Splitting Senator noms?

[Texark147]

We have read that the Illinois Senators don't double up on nominations. They also only allow you to put down one choice for an academy. DS's question is, should he put down his #1 choice for one senator and his #2 choice for the other, or should he put down his #1 choice for both? I know they won't double up for the same academy, but wondering if they would each give a nom for a different academy? Thankfully his congressman has them rank the academies and has given multiple noms in the past.

 

[kinnem]

People game the system every year and end up with a nom to an Academy they really don't want to attend. I'd put #1 straight up across the board, especially for Senators since the pool is so large

 

[Capt MJ]

You can strategize this until the cows come home.

If the elected officials don’t dupe names across any slates for all SAs, and only give 1 nom to 1 candidate for 1 SA, then it won’t matter. That’s the most extreme collaboration.

I fall in the strategy group that keeps it simple. If you have a #1, be consistent.

People will share many anecdotes of how it worked for them. There are too many factors involved to predict.

The staffs may well collaborate closely, go through these drills every year. If the staffs see a candidate has listed USXA consistently as #1, it’s pretty clear that is the candidate’s goal, and if the candidate has a strong nom application, then the decision may lean toward giving a nom for the #1 SA. If the staffs see the candidate has split the #1, what message does that send? Especially if they compare nom essays, trying to suss out the candidate’s true goal.
That’s just one hypothetical.

 

[Texark147]

You can strategize this until the cows come home.

If the elected officials don’t dupe names across any slates for all SAs, and only give 1 nom to 1 candidate for 1 SA, then it won’t matter. That’s the most extreme collaboration.

I fall in the strategy group that keeps it simple. If you have a #1, be consistent.

People will share many anecdotes of how it worked for them. There are too many factors involved to predict.

The staffs may well collaborate closely, go through these drills every year. If the staffs see a candidate has listed USXA consistently as #1, it’s pretty clear that is the candidate’s goal, and if the candidate has a strong nom application, then the decision may lean toward giving a nom for the #1 SA. If the staffs see the candidate has split the #1, what message does that send? Especially if they compare nom essays, trying to suss out the candidate’s true goal.
That’s just one hypothetical.

Good points, I will say to your question about "what message does that send," if done the right way, it may send the message that DS wants the most chances to attend either SA and serve his country as an officer. Maybe that's something he could touch on in an essay? Looking back over the IL Senator noms over the last 5 years, it does look like they occasionally doubled up, even though it's their rule not to. An Illinois candidate for '27 that we met at a Founders Day event this spring had both Senator noms, congressional nom, and VP nom all to USMA. That was a head scratcher. He hadn't been appointed yet when we met him in March.

 

[time2]

Gaming the MOC NOM system is generally a bad idea. As someone else mentioned, you could end up with an NOM to only the SA that really wasn't your top choice. What a specific MOC did in prior years also may not be what they choose to do this year. Trying to outguess what their process with be this year is also a bad idea.

You also have no idea who else is applying in this cycle and how your resume stacks up against them. Someone may interview well and get NOM's, but have other deficiencies in their resume. Having a MOC NOM is just one step in the process. To be in the running for an appointment, you also have to be 3Q which is something the SA determines based on all of the various elements they consider.

 

[Texark147]

Gaming the MOC NOM system is generally a bad idea. As someone else mentioned, you could end up with an NOM to only the SA that really wasn't your top choice. What a specific MOC did in prior years also may not be what they choose to do this year. Trying to outguess what their process with be this year is also a bad idea.

You also have no idea who else is applying in this cycle and how your resume stacks up against them. Someone may interview well and get NOM's, but have other deficiencies in their resume. Having a MOC NOM is just one step in the process. To be in the running for an appointment, you also have to be 3Q which is something the SA determines based on all of the various elements they consider.

Thanks for the info. "Gaming the system" doesn't sit well with me. He would be ecstatic with his first or second choice. I guess you you could say they are both his top choices, but he has to rank them for his moc and choose only one for each Senator. As far as I know, there are no rules stating that each Senator has to be the same academy. He will make that decision when the time comes, I was just trying to get some advice.

 

[time2]

When the phrase 'gaming the NOM system' is used on this forum, it refers to a candidate who decides to show different SA's as their top choice (even if they aren't) thinking this somehow improves their 'chances' for getting an MOC NOM. There are a number of older threads discussing that topic. Not having a top choice for your SA is different from doing something simply because you think it improves your chances.

 

[Texark147]

When the phrase 'gaming the NOM system' is used on this forum, it refers to a candidate who decides to show different SA's as their top choice (even if they aren't) thinking this somehow improves their 'chances' for getting an MOC NOM. There are a number of older threads discussing that topic. Not having a top choice for your SA is different from doing something simply because you think it improves your chances.

