Service selection sheets turned in for c/o 24!!

[A1Janitor]

My son called me tonight. Told me about MCWO - might have been interested if was there last year.

He also saw they had one AMDO, which he wanted. They pulled the one AMDO slot at the end last year.

 

[Kierkegaard]

One thing I’ve learned in life is that few things are truly set in stone. I know plenty of classmates who are now in different designators or even branches from what they were assigned on our service assignment day two years ago. Coming to mind are:

At least one Subs->USMC after failing the interview.
A couple SWO->Intel and CW.
A couple nuke school attrites in IW fields.
Plenty of aviation attrites now in IW or supply.

Some of these changes involved changes in medical status or other attrition from training after graduation. Some involved networking and schmoozing (Never underestimate the power of an O-6 making a phonecall on your behalf. Not a guarantee, but I’ve seen it happen).

 

[Old Navy BGO]

Some of these changes involved changes in medical status or other attrition from training after graduation. Some involved networking and schmoozing

Yes, changing designators does occur (probably less frequently now than it did historically judging from reading obituaries in SHIPMATE. One caution though -- never count on the change in designator until the orders are cut. I know of one relatively recent grad, DOR'd from flight training and hoped to get Intel or Cyber, and after a lot of back and forth found himself off active duty well short of 5 years. He truly wanted to serve, but got caught by budget and NEEDS OF THE NAVY.

One other thing ..networking and schmoozing are good, and part of the game, but don't ever forget that your Sea Daddy now may fall out of favor and bring you down with him/her. There is no substitute for sustained superior performance in whatever assignment you have -- that open doors for more and better opportunities.

 

[Old Enlisted Marine]

Yes, changing designators does occur (probably less frequently now than it did historically judging from reading obituaries in SHIPMATE. One caution though -- never count on the change in designator until the orders are cut. I know of one relatively recent grad, DOR'd from flight training and hoped to get Intel or Cyber, and after a lot of back and forth found himself off active duty well short of 5 years. He truly wanted to serve, but got caught by budget and NEEDS OF THE NAVY.

One other thing ..networking and schmoozing are good, and part of the game, but don't ever forget that your Sea Daddy now may fall out of favor and bring you down with him/her. There is no substitute for sustained superior performance in whatever assignment you have -- that open doors for more and better opportunities.

There is no substitute for sustained superior performance…….

Not that you need my endorsement but these are words to live by and have served me well.

Hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard.

 

[Kierkegaard]

Yes, changing designators does occur (probably less frequently now than it did historically judging from reading obituaries in SHIPMATE. One caution though -- never count on the change in designator until the orders are cut. I know of one relatively recent grad, DOR'd from flight training and hoped to get Intel or Cyber, and after a lot of back and forth found himself off active duty well short of 5 years. He truly wanted to serve, but got caught by budget and NEEDS OF THE NAVY.

One other thing ..networking and schmoozing are good, and part of the game, but don't ever forget that your Sea Daddy now may fall out of favor and bring you down with him/her. There is no substitute for sustained superior performance in whatever assignment you have -- that open doors for more and better opportunities.

Very true!

 

[justme]

Service assignments can continue to change up until graduation and beyond, based on needs of the Navy and changes in status (i.e. medical changes).

I would not be surprised if some CW/IP/CWE selects were moved to MCWO prior to graduation, as this happened last year as well. There may have already been a few shifts between when the graphic was made (likely prior to service assignment day) and when the article was published.

The lists are not complete, missing IW communities from the list are MSO and IW EDO. The first is less likely, but there may have been MIDN selected for the second.

Yeah, i know the lists change all the time. I have tried to record the lists over the last 10 years or so, just to see trends etc.
But, i am really shocked by the SWO and Nuke SWO counts.
Either the 205 includes Nukes which makes for a modern record low number, or the 745 and 1012 totals are off by around 40, which seems more likely and oddly bad fact checking for a public press release.

 

[Usnavy2019]

Yeah, i know the lists change all the time. I have tried to record the lists over the last 10 years or so, just to see trends etc.
But, i am really shocked by the SWO and Nuke SWO counts.
Either the 205 includes Nukes which makes for a modern record low number, or the 745 and 1012 totals are off by around 40, which seems more likely and oddly bad fact checking for a public press release.

It probably was included in the SWO count, jsut like the SWO options. Nuke SWOs do a conventional SWO tour first and then head to Nuke School.

