sapperboston
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Midwest Dad hit the nail on the head "Consider the long long term future regardless of your military ambitions".
ROTC vs USMA
- Thread starter GoArmy22
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madhttr
AROTC Dad
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DD was in your shoes a year ago and like you, by the end of the first week was questioning her plan of reapplying to the SAs. Six weeks in there was no question that she would rather stay put and commission through ROTC. There was another cadet in her battalion that turned down an acceptance to USMA. For many, ROTC is the plan B to the SA plan A, but in some cases it becomes plan A. As often stated in other forum discussions, ROTC offers more of the "normal" college experience than the academies. Both are valid avenues to the same end of being an officer in the Army and only you can decide which one is best for you.
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My son chose to remain at his AROTC program and NOT reapply to the SA's because:
- He has enjoyed the "normal" college experience.
- He enjoyed his battalion and the cadre.
- He got to teach snowboarding 30 minutes away during fall and winter.
- He can come home (3 hours away) on weekends if he wants to. (unless there is LDX or FTX).
- He can live off campus in an apartment. (started his sophomore/MS-II year)
- He did not want to postpone commissioning and start over.
I would agree that there is very little difference in the promotional opportunities to a senior level based on your commissioning source and regardless of the source, you will become an officer. Your decision should come down to where do you feel most comfortable. You should also balance the advise here based on the individuals providing it. They all have different experiences. My opinion will touch more on the soft side of the places.
To me, the biggest difference between the two options is the connections and relationships you will build. I can tell you that I know at least 80% of my classmates by name and any of my classmates would do anything for each other and their children. Anytime something good happens to a classmate we all celebrate and anytime their is a tragedy we come together to help. We have started scholarships for children, helped rebuild after natural disasters and just lent an ear to listen to one of our brothers or sisters cry when they have had a rough time. You will make similar relationships through ROTC and the Army, but the width of those bonds will not be the same.
My DD spent a year at AROTC and while she enjoyed her time at a "regular" school, she wanted to feel like she was part of something bigger. She is completely content with her decision to leave and start over. In the big picture of life, spending a year in college when you are 18 is not waisting anything.
The best advice though is to make the most of this year irregardless of your choice at the end.
To me, the biggest difference between the two options is the connections and relationships you will build. I can tell you that I know at least 80% of my classmates by name and any of my classmates would do anything for each other and their children. Anytime something good happens to a classmate we all celebrate and anytime their is a tragedy we come together to help. We have started scholarships for children, helped rebuild after natural disasters and just lent an ear to listen to one of our brothers or sisters cry when they have had a rough time. You will make similar relationships through ROTC and the Army, but the width of those bonds will not be the same.
My DD spent a year at AROTC and while she enjoyed her time at a "regular" school, she wanted to feel like she was part of something bigger. She is completely content with her decision to leave and start over. In the big picture of life, spending a year in college when you are 18 is not waisting anything.
The best advice though is to make the most of this year irregardless of your choice at the end.
This was true years ago when only WP grads were commissioned into the Regular Army, ROCT grads received a Reserve commission and had to apply for Regular status about the time they would make Captain, if not accepted they went Reserves or go out. Those days ended in the 90s when congress changed the rules to make all grads that graduated either WP or ROTC Regular Officers. As the years went by and for a while now, ROTC has been commissioning nearly 3 times the number of Active Duty officers then WP, you are starting to see a lot more senior officers that are ROTC grads.
Just as an example, here are a few from the current Joint Chiefs:
General Dunford - Chairman Joint Chiefs - Graduated St. Michael's College - Marine Corps
General Milley - Army Chief of Staff - Princeton University
General Neller - Commandant of the marine Corps - University of Virginia OCS
General Lenguel - Chief of National Guard Bureau - University of North Texas - Air Force
Both are great paths to a commission, but the network isn't as prevalent as it once was. By network I do not mean the relationships you build with fellow cadets, rather the the network that would help with promotions once you commission.
Great advice.
eljay60
AFROTC parent, former ANC in USAR
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Like it or not there is an extremely high probability that most 2nd LTs won't serve more than 15-20 years max - its 'up or out' when promotions to LtCol and above are considered and there are limited slots available. Unless you can earn stars you will likely be ~37-42 years old [that's young by the way] and have another 20+ year career prospect ahead of you. SA degree plus top tier grad school on top of officer experience is a dynamite resume. Consider the long long term future regardless of your military ambitions.
