The Worth of AP Exams

cavubeat@rmy2021

USNA C/O 2025
Joined
May 17, 2020
Messages
33
I am a rising senior and I have (as of now) taken 5 AP classes and tests. I will be taking 4 next year. I am in the process of applying to USNA and wanted to know how important AP exams are in determining your classes. I understand the Academy takes them for validating out of courses, but how does that work? Do you still have to take the validation test if you took the AP exam? Can you just show them your scores (if they're high enough)? And if so, who and would you contact about that and when? Thank you everyone!
 
I am a rising senior and I have (as of now) taken 5 AP classes and tests. I will be taking 4 next year. I am in the process of applying to USNA and wanted to know how important AP exams are in determining your classes. I understand the Academy takes them for validating out of courses, but how does that work? Do you still have to take the validation test if you took the AP exam? Can you just show them your scores (if they're high enough)? And if so, who and would you contact about that and when? Thank you everyone!


If you have not yet read every page, link and menu item at USNA.edu, I recommend it. Most answers are there at the primary source.


Source:
Google search string “USNA validation”

Initial validation occurs during Plebe Summer.
 
If you have not yet read every page, link and menu item at USNA.edu, I recommend it. Most answers are there at the primary source.


Source:
Google search string “USNA validation”

Initial validation occurs during Plebe Summer.
Thank you! Getting there, it's a long list :)
 
Thank you! Getting there, it's a long list :)
[/Q
Thank you! Getting there, it's a long list :)


It is indeed a marathon, not a sprint.

The entire application process is a test of the applicant’s initiative, executive planning and organization skills, determination, attention to detail, perseverance, time management, patience, across potentially multiple SA, ROTC Scholarship and college applications, plus multiple nomination applications, DODMERB medical process and CFA preps. These are all junior military officer skills.

Now is the right time to get your strategy and tactics clarified by wading through the research at the primary sources, taking notes, building a timeline of action steps and due dates. Whether you use whiteboard, folders, notebooks, spreadsheets, there are a lot of moving parts to track.

The general advice around here is to get your best package in, as early as you can.
 
It is indeed a marathon, not a sprint.

The entire application process is a test of the applicant’s initiative, executive planning and organization skills, determination, attention to detail, perseverance, time management, patience, across potentially multiple SA, ROTC Scholarship and college applications, plus multiple nomination applications, DODMERB medical process and CFA preps. These are all junior military officer skills.

Now is the right time to get your strategy and tactics clarified by wading through the research at the primary sources, taking notes, building a timeline of action steps and due dates. Whether you use whiteboard, folders, notebooks, spreadsheets, there are a lot of moving parts to track.

The general advice around here is to get your best package in, as early as you can.
Agreed. I have spent the past four years doing exactly that. Even if I don't get accepted, the application process itself is quite the learning experience!
 
I'll tell you what they could be worth. Had my DS gone to a civilian college, he would have received enough AP credit to start college as a 2nd-semester Sophomore. Skipping 3 semesters of college equates to a big bag of money.

As it turned out - he validated 5 classes at USNA - but I have never noticed a difference in his class load. Maybe by the time he's a Firstie, he'll have it easy? :biggrin:
 
.
I don’t know who the folks are who are grading the AP exams.
.
I trust the professors who prepared the validation exams at the USNA.
.
 
cavubeat@rmy2021 - Just wrapping up my Plebe year and can answer your specific question based on my experiences this past summer (the last real plebe summer :)

That said, it's important you listen to Capt. MJ's advice above all else, and definitely get familiar with USNA's most current validation policies:


Anyway, I took 11 AP Classes and Exams while in high school. As you know, AP scores are self-reported to colleges/universities. Because I had done well on them, I went ahead and sent them to USNA, referenced them in my application as well as included reference to them in my congressional nomination applications. I have no idea if USNA Admissions or my U.S. representative SA nomination panels factored these into their decision making, but it could not have hurt.

Here's one way though, they could potentially help on the admissions/nom front: Because you indicate that have already taken five (5) AP Exams, its possible that you will qualify, based on your scores, for one ore more AP Award(s) (either AP Scholar, AP Scholar with Honor or AP Scholar with Distinction); If you do end up earning one or more of these awards later this summer, I would absolutely make sure you include reference to it/them in both your USNA Application as well as in your congressional nomination application packages.

Ok, your specific question on how it works in terms of validation (at least as of this past summer for USNA Class of '23). Again, start with the USNA link that Capt. MJ referenced on the USNA site. You'll see that some AP Exams directly validate specific courses while others require that you also take the departmental placement exam to achieve validation.

Importantly, each department and course has a potentially different process/requirement. Here are just a few of the examples I experienced:

1) Even though I received a "5" on the AP Chinese Language Exam, because I wanted to validate the first couple of years of Chinese, I had to take during plebe summer, multiple USNA Chinese Department Placement Exams to validate the first two years of Chinese Language.

2) Interestingly for Spanish though, I scored "5"'s on both AP Spanish Language and AP Spanish Literature exams but, I was never asked to take a Spanish Department Placement Exam(s). The first two years of Spanish "validation" just showed up on the MIDS system (the internal academic system that the Academy uses) based on the AP Scores I had sent to the Academy.