 

[justme]

It probably was included in the SWO count, jsut like the SWO options. Nuke SWOs do a conventional SWO tour first and then head to Nuke School.

Understood. But that means SWO would be down 20%. That seems a significant shift if true.

 

[cb7893]

At least one Subs->USMC after failing the interview.

Imagining Ens. Jessup at his interview:

Cmdr. Bubblehead: Ensign, we understand that you have a number of suggestions regarding the use of SLICBM's. Please share those with us.

Ens. Jessup: You can't handle the truth!!!

 

[cb7893]

Some involved networking and schmoozing (Never underestimate the power of an O-6 making a phonecall on your behalf. Not a guarantee, but I’ve seen it happen).

Definitely the case involving at least 1 Army 1Lt.

The O-6 will never make the call on behalf of a malcontented JO who is just looking for a change.

 

[severn]

... just my $.02 cents. Be careful what you ask for when approaching a high ranking officer regarding future assignments. Make sure your sh1+ is together before asking because if it's not you will embarrass the superior officer and he'll remember you... not good for career advancement. While in Philadelphia recruiting battalion, I briefed an O7 spec ops unit commander about college recruits. After the meeting, I asked him how can I join his outfit. He made just one phone call. I got the assignment after the recruiting tour.

 

[Kierkegaard]

... just my $.02 cents. Be careful what you ask for when approaching a high ranking officer regarding future assignments. Make sure your sh1+ is together before asking because if it's not you will embarrass the superior officer and he'll remember you... not good for career advancement. While in Philadelphia recruiting battalion, I briefed an O7 spec ops unit commander about college recruits. After the meeting, I asked him how can I join his outfit. He made just one phone call. I got the assignment after the recruiting tour.

"Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you."

It doesn’t work all the time, but taking initiative is very often rewarded. If done correctly.

 

[williamsdr3]

Quick and dirty:

Restricted Line and Staff Corps are their own officer groups, as is Unrestricted Line. I’ve written numerous posts in this but at the moment don’t have the time to go grab one.

Unrestricted essentially means these officers may command afloat or ashore, in or out of their specialty, operationally and administratively. That covers all the big URL seagoing communities.

RL and Staff Corps work almost 100% within their own specialties and may command within their specialty. They may also go to sea, but will not command a ship, sub, squadron, battle group, SEAL or EOD unit. Or any of the Fleet commands or CNO, etc., at the 4-star level.

Staff Corps provide specialized skills in their profession: law, medicine, dentistry, nursing, medical service, civil engineering, chaplaincy, etc. They may also command within their specialty. Giveaway on Staff Corps - Staff Corps also have their own corps insignia on their uniforms, where URL and RL have stars. Example: the DepDant, a submariner, URL, has a star on his SDB sleeve and any shoulder boards he wears. A fellow captain who is a chaplain, will have a cross or other faith group emblem in those places.

Capt MJ, Thank you for more details on restricted line. My mid just got selected for intel (first choice) and he is restricted line. What does that mean for a long-term career as far as opportunity to move up - is it much more difficult than unrestricted given the restrictions on what they can command?

 

[Capt MJ]

Capt MJ, Thank you for more details on restricted line. My mid just got selected for intel (first choice) and he is restricted line. What does that mean for a long-term career as far as opportunity to move up - is it much more difficult than unrestricted given the restrictions on what they can command?

Not to worry - he will learn all about the career path for his community, opportunities, graduate education, professional training, career milestones necessary for promotion, etc. The “restricted” just means some paths are not open to him, but he will have paths within his community to take him to senior levels, including admiral, if he sticks around and is a top-tier performer.

Command opportunity may or may not be a big deal in his community, but there will be comparable challenging milestone assignments. Command for a URL officer is a primary driver. Not necessarily the same in RL and Staff Corps.

He will have a detailer (assignment counselor) at “Big Navy” personnel command who will help guide his path. There is the officer community manager for his warfare specialty, who guides the commmunity as a whole to meet the needs of the Navy. There will be formal and informal mentoring along the way. There are resources and community news at the MyNavyHR site pages for his community.

The unrestricted line can indeed shoot for the top echelons of the Navy at the 4-star rank - Fleet commands, NATO commands, Chief of Naval Operations, Chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Restricted line officers and Staff Corps officers cannot, though there are some 3-star positions available to them, but heck, that is such rarefied air anyway, it’s not worth thinking about.