I know there has been a lot of refutations of this above, and I'll add my 2 cents here, too. At 42, nobody gives a tinker's damn where you went to school, unless they went there, too. Obviously a USMA degree is better than one from Trump University, but all that gets you is an interview. Your performance in an actual work place and the knowledge you express in your multiple interviews are all that will count. In today's information age, what you learned about your profession 5 years ago is at the least outdated, and possibly utterly worthless if you are in a field like IT. Academia is about the only place that cares whether your degree in economics was from Princeton or the University of Pittsburgh. Otherwise, if it is an accredited university, it washes out after ten years. And no one but grad school cares about the difference between a 3.0 and 3.9 GPA, either. As the joke goes, what do you call the guy at the bottom of his medical school class? Doctor. Or, what did they call Custer after he commissioned (allegedly bottom of his USMA class)? Lieutenant.
I have to imagine that from 2nd LT to Major, it is all going to be about your performance and no one is going to care what college you came from. After that when you get into the world of politics, I have to imagine that coming from a SA and possibly being part of an old boys networks is going to give you a leg up. Sometimes who you know is more important that what you know. Never being in the military, I cant say if that applies there, but it does apply in the civilian world and since civilians and military people are all humans, I would be surprised it doesnt work the same there.
I'd just refer you to my post above.
....and just to add to that post. the Commandant of the Marine Corp prior to General Dunford and Neller was also NROCT and from the small state school University of Idaho. Things have changed a lot.
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You make a good point, and I am not trying to say one should choose SA over ROTC , but I have to believe that going to SA can be very beneficial in the long run. Not going as you have proven, doesnt mean you cant reach the top levels but it still doesnt mean it cant be helpful. Now show me a list of every general and Admiral and possibly Colonels and equivalents and lets see how where they came from. That would be a better indicator instead of showing who are on the top.
As I mentioned above:
"This was true years ago when only WP grads were commissioned into the Regular Army, ROCT grads received a Reserve commission and had to apply for Regular status about the time they would make Captain, if not accepted they went Reserves or go out. Those days ended in the 90s when congress changed the rules to make all grads that graduated either WP or ROTC Regular Officers. As the years went by and for a while now, ROTC has been commissioning nearly 3 times the number of Active Duty officers then WP, you are starting to see a lot more senior officers that are ROTC grads."
A lot of the current senior leadership in the Army commissioned 25 to 30 years ago when the numbers between WP and ROTC were a lot different as well as being only WP grads that were commissioned Regular Army, that network was a lot stronger back then.. My point was more for those that have commissioned in the past 10 years or are looking to commission now or in the near future. With ROTC commissioning a far greater number of officers into the the Active Regular Army, the balance between how and where future senior leadership commissions will shift quite a bit.
Elisabethromy
Member
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Haha, I went there! Seriously, the tuition was definitely does NOT reflect its state school identity!Don't let Ann Arbor know they are a state school - might burst their arrogance bubble !!!
That makes a lot of sense
Although I could care less where someone graduated from, I will give you an example of how having USMA connections does, in fact, help. As a new 2LT platoon leader in a FA battery, my unit was going through a large graded field exercise. Part of the grading was on defensive positions and we weren't that skilled in that area. Well, here I am as the newbie and I called up a infantry LT that graduated 1 year before me at USMA from the infantry battalion down the street. He came over to our FA battalion and gave a class to everyone on how to properly build defensive positions. He came out to the field with us too to help. That got me some serious brownie points from the battery and battalion commanders. I didn't do anything other than have a connection thru USMA. BTW, my infantry LT buddy became a ranger battalion commander and is now a general. I have utilized my USMA connections in other units multiple times to help my soldiers. Can a ROTC officer do the same thing? Yep. It sure was a lot easier for me to do it though. It doesn't mean I was a better officer than the other guys, just that I knew more people that could help us solve problems.
Thank you all for your feedback. I apologize for the delayed answer as I am now no longer checking SAF at 8PM every day as a high school senior! I am having a lot of trouble enjoying my other classes because I love ROTC so much! I never expected for it to be so great and for the cadets to be so welcoming and approachable. Even when my arms feel dead after an AGR, it feels so cool to actually learn as an MS-I cadet. I'm not sure if I like the civilian aspect of college though, which is going to be a huge factor when deciding in the end. I am aware that both paths are great paths, so I think it's only a matter of where my heart is at. All I know is that wherever I go, I need to do WELL. But for now, I am enjoying college and ROTC!