ROTC Disenrollment recourse

S

Southerngal

New Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2022
Messages
9
My DS is currently in ROTC. He is a jr. Went to field training last summer. Finished top 50%. He was supposed to contract last semester but because of personality conflicts with the major did not. He was then supposed to contract this semester, came back from break and they told him he was out. He has a 3.1gpa, top 3% of fitness, was even given a job PFTO for this semester, and they are releasing him. He has volunteered for many things, has been coined, put on the dining in without a hitch, but has butted heads, respectfully, with the major, who has not had a squeaky clean career himself. This is what he was working towards his college career, joined on his own later and fought to catch up get the classes he needed. He has held As in all aerospace classes. The major has told him things like he doesn’t like how he sits in class and it’s not that he doesn’t like him as a person (whatever that means). Is there any recourse for him? Or has the personality conflict ruined his chances of commissioning? We are familiar with the military, but I’m not sure what to suggest to him next?
 
The Major as in XO of an NROTC unit? What was the excuse of being dropped?

I am confused, he did summer training before being contracted? I have never heard of that.

If he never got a contract to begin with there are many reasons why someone who think they might be competitive for a 2 yr scholarship is not picked up; these reasons are national level ones as there is a board that loooks at all applicants
 
I cannot answer your question, but it is the reality of the military. If your DS was a CPT in the Army and that Major was in his rating chain then it could really negatively affect his career. Learning to get along with all different types of personalities is part of the job. There are some bosses that are terribly hard to work with and others that are a joy. I am sorry this happened and hope you can get things sorted out.
 
Southerngal said:
...Went to field training last summer. Finished top 50%...
Click to expand...
So average then?

Southerngal said:
...He was supposed to contract last semester but because of personality conflicts with the major did not...
Click to expand...
"Major"? Are we talking about some ROTC student leader? Does that student leader actually have a lot of "pull" in ROTC contract decisions?
Not trying to be glib here, just asking the question. I know very little about this ROTC stuff and am trying to learn.

As for "personality conflicts", I wish I had a nickel for every time I had to deal with that in the military. When you're low in the pecking order, there shouldn't be any "personality conflicts". If there are, you are obviously doing it wrong.
 
Sounds like AFROTC with the mention of Field Training??? Is he interested in Army ROTC? Maybe send him to talk to them if they are on his campus.
 
milmomsomeday said:
Sounds like AFROTC with the mention of Field Training??? Is he interested in Army ROTC? Maybe send him to talk to them if they are on his campus.
Click to expand...
that is what I thought, but a few answers are about NROTC.
To me bottom line he has to evaluate his goals vs. his options. Where there is a will there is a way.
It is implied that the parent is looking for an escalation path for the cadet.
 
I thought if they made it to field training (AF ROTC) then that was an EA agreement right there?
 
Doesn't sound like NROTC, so I have next to know knowledge on AFROTC or AROTC processes. That being said, I believe most AFROTC have at least an O5 level commander. NROTC has a Professional Review Board process which allows for a Midshipman to bring forth documentary evidence and character witnesses to prove their case if they feel they have been unfairly treated. The process is very similar to an Administrative Board. I would be surprised if there isn't a similar process at work here.

Another consideration, but again, this is a guess. Once in a while the service branches over access, meaning they took in too many people at the front end and need to let some of their scholarship people walk away without a commitment. The preferred way to handle that is to let people who are the newest to activate or be offered a scholarship to use that option first.

Trying to read the tea leaves here, but if DS has "A"s in aerospace and a 3.1 overall, then there were some C's involved somewhere along the line. Does not really matter in the long run if everything else is tracking. In terms of recourse, since it does not sound as though the scholarship was contracted, there are generally limited options short of writing a congressional representative.

Hopefully, someone with knowledge of the AFROTC process can help more.
 
Sounds like AFROTC to me as well. Not sure about AFROTC, but if this was NROTC, the student would have a PRB (Professional Review Board) before being disenrolled. The notice for the PRB would state the reasons for the hearing and the student would have an opportunity to answer to the charges. There are attorneys that specialize in this area if you run a search for them. Not sure if AFROTC has a similar process.