Restricted line officers compete within their own community for promotion. Promotions to LTJG and LT are fog-a-mirror, meaning they are not Board-competitive, and all they have to do is pass the PRT, complete any required professional qualifications, and earn their reporting senior’s recommendation. Things get serious when they compete for LCDR promotion, and the path for promotion - for all communities - gets narrower and narrower after that, as the number of officers allowed by law in each paygrade drops lower and lower. Think of a long game of musical chairs and more and more chairs are taken away at every rank. Promotion opportunity for O-1 to O-2 is way up there in the high 90s percentages. For O-6 (captain), it might run 40-50%, and the field has been distilled down to a formidable crop of high-performing officers. For O-7 (admiral), a whole bunch of chairs get pulled off the game floor. Less than half those selected for O-7 will make it to O-8, then the 3-star and 4-star populations are at the skinniest part of the pyramid.

His focus on his specialty will ensure he has a resume in high demand in the private sector. No matter how long he stays in, his 5 or 20+ or something in between, opportunity abounds. He will figure this out and tell you all about it.

Example - every community has its own pages:

Intelligence

 

[usnabgo08]

Without getting too much into the weeds, the Secretary of the Navy Community Briefs, is a conglomerate of each community’s career path through CAPT, primarily used during statutory (promotion) boards to level understanding of board members of what each community values and their career paths, but might be helpful to take a peek at. There are typically two slides…the first slide is a timeline which shows the job opportunities at all ranks…the second slide is the performance expectation to be promoted to the requisite ranks. As CaptMJ mentioned, your DS/DD will be briefed/provided mentorship on most of the specifics as they move through their career. Most communities will provide percentage breakdowns, on the first slide, of the more difficult assignments…department head/milestone tours, CO/XO, major command, etc. Most acronyms are also spelled out. Also as CaptMJ mentioned, flag rank is way down the road…but is extremely difficult in the RL/staff corps communities (not that it isn’t difficult as an unrestricted line officer) because there might be very few (read 1-2 per year, sometimes maybe none) RDML positions open for a large number of eligible CAPTs.

Community slides (within the PDF) below are alphabetically ordered.

Line (unrestricted and restricted) brief: https://www.mynavyhr.navy.mil/Porta...unity_Briefs.pdf?ver=MaFOAiGeV4eIdyB16FZgTg==

Staff Corps brief: https://www.mynavyhr.navy.mil/Porta...unity Briefs.pdf?ver=WKwDOQEN76ZiEBDl9y9_gg==

 

[Capt MJ]

Without getting too much into the weeds, the Secretary of the Navy Community Briefs, is a conglomerate of each community’s career path through CAPT, primarily used during statutory (promotion) boards to level understanding of board members of what each community values and their career paths, but might be helpful to take a peek at. There are typically two slides…the first slide is a timeline which shows the job opportunities at all ranks…the second slide is the performance expectation to be promoted to the requisite ranks. As CaptMJ mentioned, your DS/DD will be briefed/provided mentorship on most of the specifics as they move through their career. Most communities will provide percentage breakdowns, on the first slide, of the more difficult assignments…department head/milestone tours, CO/XO, major command, etc. Most acronyms are also spelled out. Also as CaptMJ mentioned, flag rank is way down the road…but is extremely difficult in the RL/staff corps communities (not that it isn’t difficult as an unrestricted line officer) because there might be very few RDML positions open for a large number of eligible CAPTs.

Community slides below are alphabetically ordered.

Line (unrestricted and restricted) brief: https://www.mynavyhr.navy.mil/Portals/55/Boards/Active Duty Officer/documents/FY24_Promotion_Board_Materials/FY24_AC_Line_Community_Briefs.pdf?ver=MaFOAiGeV4eIdyB16FZgTg==

Staff Corps brief: https://www.mynavyhr.navy.mil/Portals/55/Boards/Active Duty Officer/documents/FY24_Promotion_Board_Materials/FY24_AC_Staff_Community Briefs.pdf?ver=WKwDOQEN76ZiEBDl9y9_gg==

Great stuff. I used to attend detailer “road show” presentations in major fleet homeports, when there would be slides (the original thing!) and then PowerPoint, of course, showing the same things. Then you would go to a breakout room to meet with your detailer or community manager for more specific discussions. With the advent of the internet, access to community info, updates, policy, etc., became so much easier.

And, when a RL officer is attached to a command primarily made up of their specialty, mentors abound. Often they might be the only person of their designator (the 4 digit numerical code assigned to their community) assigned to a command, but if they are in a major fleet homeport, usually the senior officer in their community will gather everyone up periodically.