When the phrase 'gaming the NOM system' is used on this forum, it refers to a candidate who decides to show different SA's as their top choice (even if they aren't) thinking this somehow improves their 'chances' for getting an MOC NOM. There are a number of older threads discussing that topic. Not having a top choice for your SA is different from doing something simply because you think it improves your chances.

I understand now, thank you.

 

[IggyMom23]

We are from Illinois also, and my DS applied to 2 SA’s. I would also advise to put his first choice the same on all 3 for the district representative and both senators. The 2 senators’ staffers definitely communicate to not duplicate. I think it is wise to have the top choice consistent. And then if he gets the nomination from his rep and one senator, then he has a greater chance for an appointment for his first choice. If he splits the top choice between the sources and only gets one nomination for his second choice, he may be perfectly happy going there if he gets an appointment, but might always be wondering “what if.” And then even if he gets one nomination for each of his choices, one nomination might not be enough to receive an appointment depending on the competition from his district.

 

[Texark147]

We are from Illinois also, and my DS applied to 2 SA’s. I would also advise to put his first choice the same on all 3 for the district representative and both senators. The 2 senators’ staffers definitely communicate to not duplicate. I think it is wise to have the top choice consistent. And then if he gets the nomination from his rep and one senator, then he has a greater chance for an appointment for his first choice. If he splits the top choice between the sources and only gets one nomination for his second choice, he may be perfectly happy going there if he gets an appointment, but might always be wondering “what if.” And then even if he gets one nomination for each of his choices, one nomination might not be enough to receive an appointment depending on the competition from his district.

Thank you, I will pass your advice along to him. Sounds like he will need to list his #1 choice first with all 3.

 

[Texark147]

We are from Illinois also, and my DS applied to 2 SA’s. I would also advise to put his first choice the same on all 3 for the district representative and both senators. The 2 senators’ staffers definitely communicate to not duplicate. I think it is wise to have the top choice consistent. And then if he gets the nomination from his rep and one senator, then he has a greater chance for an appointment for his first choice. If he splits the top choice between the sources and only gets one nomination for his second choice, he may be perfectly happy going there if he gets an appointment, but might always be wondering “what if.” And then even if he gets one nomination for each of his choices, one nomination might not be enough to receive an appointment depending on the competition from his district.

Did your DS receive an Illinois Senator nom? He is just starting to work on those applications. It looks like neither interviews, is that right?

 

[justdoit19]

Even with two nominations, there may not be an appointment offered. Perhaps OP understands this, but every year there are posters here, who have great confidence in an appointment once the nom is awarded, and are ultimately left without plans when it doesn’t come. So for general readership, make SURE and work other plans.

The Nom is one piece of the 3, required to compete for an appointment.

Idk what the answer is for OP as far as ranking their options. One idea not mentioned, would be to maintain their number 1 choice on paper. And to work their other SA desire somehow into their essay and/or interview.

Personally I think it’s unfortunate that only listing a number one, is the only option. What about USMMA as an option to several service communities? I think ranking only one does a disservice especially to additional options to their desired community (ie: USMMA).

You do have to work within the parameters of the application rules. Maybe speak with your local advisor (ie BGO for USNA) about this. They may have some advice to OP’s specific situation, from a local ‘boots on the ground’ perspective.

Good luck to you!!

 

[Don't Give Up the Ship]

Thoughts: I don't think there is a "right" answer to the OP's question. It's really up to him or her. Each citizen has the right to apply for any and all Nominations they are eligible for. How the MOC determines who is on their slate(s) is totally up to them and their staff. OP, you could ask the different MOC staffs your question. Believe me, they wrestle and understand these questions exist. MOC boards and staff understand that not all candidates get their first choice. My experience says that they will not hold it against a candidate who asks questions...it's just difficulty getting them to respond. Asking earlier is better. Good luck.

 

[IggyMom23]

Did your DS receive an Illinois Senator nom? He is just starting to work on those applications. It looks like neither interviews, is that right?

He did not receive a senator nom, but everything worked out and he is a new cadet at USMA. And no, neither interviews…Sen. Duckworth has those several interview essay questions, so your DS should spend quality time on those answers. Sen. Durbin just has the application, so everything is based on the info provided there, and the letters of recommendation.

 

[IggyMom23]

Idk what the answer is for OP as far as ranking their options. One idea not mentioned, would be to maintain their number 1 choice on paper. And to work their other SA desire somehow into their essay and/or interview.

Yes, the only nomination source who did interviews was our representative, and DS said that he spoke a lot about both of his SA choices, especially because, although he had to rank them 1 and 2 on the application, in his mind they were pretty much even, just different.

 

[Texark147]

The Nom is one piece of the 3, required to compete for an appointment.

Thank you for your insights. Yes we definitely understand that a nomination is only one piece of the puzzle. Multiple noms gives more baskets, but still far from a guarantee.[/QUOTE]