I agree with some of the other observations. He was doing something right to get picked up for SFT, but finishing top 50% is average, as is a 3.1 GPA. "Personality conflicts" in this setting are on the junior (student) to resolve and navigate. Bringing up the Major's career has no bearing here. He is an officer (XO?) who is charged with training and evaluating your DS' potential as a future officer.
 
THParent said:
So average then?


"Major"? Are we talking about some ROTC student leader? Does that student leader actually have a lot of "pull" in ROTC contract decisions?
Not trying to be glib here, just asking the question. I know very little about this ROTC stuff and am trying to learn.

As for "personality conflicts", I wish I had a nickel for every time I had to deal with that in the military. When you're low in the pecking order, there shouldn't be any "personality conflicts". If there are, you are obviously doing it wrong.
Click to expand...
No. The Major (AD) in the rank structures. As a parent, completely understand what you are saying about personality conflicts. I am here to help him sort this out, but some things they have to learn for themselves. It’s just a pretty steep price to pay.
 
FastFood44 said:
The Major as in XO of an NROTC unit? What was the excuse of being dropped?

I am confused, he did summer training before being contracted? I have never heard of that.

If he never got a contract to begin with there are many reasons why someone who think they might be competitive for a 2 yr scholarship is not picked up; these reasons are national level ones as there is a board that loooks at all applicants
Click to expand...
Southerngal said:
My DS is currently in ROTC. He is a jr. Went to field training last summer. Finished top 50%. He was supposed to contract last semester but because of personality conflicts with the major did not. He was then supposed to contract this semester, came back from break and they told him he was out. He has a 3.1gpa, top 3% of fitness, was even given a job PFTO for this semester, and they are releasing him. He has volunteered for many things, has been coined, put on the dining in without a hitch, but has butted heads, respectfully, with the major, who has not had a squeaky clean career himself. This is what he was working towards his college career, joined on his own later and fought to catch up get the classes he needed. He has held As in all aerospace classes. The major has told him things like he doesn’t like how he sits in class and it’s not that he doesn’t like him as a person (whatever that means). Is there any recourse for him? Or has the personality conflict ruined his chances of commissioning? We are familiar with the military, but I’m not sure what to suggest to him next?
Click to expand...
AFROTC. Sorry for not metioning that earlier.
 
Did they tell him why they are releasing him? With all of the difficulty that ensued last spring in obtaining a summer field training slot, I would think there must be a concrete, documented reason that they are cutting him now instead of then since he's now (presumably) a second semester academic junior, which is pretty late in the game.

In any event, he should ascertain from his cadre what effect, if any, this will have on his ability to seek alternate sources of commission. Could he still apply for AF OTS after graduating?

Also, I would join in the recommendation that he consider contacting the local AROTC unit. A number of cadets on this forum who were cut loose last spring by AFROTC reported success in doing that. Not sure how his timetable would work, though, at this point. Could entail another year of school.
 
After you do Field Training in the summer between sophomore and Junior year, you are then invited to contract with the AF when Junior year starts. I guess it was always assumed that if you attend Field Training, you are going to be offered a contract. From what i have read in the last couple of years, those who were going to get rejected never went to Field Training. My son's AFROTC detachment had a major and a colonel. No idea if that is standard or not, but if it is, then OP should have the opportunity to reach out to the Colonel. I understand that you are supposed to follow the chain of command, but as he has already been rejected, what's the worse that can happen by going over the Major's head.

AS for having to learn how to deal with AH, well its easy to say that but not always possible. There is too much of a power imbalance in this situation and if the Major hates him for whatever reason (legit or not) there isn't much you can do about it. Once in AD, someone above you can screw with you and your career but they can't have you thrown out without a real cause.
 
ProudDad17 said:
Sounds like AFROTC to me as well. Not sure about AFROTC, but if this was NROTC, the student would have a PRB (Professional Review Board) before being disenrolled. The notice for the PRB would state the reasons for the hearing and the student would have an opportunity to answer to the charges. There are attorneys that specialize in this area if you run a search for them. Not sure if AFROTC has a similar process.

