SSOP or MMR/SIP Questions

[KPEngineer]

This seems to be the likely way to go...

My thoughts were to get an ABET certified engineering degree, sail, and work in grad school between sailing tours. Take it from there.


If I were to sail under obligation, how many days a year are we talking about? The above quote says 150 or less. But where do you find the median number of days that is referred to above?

What are typical sailing assignments? If one could sail 90 days on and 90 days off, I could fit quarter system grad school in between sailing jobs.

MARAD will have that number. I doubt it is much different than 150 and 150 is only five months so that still leaves you seven months for school.

Does anyone even do quarters? I would suggest sailing a year before deciding to try and fit anything in your time off. You will need some decompression time and sitting in a grad school class doesn't sound too decompressing to me.

Frankly, I wouldn't get myself overly focused on the systems degree. A higher GPA as a sweathog will help you better in getting in and you really won't be that far behind a Mech Engineer grad anyway.

 

[MechEngi2B]

...Besides, if you go to KP, you don't have a choice.

I've started attending a maritime academy this year and decided against SSOP. I'm trying to decide if I should go to the USMMA or stay where I am. I want to make sure that I can fulfill any obligations I enter into.

 

[MechEngi2B]

I would suggest sailing a year before deciding to try and fit anything in your time off. You will need some decompression time and sitting in a grad school class doesn't sound too decompressing to me.

...This is what concerns me about mandatory sailing.

Frankly, I wouldn't get myself overly focused on the systems degree. A higher GPA as a sweathog will help you better in getting in and you really won't be that far behind a Mech Engineer grad anyway.

This is exactly what I want to know. I have to find out what I need for grad school admission. If a non ABET certified degree can get me into grad school, then I'd be willing to "sweathog" major. I agree, get a better GPA and ease up on the curriculum a bit. If, that's true, then I'm willing to step into a more practical major.

 

[KPEngineer]

This is exactly what I want to know. I have to find out what I need for grad school admission. If a non ABET certified degree can get me into grad school, then I'd be willing to "sweathog" major. I agree, get a better GPA and ease up on the curriculum a bit. If, that's true, then I'm willing to step into a more practical major.

Usually the criteria is that you must be from a school where at least one major is ABET accredited. It doesn't have to be your major specifically, it is more about knowing that the school itself has been through the process.

Is there a sailing requirement at the state schools if you don't take the SIP? That is starting to sound like it is might be the better path for your interests.

If you are worried that sailing will get in the way of your career plans than KP is definitely not the place for you.

 

[AMF]

If I major in Major Design Engineering, but have to go to Sea for 5 years, I wonder if my knowledge base would become outdated. My design skills may become lost over the years at sea. Maybe I should take a sea going engineering major. Then, get a graduate engineering degree if I decide to go ashore.

My interest in is the career paths of Marine Engineering Design majors ...after they stop sailing. Do they go on to professional engineering or did they get side tracked?

Keep in mind that I am flexible, but I want to plan appropriately. I like the idea of a sailing career. I look with favor upon a naval career, surface or sub. I would be happy in the Air Force as a project engineer. I would certainly consider the CG or NOAA. However, I believe that I will end up in private industry ashore ...sooner or later.


The question I face now is over what major to select. Professional or seagoing engineering. I certainly don't object to mandatory service, but it is a factor in career planning. So, I pose the question again: what are some of the actual career paths of the Marine Engineering Design majors?

I am not sure how robust the job market is for MEDs in aerospace industry, but have you considered USAFA or other well known schools for MED?

 

[MechEngi2B]

Usually the criteria is that you must be from a school where at least one major is ABET accredited. It doesn't have to be your major specifically, it is more about knowing that the school itself has been through the process.

I'm not so sure about the this. I checked some likely grad schools. Here's what one school says:
1.) "The applicant must hold a baccalaureate degree in engineering from a program that has been accredited by the Accreditation Board for Engineeringand Technology (ABET)."

2.) "The degree must have been granted within five years prior to the proposed beginning of the graduate program. A baccalaureate degree in engineering technology does not satisfy this criterion."

3.) "Conditional admission may be granted. In such cases, the applicant is required to submit recent test scores of the Graduate Record Examination, letters of recommendation, and other documents attesting to the applicant’s aptitude for graduate studies. Applicants who do not satisfy criterion (1) may be required to take a limited number of preparatory courses with no degree credit."

