ROTC v West Point

[BlackKnight333]

Hello, I am sure this topic has been discussed before but I am currently very conflicted and was looking for advice. I was accepted into a top-20 University that has been my dream school my whole life and I have a four-year ROTC scholarship. While I have yet to receive my nomination or been accepted yet, I feel that I have good odds at also getting accepted into West Point. Of course if I were not to be appointed, the decision would be made for me but if it goes as I expect I have a very difficult decision ahead of me. The truth is that I love both colleges and there are really both my dream schools. I would really like to hear from people who are in active duty or have been recently about how much an advantage West Point offers in terms of rising up the ranks in the Army. I do not currently plan on being a five and done and want to have a career in the Army up until the point of raising a family. I want to join MI and work within counterterrorism or something else in that are that allows me to utilize foreign languages. If I went to West Point I could minor in the Russian language/regional studies however at my university it would be easier to study multiple languages. I still have a lot of time to make this decision but any insight would be greatly appreciated on what the better path would be for my future.

 

[pa-outdoorsman]

I really have no experience with this, but it has been discussed multiple times in other threads. The biggest thing I have noticed said repeatedly is that if you attend a SA for your bachelor's degree, you have a high likelihood of being able to get a master's degree later at the other school you are talking about, at the government's expense. So, your "dream" of attending that school, or another top-tier school, is not necessarily dead if you choose USMA. On the other hand, if you choose a "regular" college for your bachelor's degree, you'll really never get another chance to experience the four years at a SA.

So, there is really is no right or wrong answer. It boils down to what you want from your main college years -- the 24/7 military structure or more freedom to enjoy traditional "college stuff" while also getting your military training. Best of luck getting that appointment, and if you do end up with this hard choice to make, just know that you really can't go wrong either way. Once you decide, move full steam ahead and don't look back or waste time wondering what could have been found along the road not taken.

 

[jebdad]

You can look at this from a high level standpoint of ROTC vs USMA and many of the pros/cons have been covered numerous times on this forum. These longer range analyses are really important and I think the end result is everyone is a 2LT when they graduate and the long term prospects and their differences in the Army would be negligible if any. From a military training/immersion standpoint, dialing down to the 4 years immediately in front of you, is really a ROTC unit dependent question. Not all units are created equal in terms of training, equipment, opportunities, etc. There's no question the level of immersion and training you will get at WP.

 

[FVNY]

I really have no experience with this, but it has been discussed multiple times in other threads. The biggest thing I have noticed said repeatedly is that if you attend a SA for your bachelor's degree, you have a high likelihood of being able to get a master's degree later at the other school you are talking about, at the government's expense. So, your "dream" of attending that school, or another top-tier school, is not necessarily dead if you choose USMA. On the other hand, if you choose a "regular" college for your bachelor's degree, you'll really never get another chance to experience the four years at a SA.

So, there is really is no right or wrong answer. It boils down to what you want from your main college years -- the 24/7 military structure or more freedom to enjoy traditional "college stuff" while also getting your military training. Best of luck getting that appointment, and if you do end up with this hard choice to make, just know that you really can't go wrong either way. Once you decide, move full steam ahead and don't look back or waste time wondering what could have been found along the road not taken.

My daughter is currently grappling with the decision of whether to attend the USMA or opt for an elite school. Her current inclination is towards a major that may lead to graduate school after four years, making USMA a potentially wiser choice. However, the allure of attending an elite school is undeniable; it's an opportunity for recognition that's hard to turn down. Do you know how many additional years of active duty and reserve service would be required after completing 4 years of study at USMA and pursuing graduate school?

 

[Wahoo Fan]

There could be a difference concerning your chance of getting the certain branch that you desire. For example, West Point tends to have more combat arms slots versus ROTC, so chance of getting that would higher if you choose West Point. I don’t know about MI or other branches. I am sure other people on this forum can answer better than I, or maybe this has been already been discussed in other threads. But yes, there are some potential differences between USMA and ROTC as far as your eventual career path in the Army.

 

[Xdian]

My daughter is currently grappling with the decision of whether to attend the USMA or opt for an elite school. Her current inclination is towards a major that may lead to graduate school after four years, making USMA a potentially wiser choice. However, the allure of attending an elite school is undeniable; it's an opportunity for recognition that's hard to turn down. Do you know how many additional years of active duty and reserve service would be required after completing 4 years of study at USMA and pursuing graduate school?