 

[usnabgo08]

Great stuff. I used to attend detailer “road show” presentations in major fleet homeports, when there would be slides (the original thing!) and then PowerPoint, of course, showing the same things. Then you would go to a breakout room to meet with your detailer or community manager for more specific discussions. With the advent of the internet, access to community info, updates, policy, etc., became so much easier.

And, when a RL officer is attached to a command primarily made up of their specialty, mentors abound. Often they might be the only person of their designator (the 4 digit numerical code assigned to their community) assigned to a command, but if they are in a major fleet homeport, usually the senior officer in their community will gather everyone up periodically.

I’d also add for any Firsties reading…if some of this information isn’t covered in the practicum courses, I would recommend asking your instructor to walk through it. I can’t recall if this was done during our time. For Juniors, Youngstars, and plebes…before you know it, it will be your turn to put in service assignment preferences…as you attend community open houses, have discussions with respective officers on the yard, summer training, etc….it’s worthwhile to discuss the short term (5 year) career aspects, but also the longer term. As we all know, right now some might think five and dive, but then that could change…don’t short yourself by not also considering the longer term picture. One of the great things about USNA is you typically have access to both junior AND senior officers.

 

[Capt MJ]

I’d also add for any Firsties reading…if some of this information isn’t covered in the practicum courses, I would recommend asking your instructor to walk through it. I can’t recall if this was done during our time. For Juniors, Youngstars, and plebes…before you know it, it will be your turn to put in service assignment preferences…as you attend community open houses, have discussions with respective officers on the yard, summer training, etc….it’s worthwhile to discuss the short term (5 year) career aspects, but also the longer term. As we all know, right now some might think five and dive, but then that could change…don’t short yourself by not also considering the longer term picture. One of the great things about USNA is you typically have access to both junior AND senior officers.

Superb advice.

 

[nuensis]

My mid just got selected for intel (first choice) and he is restricted line. What does that mean for a long-term career as far as opportunity to move up - is it much more difficult than unrestricted given the restrictions on what they can command?

For Intel/IW specifically, not necessarily applicable to broader RL (i.e. FAOs, EDOs, etc are totally different):

The IW community has in some aspects been merged together amongst the 18XX designators. This means that Intel, IP, CW, MSO, and MCWO officers will compete in the same category for fitness reports, have similar expectations and timing for career milestones, share administrative screening processes, and can be cross-detailed for XO and CO opportunities.

This means mentorship may come from the broader community when a designator does not have good representation in a certain location (e.g. a senior Intel O-6 can take care of CWs and IPs in a place where they do not have a senior officer within their own designator), and this means that command opportunities can come from a wider pool across all multiple designators.

While there is opportunity to make it all the way up the flagpole, it is definitely not as common as for the URL designators. The IW designators have a couple of 3-star positions, including Naval Information Forces (currently commanded by an Intel officer), the Director of Naval Intelligence (currently vacant, to be commanded by an NFO), and Fleet Cyber Command (currently commanded by an NFO). As discussed, URLs may occupy RL billets, but not the other way around. There are other 3- and 4-star positions in the joint force, such as the Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency and the Commander/Deputy Commander of U.S. Cyber Command.

However, I don't think one should necessarily be starting off with big dreams to pin on stars and be disheartened by a diminished opportunity to do so--there is plenty of opportunity to make O-6 and command as an Intel officer...and I think that is enough for many.

 

[justdoit19]

Circling back a bit…I took a little break. Getting all caught up.

DS handled the ‘draft’ well. He is home now, studying and reading for his day long testing and iterviewing that is yet to occur in February at the Pentagon. So he is still in a somewhat limbo state as he still has to pass tests and interviews. They have all been assigned a mentor. The Sub signing bonus doubled for 2024 (assigned November 2023). So that’s pretty neat. Actually REALLY neat.

Yes they can ‘refuse’. They will (most likely) be sent to SWO. And to an open position, after ship selections have occurred. Wherever the Navy needs them, their OOM not mattering (as selection has already occurred).

I so proud of him. It was a shock. And then a disappointment. But now acceptance. And he is proud and understands what an honor it is to be hand picked for this elite group.

He was looking forward to graduating and commissioning, and moving on. Now he is studying to apply to ‘Navy Nuke School for his nuclear engineering degree’ and ‘USNA part 2’

And I am one PROUD MOMMA!! And this is where he is meant to be. Appreciate all the perspective/focus shares, here. All very true!!