Is there a sailing requirement at the state schools if you don't take the SIP?

No. You can get a USCG sailing license without obligation. Contracting into SSOP incurs sailing obligation.

If you are worried that sailing will get in the way of your career plans than KP is definitely not the place for you.

Perhaps. And neither would be the SSOP.
The question is how could I fit grad school in with 150 days a year of sailing? If I can, then mandatory sailing is OK, even desired. I would be happy with a Naval Reserve commission. But, If I can't squeeze in part time grad school, then that's a potential deal breaker.

 

[MechEngi2B]

...have you considered USAFA or other well known schools for MED?

.

AMF: The issue is not about schools. I'm in a good program now. The issue is over the terms of contractual obligation. Not only for the USMMA, but also for contracting into the Strategic Sealift Officer Program (SSOP), which is offered at the state maritime academies.

It is possible to contract into SSOP, commission into the USAF and work as a developmental engineer (62E). But, this is not guaranteed in the SSOP. The cadet is on their own when trying for the USAF or any other service.

So, I have to ask:
Am I willing to accept being unable to take a shore job for 5 years?
Am I willing to postpone grad school for 5 years?
Answer is that I am not willing to accept both scenarios. I could live with one or the other, not both.
So I am unlikely to contract into SSOP or apply to MMA unless the issue is resolved.

 

[tankercaptain]

.

AMF: The issue is not about schools. I'm in a good program now. The issue is over the terms of contractual obligation. Not only for the USMMA, but also for contracting into the Strategic Sealift Officer Program (SSOP), which is offered at the state maritime academies.

It is possible to contract into SSOP, commission into the USAF and work as a developmental engineer (62E). But, this is not guaranteed in the SSOP. The cadet is on their own when trying for the USAF or any other service.

So, I have to ask:
Am I willing to accept being unable to take a shore job for 5 years?
Am I willing to postpone grad school for 5 years?
Answer is that I am not willing to accept both scenarios. I could live with one or the other, not both.
So I am unlikely to contract into SSOP or apply to MMA unless the issue is resolved.

It's obvious from your posts that you are looking for someone to tell you that you can graduate from Kings Point and have no service obligation. Stop wasting your time and everyone else's. Don't apply to Kings Point it's obviously not for you. Enjoy the maritime school you are at, for get about getting the SIP and move on.

 

[tankercaptain]

I'm not so sure about the this. I checked some likely grad schools. Here's what one school says:
1.) "The applicant must hold a baccalaureate degree in engineering from a program that has been accredited by the Accreditation Board for Engineeringand Technology (ABET)."

2.) "The degree must have been granted within five years prior to the proposed beginning of the graduate program. A baccalaureate degree in engineering technology does not satisfy this criterion."

3.) "Conditional admission may be granted. In such cases, the applicant is required to submit recent test scores of the Graduate Record Examination, letters of recommendation, and other documents attesting to the applicant’s aptitude for graduate studies. Applicants who do not satisfy criterion (1) may be required to take a limited number of preparatory courses with no degree credit."


No. You can get a USCG sailing license without obligation. Contracting into SSOP incurs sailing obligation.



Perhaps. And neither would be the SSOP.
The question is how could I fit grad school in with 150 days a year of sailing? If I can, then mandatory sailing is OK, even desired. I would be happy with a Naval Reserve commission. But, If I can't squeeze in part time grad school, then that's a potential deal breaker.

By the way you should really read the admission policy for the MSME program at Cal Poly. Because it stated there are 2 types of appointments on is unconditional which is what you posted with regards to admission and unconditional.

 

[KPEngineer]

.
So I am unlikely to contract into SSOP or apply to MMA unless the issue is resolved.

Do you realize how you sound? Intentional or not, that is written like they would be somehow making a mistake in making you sail. Like somehow the world of Engineering Design has been waiting a couple hundred years for you to arrive and how dare something like a contractual obligation get in the way.

Thank you Dr. Sheldon Cooper for gracing us with your presence here on the KP forum ... no go study and stop worrying how to bend the rules to your whims. None of it matters if you don't get the degree to begin with.

 

[MechEngi2B]

state SSOP/SIP is more than flexible enough

The state SSOP contract (Section 2.b.(2)(a)1.) says that, "I will sail on my license at sea for at least four (4) months during every two (2) consecutive years following the acceptance of my commission."

