Thayer Method

ca2midwestmom

ca2midwestmom

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Can anyone who is a current or past USMA cadet explain how the Thayer Method is different from conventional college level instruction? I understand that cadets are responsible for learning the material on their own, then it's reinforced in class through group learning. I would assume they would be given a detailed syllabus vs an outline. Aside from long lectures, I'm not clear on how this is different from instruction in a civilian college class.
 
I'm not a current cadet but I am a candidate and my father is a past cadet. The Thayer method is meant for cadets to walk into class knowing the topic and have questions for the professor. It is mainly to make sure that the student is responsible for learning the information and the professor to answer any uncertainties. Hope this helps!
 
The Thayer method is used in the high school my son attends. The classes are not the typical lecture and note taking approach with which most are familiar. The students are given reading assignments and/or an outline of topics that will be covered in a class ahead of time (this is the homework done before a class). The student is then responsible for reading and/or researching the information and coming to class with both an understanding of the material AND a list of questions, areas of confusion, and areas requiring further detail and refinement to ensure they have 100% understanding of the topic at hand. The class time largely consists of the students directing the class conversation as they work to assist each other in strengthening their understanding. THen, the homework after class is to refine your class outline and notes to fill in the gaps that existed before that class. Then, you start on the homework of preparing for the next class. My son now loves this approach to learning - but it took time or him to get use to it - showing up n class and taking notes while the teacher feeds you information you just have to memorize is much more passive. He had to be become a proactive learner and then he excelled. hHe biggest hurdle for my son in the beginning was to really prepare for class and not just skim - he now knows he has to read critically, do additional independent (internet mostly) research and really know where he does not have clarity of detail. He has learned that his education is 100% his responsibility and the instructor is a tool at his disposal. He learning is not the teacher's job, but his responsibility. I have found the Thayer method to be a great builder of critical thinking and independent learning skills.
 
So say for math or chemistry, a cadet will have read Chapter x and done problems x-xx prior to attending class, then get help in class with anything he/she didn't understand? Having smaller classes would definitely be a pro in that respect. Is homework graded? I read something that grades are given daily?? Or are grades only given for tests (a couple of times per semester)?

I'm not really worried, just curious ... DS shouldn't have a problem with this method and he did hear about it at length during SLE, so he is (sort of) prepared. :shake: But as with any new experience, there is a learning curve of what is expected, especially when going from high school to college.

EDIT: cross-posted with Powderhorngreen
 
Based on what I've seen for the past three years, the "Thayer Method" just means you're responsible for doing homework/readings on material you haven't covered in class yet. Class time still largely depends on teachers identifying and teaching the important information (although this varies from course to course).
 
I just came across this discussion and wanted to add some additional insights that I don't believe was mentioned previously. (I graduated from USMA in 1976).

Part of the Thayer Method is for cadets to "take boards." After an initial period of instruction and Q&A, the cadets in the classroom go to a section of the chalkboard (now marker boards). (Each has his/her own section of the board.)

The cadet is given a problem to solve. S/he then solves the problem on the board showing all steps of their work. Next, the cadets "recite" on their work, i.e., explain to the classroom their problem-solving methodology and how they got their answer.

So, yes, the cadet is responsible for doing the homework, but the evidence of that is demonstrated in class in front of your peers every day. This method helps ensure the cadet masters the material, can think quickly on their feet, and develop both their skills of persuasion and presentation.

Finally, this provides the chance, in today's world, for the problems on the board to be photographed with one's smartphone and thus have a portfolio of additional solved problems to study for the quizzes and exams. When I was a cadet, most classes had a daily 5-10 minute quiz or at least once a week. That way, the material is learned in an ongoing consistent manner and not in a one-night exam cramming session where the exam is 50% of your grade.

As a cadet, the last thing I wanted was to be given a problem that I had to solve in front of my peers and not be able to at least give it a good go. To stand there with a blank markerboard was quite embarassing; something you worked hard to avoid. Next, I wanted to be able to know the material well enough that I would feel confident explaining my work. On the battlefield, a leader must explain to his/her soldiers what needs to be done to win the situation at hand, then rely on those troops to go execute. The classroom training helps us be prepared to be better leaders in the field with real world problems.
 
Some teachers use it, others refuse. As others have said, it means gaining understanding of the material in class ahead of time then coming to class with clarifying questions. There are often small quizzes in class to hold you accountable for this, however not always. The Department of Mathematics especially, from what I've seen, rejects the Thayer method. Some (really, most) of my classes are structured as a typical classroom.

I haven't "taken boards" since coming here (cue 'the Corps has,' though they are still chalk boards) and most of our classwork is now group based. We often work in pairs or threes on a problem and try to reason through it before typically asking for help.
 
prospective2019 said:
Some teachers use it, others refuse. As others have said, it means gaining understanding of the material in class ahead of time then coming to class with clarifying questions. There are often small quizzes in class to hold you accountable for this, however not always. The Department of Mathematics especially, from what I've seen, rejects the Thayer method. Some (really, most) of my classes are structured as a typical classroom.

I haven't "taken boards" since coming here (cue 'the Corps has,' though they are still chalk boards) and most of our classwork is now group based. We often work in pairs or threes on a problem and try to reason through it before typically asking for help.
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In other terms, this is called the "Flipped Method". A math teacher at DS's school (where I am also a teacher) does it and, in our opinion, it doesn't work well. I'm glad USMA's math dept doesn't do it.
 
@billyb I've taken boards every day in all three of those subjects so far.

Anyway, yeah, from my experiences, there's not really that much different between a regular college and West Point in terms of learning styles any more. I can think of maybe 2-3 classes last year that did not use the Thayer Method. This year is a lot of the same, but I find it's a lot less common for instructors that aren't Old Grads to use the Thayer Method. Homework is almost always graded which sucks if it's a paper assignment, but if it's digital you generally have until the end of the day so you have time to ask questions and get clarification before it's due if you completely didn't understand the lesson.
 
THmom said:
In other terms, this is called the "Flipped Method". A math teacher at DS's school (where I am also a teacher) does it and, in our opinion, it doesn't work well. I'm glad USMA's math dept doesn't do it.
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not true USMA’s math Dept does use it. I have a current plebe and his current Prof uses the method. the class he was in last semester is only taught in 2 Universities in the entire US (West Point & MIT). So it was a struggle for him to find help or information to help with that class.
 
I forgot about the civilian professors. I don't think I had any civilian professors in my 4 years, but that was 20 years ago.
 
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