3) Math. This one is a little confusing. If you receive an appointment and when you get your PTR (permit-to-report) package, you'll get links to take a myriad of online placement tests including for multiple levels of math, based on the last level of math you took either in high school, prep school or college.

You'll take these online before your report to I-Day and I think that everyone has to take them. In my case, I had taken both the AP Calc AB and AP Calc BC exams yet still had to take the online math placement exam. That said, I think I was told that if your AP Calc Exam scores were high enough, that they actually trump your online placement test scores.

Finally, on arrival after I-Day, if you have validated (either thru AP scores or online placement exams) Calc I and Calc II, you'll have the option of taking additional placement exams to validate Differential Equations and/or Calc III. Hope this make sense.

4) Chemistry. In this instance, it really is all about your performance on the Chemistry department placement exam you'll take after arriving during plebe summer. Depending on your performance, you can either validate Chem I, Chem II or be placed into a middle class called Modern Chemistry which is for kids who validate Chem I and have a strong Chem background but based on the placement exam, didn't validate Chem II.

For context, I scored a 5 on the AP Chem Exam so was likely prepared to do well on the Chemistry departmental placement exam, but I literally fell asleep (out of exhaustion from the first week of Plebe Summer - the room was quiet, air conditioned and no one was yelling or watching us :) halfway thru the placement exam and as a result, never finished the test. As a result, I was placed into Modern Chemistry which was a great class and definitely not easy. I had seen most of the material before in high school AP Chem, but it was definitely taught at a much deeper level and more quickly @ USNA.

5) Same with Physics. While I had taken the AP Physics Exam in high school, I simply was too busy during Plebe Year (you can take the exam after Plebe Summer during the academic year) to even take the placement/validation exam. I just finished taking Physics I a couple of weeks ago and loved the class; had an amazing professor who cared deeply about every student (you're going to experience this a lot @ USNA) and in hindsight, am so glad that I took the class versus validating it. I feel so much better prepared for Physics II which starts up in a week during mandatory summer school. Important to note that Physics I at USNA is Physics with Calculus and many high school AP Physics courses don't require/utilize Calc since depending on sequencing/availability, students might not have had Calculus yet.

If you have any other specific validation or placement test questions, I'm happy to answer them since it's still a pretty fresh experience. Just private message me.

Like many kids, I was both nervous and really torn about whether or not to try and validate courses coming into USNA. I had read about the pro's (potentially being able to participate in the VGEP program as an upper classman; being able to take a slightly lower course load later on (remember though, average course loads/semester hours at USNA are normally much higher than regular college - even if you validate a ton of courses) versus many of the negatives (not having a strong foundation in areas that are key building blocks for your major, having to take harder classes early on in your already stressful plebe year etc.) There is no "pat" or absolute correct path/answer on validation -- and for every student, the decisions around validation (or not) are inherently personal, based on your interests, academic background, potential major/minor as well as the fact that the "right decision" can and likely will, vary from subject to subject.

At the end of the day, my advice (albeit obvious) would be to do your best on AP Exams, as well as the online and in-person placement exams that USNA administers and see where the results fall. You don't have to accept a "validation" if you receive one -- and trust me when I say, that USNA has seen this movie before; their recommendations, based on your AP Exam scores and placement test results are usually very accurate, or at least they felt like they were to me and many of fellow Plebe shipmates. On the academic front, USNA truly wants you to succeed and while they will for sure, challenge you, I got the very strong impression that they would not intentionally set you up (or allow you to set yourself up) for failure by misplacing you in an inappropriate class level.

Good luck on your senior year and your USNA Application. I can't say that I loved or enjoyed every minute of Plebe Summer and Plebe Year -- but now that it's over (Sea Trials and Herndon withstanding,) I can share with you how fortunate I feel to have had this incredibly unique opportunity, making lifelong friends and growing in ways I could have never imagined a year ago.
 
cavubeat@rmy2021 - Just wrapping up my Plebe year and can answer your specific question based on my experiences this past summer (the last real plebe summer :)

That said, it's important you listen to Capt. MJ's advice above all else, and definitely get familiar with USNA's most current validation policies:


Anyway, I took 11 AP Classes and Exams while in high school. As you know, AP scores are self-reported to colleges/universities. Because I had done well on them, I went ahead and sent them to USNA, referenced them in my application as well as included reference to them in my congressional nomination applications. I have no idea if USNA Admissions or my U.S. representative SA nomination panels factored these into their decision making, but it could not have hurt.

Here's one way though, they could potentially help on the admissions/nom front: Because you indicate that have already taken five (5) AP Exams, its possible that you will qualify, based on your scores, for one ore more AP Award(s) (either AP Scholar, AP Scholar with Honor or AP Scholar with Distinction); If you do end up earning one or more of these awards later this summer, I would absolutely make sure you include reference to it/them in both your USNA Application as well as in your congressional nomination application packages.