State school graduates can also apply for a deferment to attend graduate school. Reference: Deferment of service obligation under student incentive payment agreements. 46 U.S.C. 51510 (2007).

So, the state SSOP/SIP is more than flexible enough for me to do whatever I want.

 

[tankercaptain]

The state SSOP contract (Section 2.b.(2)(a)1.) says that, "I will sail on my license at sea for at least four (4) months during every two (2) consecutive years following the acceptance of my commission."

State school graduates can also apply for a deferment to attend graduate school. Reference: Deferment of service obligation under student incentive payment agreements. 46 U.S.C. 51510 (2007).

So, the state SSOP/SIP is more than flexible enough for me to do whatever I want.

You need to really read everything,

If you decide to attend graduate school after graduation, you may apply for a
deferment of your employment service obligation. The State maritime academy must approve and make a recommendation to MARAD. MARAD may grant a deferment of the employment service obligation for a period not to exceed two consecutive years, only for graduates considered to have superior academic and conduct records while at school, for the purpose of entering a marine or maritimerelated graduate course of study at an accredited graduate school.

An application for a deferment must be made through the Superintendent/
President of your school, who will forward your application together with his/her recommendation and an evaluation of your academic and conduct records, to MARAD for appropriate action. All supporting documentation that describes the marine or maritime-related graduate program from an accredited school shall accompany your request. MARAD will notify you of the action taken on your request.

Note that you need to take a marine or maritime related graduate program.


I also hate to tell you, you are wrong about sea service time, from the CFR.
(vi) Serve in the foreign or domestic
commerce or both, and the national defense of the United States for at least
three (3) years following graduation
from a School—


Afloat employment year. For purposes of the service obligation, a satisfactory year of afloat employment
shall be the lesser of—
(i) 150 days; or
(ii) The number of days employed
afloat that is at least equal to the median number of days of seafaring employment under articles achieved by
deck or engine officers in the most recent calendar year for which statistics
are available.
46 CFR § 310.7

You need to actually read what you are signing. You are very misinformed and making poor assumptions.

 

[tankercaptain]

I'll finish the conversation with this, if you were wise you would take our advice.
If you graduate from a state school under the SIP program you have a three year sailing commitment and a 3 year naval reserve commitment (ie two weeks a year).
So as a cadet you would try and cadet ship on a drillship. I say drillships because they are the highest paid jobs out there, for working one month on one month off you will make starting out six figures. Once you graduate you would get a job on a drillship and save as much money as possible. Maybe live at home or find a buddy to live with and pay year round rent, instead of trying to get away with paying just the months you are there. Once you have the time to upgrade, upgrade and if you did well you will be promoted. Second Engineers on a drill ship make another 30k a year easy. Keep saving all your money, don't buy a new car, don't buy a house, don't buy crazy stuff, save everything for grad school. During your last year of sailing take your PE to become and EIT. Work in your two weeks of naval duty durtying those three years, its easy to do. Finally after three years of sailing you attend grad school and you know what. You have saved enough money to pay for at least one year of grad school, maybe even the second. You finish grad school with little or no debt and if you needed to you could ship again while looking for a shoreside job.
Take it for what it's worth, however I don't think you will.

 

[MechEngi2B]

Tankercapt:
I read the stipulations about grad school deferment you referred to. I was aware of the operative word "may" and the other complications you quote. In fact, there is nothing in my contract that mentions grad school deferment. So, I agree with you and view deferment only as remote possibility.

OTH, I directly quoted the contract given to me regarding sailing requirements . There was nothing relating to a 150 day per year obligation. I consider the 4 month over 2 years part to be enforceable. Still, I read your warnings, so I will have a lawyer check the contract as a final precaution.

I think that there might be differences between the state and USMMA contracts. Though I have not read an USMMA contract.

In closing, thanks Cap'n, your for your advice about shipping. This is the kind of veteran ideas I need. I'm am not sure what a drillship is, but I'll absolutely check this out. Cheers.

 

[tankercaptain]

Just so you know I quoted the CFR with regards to State Maritime Academy graduates and the SIP. I suggest you read the CFR and go to MARAD's service obligation complaince website both will give you a better picture. I also suggest talking to the Head of Naval Science at your school. You really need to read everything and stop making assumptions based upon your wants. I have many buddies who are State Maritime grads and did the SIP. No where ever has there been an obligation for only getting 4 months in a two year period.