I agree with some of the other observations. He was doing something right to get picked up for SFT, but finishing top 50% is average, as is a 3.1 GPA. "Personality conflicts" in this setting are on the junior (student) to resolve and navigate. Bringing up the Major's career has no bearing here. He is an officer (XO?) who is charged with training and evaluating your DS' potential as a future officer.
Click to expand...
franknd said:
Did they tell him why they are releasing him? With all of the difficulty that ensued last spring in obtaining a summer field training slot, I would think there must be a concrete, documented reason that they are cutting him now instead of then since he's now (presumably) a second semester academic junior, which is pretty late in the game.

In any event, he should ascertain from his cadre what effect, if any, this will have on his ability to seek alternate sources of commission. Could he still apply for AF OTS after graduating?

Also, I would join in the recommendation that he consider contacting the local AROTC unit. A number of cadets on this forum who were cut loose last spring by AFROTC reported success in doing that. Not sure how his timetable would work, though, at this point. Could entail another year of
Click to expand...
Humey said:
After you do Field Training in the summer between sophomore and Junior year, you are then invited to contract with the AF when Junior year starts. I guess it was always assumed that if you attend Field Training, you are going to be offered a contract. From what i have read in the last couple of years, those who were going to get rejected never went to Field Training. My son's AFROTC detachment had a major and a colonel. No idea if that is standard or not, but if it is, then OP should have the opportunity to reach out to the Colonel. I understand that you are supposed to follow the chain of command, but as he has already been rejected, what's the worse that can happen by going over the Major's head.

AS for having to learn how to deal with AH, well its easy to say that but not always possible. There is too much of a power imbalance in this situation and if the Major hates him for whatever reason (legit or not) there isn't much you can do about it. Once in AD, someone above you can screw with you and your career but they can't have you thrown out without a real cause.
Click to expand...
This won’t help his case any - but it is what it is. We have also learned that he started a student investigation on the Maj for mistreatment/deformation of character, multiple students (best way I know to describe it). I applaud is beliefs and willingness to stand up for himself, however I also believe this played in to the scenario. Half in half out is not the time to stand up for your beliefs. We tried to teach him to shut up and color but I’m guessing he felt strongly enough to take action for himself and others.
The Maj is new as of last year. The Col is new as of last semester. The Col is not very involved feeling like they can’t take a kids “side” and following the path of the Maj.
he was in Arnold his sophomore year and graduated, went to field training, was promised a contract. Never came to fruition. Was promised again this semester, was given a job PFTO and promotion of c/Maj and then had a zoom call to tell him they were dropping him.
He has had no formal notification of paperwork or board notice. I think they are hoping he will just drop the classes and move on since he is a walk on.
 
Southerngal said:
This won’t help his case any - but it is what it is. We have also learned that he started a student investigation on the Maj for mistreatment/deformation of character, multiple students (best way I know to describe it). I applaud is beliefs and willingness to stand up for himself, however I also believe this played in to the scenario. Half in half out is not the time to stand up for your beliefs. We tried to teach him to shut up and color but I’m guessing he felt strongly enough to take action for himself and others.
The Maj is new as of last year. The Col is new as of last semester. The Col is not very involved feeling like they can’t take a kids “side” and following the path of the Maj.
he was in Arnold his sophomore year and graduated, went to field training, was promised a contract. Never came to fruition. Was promised again this semester, was given a job PFTO and promotion of c/Maj and then had a zoom call to tell him they were dropping him.
He has had no formal notification of paperwork or board notice. I think they are hoping he will just drop the classes and move on since he is a walk on.
Click to expand...
it is strange especially with no paper work although that might come later. Being a walk on shouldn't make any difference. If he was invited to Field Training, that means he done something well. Going after the major wasn't going to make friends.
 
Humey said:
Going after the major wasn't going to make friends.
Click to expand...
That probably cooked him. Unless the major did something illegal such as sexual harassment, it was a major mistake to report him. You almost NEVER go outside the chain of command in the military. As a boot or a mid or a cadet you are going to have to get used to some harsh treatment. Not everybody can take getting yelled at or intimidated. But that’s all part of the system.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top