Example from WP website :

Q: What additional obligation do I incur for attending medical school?

A: The obligation depends on your school (USU or civilian) and the length of your residency. In addition to the 5-year West Point obligation, you will incur an additional 4 years if you go to a civilian medical school (HPSP), or an additional 7 years if you attend USU (the Department of Defense Uniformed Services University of Health Sciences ). Longer residencies (example: surgery) add more time. You will not start "paying off" the obligation until you complete your Graduate Medical Education (residency program).

So in your case, 5yrs + 4yrs , total 9 years obligation service time after an elite graduate school at minimum (all tuition paid by Gov). Or attend graduate school after 5yrs service on your own.

 

[Capt MJ]

Example from WP website :

Q: What additional obligation do I incur for attending medical school?

A: The obligation depends on your school (USU or civilian) and the length of your residency. In addition to the 5-year West Point obligation, you will incur an additional 4 years if you go to a civilian medical school (HPSP), or an additional 7 years if you attend USU (the Department of Defense Uniformed Services University of Health Sciences ). Longer residencies (example: surgery) add more time. You will not start "paying off" the obligation until you complete your Graduate Medical Education (residency program).

So in your case, 5yrs + 4yrs , total 9 years obligation service time after an elite graduate school at minimum (all tuition paid by Gov). Or attend graduate school after 5yrs service on your own.

Or serve 36 months after ADSOfor USMA is completed, separate and earn 100% of the generous Post-9/11 GI Bill veteran education benefit. Lesser percentages can be earned due < 36 months. Be sure to read first link.

https://cms5.revize.com/revize/clintoncountyvsc/Post-911%20GI%20Bill.pdf

Post-9/11 GI Bill (Chapter 33) | Veterans Affairs

The Post-9/11 GI Bill (Chapter 33) helps you pay for school or job training. If you’ve served on active duty after September 10, 2001, you may qualify for the Post-9/11 GI Bill (Chapter 33). Find out if you can get this education benefit.

www.va.gov

Yellow Ribbon Program | Veterans Affairs

The Yellow Ribbon Program can help you pay for higher out-of-state, private school, foreign school, or graduate school tuition and fees that the Post-9/11 GI Bill doesn’t cover. Keep reading to find out if you’re eligible and if your school takes part in this program.

www.va.gov

 

[toomuchtimeonmyhands]

I do not currently plan on being a five and done and want to have a career in the Army up until the point of raising a family. I want to join MI and work within counterterrorism or something else in that are that allows me to utilize foreign languages. If I went to West Point I could minor in the Russian language/regional studies however at my university it would be easier to study multiple languages.

I think it's easier to say you won't be a 5 and done, but trust me, go in with an open mind. You never know what will happen a year or two from now that will change your outlook. Trust me, I was the same. Going in with an open mind will allow you to be more flexible to life changes

One thing you will have to consider is Active Duty vs National Guard/Reserve. USMA is 100% AD, but ROTC is a mix. USMA will also have to do 5 years active duty and 3 years IRR, but a ROTC grad can do 4 years AD and 4 IRR (or less depending on the ROTC contract)

ROTC also has different branching slots. For example: ROTC people can go nursing, but USMA cannot (but you can ignore this since you want MI)

I'm a USMA grad, but have met PLENTY of ROTC grads and I'd say there are significant differences. USMA grads all go through the same training so everyone is pretty standardized. Even the worst ones have a general base knowledge/work ethic. I've seen some pretty bad ROTC grads who were just super lost in the sauce. I'd argue this is because there are a vast number of ROTC programs, making it a lot harder to standardize. Now, there have been plenty of ROTC grads who have far outshined some of the best USMA grads I've met. Just food for thought.

USMA, being a military academy, provides a lot more military opportunities. If you have too much free time over the summer, they will try and slot you for some sort of military training, like air assault (happened to me). Military schools like air assault and airborne are harder to get as an ROTC cadet because there are fewer slots allocated and you have to compete. Furthermore, USMA will have more slots for things like mountain school, combat diver, etc.

As someone interested in MI, I'd recommend USMA academically. There are many internships that will provide you with an opportunity to go abroad, get a TS clearance, and even work with at high echelon organizations. Internships at FBI, Washington DC, etc. Here is one of the academic departments FB internship pages https://www.facebook.com/SOSHAIAD/. These internships and getting a clearance will be paid for you, but may not be free if you went to a normal college

 

[franknd]

Hard for me to give a complete answer without knowing the other school, but in general I'd say that you will not suffer Army-career-wise by attending a "top 20" school instead of West Point. Not at all.

