thinking it won't happen to them, right?

What if you don't like it after the first year, you think, "No problem, I can get out now with no commitment, right?" However, what if you can no longer afford the college you chose if you don't have the ROTC scholarship? Will your plan be to transfer to a different college that you considered when you were a senior in high school? Will the colleges that had offered you a merit scholarship to go there as a freshman, still offer you a scholarship as Sophomore transfer student? What would your back up plan be?

Some people would say, don't have a back-up plan, as that means you are not committed and you are setting yourself up to fail and giving yourself an "out." Some people believe that you should never choose to use an ROTC scholarship at a college that you couldn't afford it without. Only you can make the decisions about what you would do, but go in with your eyes wide open.

DD got a NROTC Scholarship to go to Notre Dame. For her, this was her opportunity to go to her dream school, which we not have paid for, had she not had the NROTC scholarship. We did not qualify for financial aid, and the civilian merit scholarships she had would still have left a large sum of the $70k/year tab. We did not have the discretionary income to cover the difference and we flat-out refused to take on large loans to cover the costs. We were very clear with her that if she did not make it through NROTC, that she would have to leave ND and go to our local state university or another college where she could get other large scholarships as a transfer student (which are not easy to come by). She absolutely knew all of this before committing. She also had several full-ride, merit scholarships to several colleges, not tied to ROTC, so she did not HAVE to do ROTC or commit to the military in order to pay for college. After weighing her options, she felt that she really did want to serve in the military and did want to take the risk to do NROTC at a college she loved - ND.

All worked out for her and she graduated from Notre Dame in 4 years with her Mechanical Engineering degree and her Navy commission in hand. It was a demanding schedule with an average of 18.5 credits every single semester, many NROTC requirements, tough engineering classes, being a RA senior year, and the normal college-kid life. She loved ND. We loved ND. ND has a top-notch NROTC program. The University loves ND and fully commits to the program there. It was truly wonderful. But here are the sobering facts - Her NROTC class had 22 Midshipman make it through the 4 years. to commissioning. There were 32 who started the program with most of them on a NROTC scholarship. That means only 68% finished the program. The attrition came from several sources over the 4 years: 1 went to USNA (she did commission from there), 1 left to join the Seminary to become a priest, 2 who didn't pick up scholarships, left the program, 2 sustained injuries that wouldn't allow them to be commissioned, 1 couldn't pass PFT, 1 couldn't make the weight standard and 2 decided the military was not for them. There are other college ROTC programs that have higher attrition rates than ND has.

This is not being said to scare anybody at all, but you must know what you (or your kid) is really getting into and know what you/they will do if they don't make it through. Don't assume "It won't happen to me (or your DS/DD)." because things do happen. Just have a plan and think things through before making your final decision. Best wishes to all of you!
Moments of bliss: the meager monthly stipend is enough to buy two large pizza and 2-liter Soda.

That’s what I remember most of happy times.
 
Not being able to pass a PT test or make height/weight standards? It's not a secret that these are basics of military service...
This reminds me of a story DS told. At one point they had a 1/c who was not making weight and was close to not being able to commission due to this. It all worked out for him and he was able to commission. At their annual awards there was an award for "Hardest Working Member of the Unit"; The winner was "Midn 1/c _______'s shirt buttons"
 
I am not sure attrition rates would be meaningful to applicants.
My DS was most interested in SMCs, but the AROTC application required him to include 2 in-state publics so we went to visit one of the options. We actually received a tremendous amount of information about the ROTC program there which was appreciated. However, the very poor attrition rate that was shared with us really made my son feel like this school wouldn't be a great fit for him. Sure, we already knew that because he really wanted an SMA or SA. Still, the attrition rate made me think either there were issues with the battalion or the type of students this school attracted weren't going to be son's people. If he wasn't so sure about the SMC this information would have been really helpful in choosing between other schools (I think).
 
I appreciate the contrasting opinions but I still hold that attrition rates are not meaningful for NROTC applicants. In the example @USMAROTCFamily provided, 8 out of 10 were DOR (yes, I include the PFT and weight failure in that total as personal choices). Dropping out is a unique part of the ROTC program process. It can happen without penalty after one-year or with penalty afterwards. Two students sustained injuries where they couldn't commission - THAT seems high but not enough to be meaningful to applicants.

Unit leadership changes over constantly and typically a 4-year period will have two regimes. So, even if you had attrition rates, how applicable would they be to make a judgement on the unit?
Just have a plan and think things through before making your final decision.

People must always have alternative plans and these type of conversations will hopefully open the eyes of some parents and applicants to the reality they face.

I do agree with @USMAROTCFamily and @shock-n-awe that the student and their parents should understand the situation. DOR, contract, potential issues that could arise, payback, etc. Totally agree. There are no guarantees in life and families need to discuss, understand, and plan for what could happen.

I am happy being on an island here and certainly not invested enough to get into a debate. Others are entitled to their opinions and I respect that. Since no attrition rates are readily available to the public, this is all just academic anyway.
 
My DS was most interested in SMCs, but the AROTC application required him to include 2 in-state publics so we went to visit one of the options. We actually received a tremendous amount of information about the ROTC program there which was appreciated. However, the very poor attrition rate that was shared with us really made my son feel like this school wouldn't be a great fit for him. Sure, we already knew that because he really wanted an SMA or SA. Still, the attrition rate made me think either there were issues with the battalion or the type of students this school attracted weren't going to be son's people. If he wasn't so sure about the SMC this information would have been really helpful in choosing between other schools (I think).
You said "the AROTC application required him to include 2 in-state publics". I didn't notice that or my DS didn't tell me. He filled the five spots with all private engineering schools in the north. Our state doesn't have as many choices in term of my son's preferred major.
 
You said "the AROTC application required him to include 2 in-state publics". I didn't notice that or my DS didn't tell me. He filled the five spots with all private engineering schools in the north. Our state doesn't have as many choices in term of my son's preferred major.
I honestly didn’t look very closely at the application. I do have the Insiders Guide to the Army ROTC Scholarship book and it says you must choose between 1 to 7 schools. At least 1 must be in your home state. The application process requires that 3 of your 7 be public colleges. If selecting fewer than 6 schools, then 2 of the 5 must be public. 3 or fewer then 1 must be public. I assume that’s to give them some flexibility around cost. My son was awarded to his top 2 choices (both private) and his 4th choice (in-state public). #3 was OOS public but he wasn’t offered to there.
 
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