Ok, your specific question on how it works in terms of validation (at least as of this past summer for USNA Class of '23). Again, start with the USNA link that Capt. MJ referenced on the USNA site. You'll see that some AP Exams directly validate specific courses while others require that you also take the departmental placement exam to achieve validation.

Importantly, each department and course has a potentially different process/requirement. Here are just a few of the examples I experienced:

1) Even though I received a "5" on the AP Chinese Language Exam, because I wanted to validate the first couple of years of Chinese, I had to take during plebe summer, multiple USNA Chinese Department Placement Exams to validate the first two years of Chinese Language.

2) Interestingly for Spanish though, I scored "5"'s on both AP Spanish Language and AP Spanish Literature exams but, I was never asked to take a Spanish Department Placement Exam(s). The first two years of Spanish "validation" just showed up on the MIDS system (the internal academic system that the Academy uses) based on the AP Scores I had sent to the Academy.

3) Math. This one is a little confusing. If you receive an appointment and when you get your PTR (permit-to-report) package, you'll get links to take a myriad of online placement tests including for multiple levels of math, based on the last level of math you took either in high school, prep school or college.

You'll take these online before your report to I-Day and I think that everyone has to take them. In my case, I had taken both the AP Calc AB and AP Calc BC exams yet still had to take the online math placement exam. That said, I think I was told that if your AP Calc Exam scores were high enough, that they actually trump your online placement test scores.

Finally, on arrival after I-Day, if you have validated (either thru AP scores or online placement exams) Calc I and Calc II, you'll have the option of taking additional placement exams to validate Differential Equations and/or Calc III. Hope this make sense.

4) Chemistry. In this instance, it really is all about your performance on the Chemistry department placement exam you'll take after arriving during plebe summer. Depending on your performance, you can either validate Chem I, Chem II or be placed into a middle class called Modern Chemistry which is for kids who validate Chem I and have a strong Chem background but based on the placement exam, didn't validate Chem II.

For context, I scored a 5 on the AP Chem Exam so was likely prepared to do well on the Chemistry departmental placement exam, but I literally fell asleep (out of exhaustion from the first week of Plebe Summer - the room was quiet, air conditioned and no one was yelling or watching us :) halfway thru the placement exam and as a result, never finished the test. As a result, I was placed into Modern Chemistry which was a great class and definitely not easy. I had seen most of the material before in high school AP Chem, but it was definitely taught at a much deeper level and more quickly @ USNA.

5) Same with Physics. While I had taken the AP Physics Exam in high school, I simply was too busy during Plebe Year (you can take the exam after Plebe Summer during the academic year) to even take the placement/validation exam. I just finished taking Physics I a couple of weeks ago and loved the class; had an amazing professor who cared deeply about every student (you're going to experience this a lot @ USNA) and in hindsight, am so glad that I took the class versus validating it. I feel so much better prepared for Physics II which starts up in a week during mandatory summer school. Important to note that Physics I at USNA is Physics with Calculus and many high school AP Physics courses don't require/utilize Calc since depending on sequencing/availability, students might not have had Calculus yet.

If you have any other specific validation or placement test questions, I'm happy to answer them since it's still a pretty fresh experience. Just private message me.

Like many kids, I was both nervous and really torn about whether or not to try and validate courses coming into USNA. I had read about the pro's (potentially being able to participate in the VGEP program as an upper classman; being able to take a slightly lower course load later on (remember though, average course loads/semester hours at USNA are normally much higher than regular college - even if you validate a ton of courses) versus many of the negatives (not having a strong foundation in areas that are key building blocks for your major, having to take harder classes early on in your already stressful plebe year etc.) There is no "pat" or absolute correct path/answer on validation -- and for every student, the decisions around validation (or not) are inherently personal, based on your interests, academic background, potential major/minor as well as the fact that the "right decision" can and likely will, vary from subject to subject.

At the end of the day, my advice (albeit obvious) would be to do your best on AP Exams, as well as the online and in-person placement exams that USNA administers and see where the results fall. You don't have to accept a "validation" if you receive one -- and trust me when I say, that USNA has seen this movie before; their recommendations, based on your AP Exam scores and placement test results are usually very accurate, or at least they felt like they were to me and many of fellow Plebe shipmates. On the academic front, USNA truly wants you to succeed and while they will for sure, challenge you, I got the very strong impression that they would not intentionally set you up (or allow you to set yourself up) for failure by misplacing you in an inappropriate class level.

Good luck on your senior year and your USNA Application. I can't say that I loved or enjoyed every minute of Plebe Summer and Plebe Year -- but now that it's over (Sea Trials and Herndon withstanding,) I can share with you how fortunate I feel to have had this incredibly unique opportunity, making lifelong friends and growing in ways I could have never imagined a year ago.
Thank you so much, that was a huge help!
 
^^^^^ Superb, useful, current post. I so appreciate current mids who take the time to help others who are inbound.
@20USNA23

Appreciated the humor about “last, real, Plebe Summer.” It could also be the longest plebe year, depending on how recognition is handled. No matter what, great sea stories for later years.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top