 

[UHBlackhawk]

Reference a SA versus a “Top Tier” university. I’ve spoken to high level head hunters on several occasions, and they have told me that their initial cut is where you went to school. Service academies are grouped into the “top tier” universities when they do their first cut.
In addition, in my industry a 3.0 was one of the standards until recently. The exception was for those who attended a SA, in which case it was a 2.5.

 

[DrMom]

You have a scholarship to your dream school. Why are you even asking here? Go to your dream school. You can do ROTC and become an Army officer. If West Point is not your dream school, please know that you may be very unhappy thinking, 'I could have gone to Princeton' every day when things are miserable and the food is bad and there is no hot water in the showers for 3 months. Just saying. If you want to have the West Point experience, do that...but if somewhere else is your dream school, why do anything else?

 

[DrMom]

Coming back to add...if West Point is your parents' or grandparents' dream school...then you must go to that other school with the ROTC scholarship. But, I think many of us are assuming your dream school is an Ivy or MIT or Stanford. If your dream school is not a big name school, then please consider West Point. Go to the very best school to which you are accepted. It will boost your life and your lifetime earnings and opportunities. If your dream school is the University of Delaware or Maryland...that is great...but consider USMA.

 

[Bill P]

BlackKnight333 -- Congratulations on your work ethic for getting accepted to a Top 20 school and likely appointment to USMA. The above input is absolutely solid. I chime in here only because my DS is in exactly the same position; however, he has the benefit of having an older brother as a USMA '22 grad -- so fresh enough at West Point and 18 months out so understanding the benefits of USMA. Some advice big brother gave lil' brother which, to me, is as real as it gets. "Same mountain, different paths." Then the discussion about military first experience or college first experience. As TooMuchTime mentions above, Big Brother has the same view that there are some outstanding ROTC grads that materially outperform USMA grads and the inverse. USMAs advantages seem to be two fold: 1. learning how to interact with senior officers and NCOS and 2. military training. Still, I would urge that it is an initial advantage whose gap can be overcome with time. As to the first advantage, for four years the Cadets learned how to interact with senior officers and NCOs. As you would expect, USMA grads appear more comfortable, and consequentially more confident, around senior officers. This should not be underestimated. Second, is in military skills. USMA offers opportunities to learn and improve on military skills. My son knew he wanted Infantry or Armor so sought out opportunities to gain skills for these branches, e.g., map reading, OpOrd prep, combat team. One example, at BOLC -- the school immediately after commissioning = Basic Officers Leaders Course - that all newly commissioned officers attend -- he got "go" first time through on all skill testing. Which, brings up what I suppose is another advantages in USMA was in the area of learning how to fail and then respond successfully. An example of this is in OpOrd preparation. After one of his buddies at BOLC failed the OpOrd briefing, as they were walking to their cars, this young man was distraught as he had not failed anything prior. My son, said "Seriously, first time fail? That was a weekly occurrence at West Point." At USMA he had done quite a few OpOrds -- failed, took the input, came back and briefed successfully. USMA will teach resiliency and not to take failing in one task as an end but an opportunity to get back up, take input and do better. All this said, whether at BOLC or in the Big Army, not one person cares where you commissioned from and the LTs help each other -- at least that has been my son's experience. As to what our older son recommended to younger brother -- he would not. He told little brother, this has to be his decision and he would not recommend one or the other. "Same mountain, different paths." You have a tough decision to take. Welcome to Adulthood. Hard decisions are timeless. As Robert Frost so eloquently wrote, "Two paths diverged in a yellow wood, And sorry I could not travel both and be one traveler . . ." My guess is this poem could bring new meaning to you. My advice to you, gather every information, go on an overnight to both if feasible, then take a decision and do not look back. And, don't worry. You'll be fine whatever you decide to do. Best wishes.

 

[dberkeley]

-0

 

[bopper]

There are options for becoming an officer because one path is not right for everyone. It is okay if you want to go to your Top 20 school and do ROTC. People may say "i can't believe you turned down WP" but I assure you, people only care what college you picked for a few months during your senior year.

Like others say, think about your future career, your major, what you want in your college life and pick what is best FOR YOU.