You/your loved one achieved all that was necessary to get there. Then you/your loved one endured all the USAFA/AF things to complete the program. Did the doors to life fly open for you because you did? Was the outcome worth what you paid for it? Would you do it again today?
USAFA graduates and parents of graduates, how did it turn out?
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BigJake2000
Proud Parent C/O 2027, USAFA Grad
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- Sep 6, 2022
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It was definitely one of the top factors in my success throughout my life (so far at least). It opened many doors, provided a ton of opportunities I wouldn't have otherwise had and is something I am very proud of. I would absolutely do it again, and I would pour way more into my Academy experience the second time around. I didn't appreciate all of the cadet experiences enough when I was there. Now my daughter is a Cadet, and I'm encouraging her to take advantage of every Academy opportunity she can. It's an amazing place. But like anything else, you get out of it what you put in.
Christcorp
15-Year Member
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- May 21, 2008
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- 5,382
As a retired Air Force enlisted, I’m with the Air Force and military. I was also an academy ALO in my state recruiting high school kids to the academy. My son applied to the academy and did his 4 years. I believe for him it all worked out. Besides being a cadet he also got to play football at the academy. He graduated way up there in ranking and was offered grad school after the academy. He spent 3 years at RAND and got his Masters & PhD. He then became a STO(special ops). He is currently a Major and will be up for Lt Colonel in about a year or two from now. He’s had some great assignments, currently the deputy of operations, married with 2 kids. Been in for 12 years now and plans on 20.
So, he’s gotten a great education, including his PhD; seen a lot of the world; making good money; great family; and when he does get out, probably at 20 years, he will be 42 years old with a great pension and the skills and education to get another rewarding and good paying job. So yes, I would say it worked out well for him.
I too loved the Air Force and wouldn’t have changed a thing. But as someone who has been there, seen it, done it, have the t-shirt and the movie rights…. I know it’s not for everyone. But when you’re in your 3rd year at the academy you will know if you want to do the mandatory 5 years and get out or stay for a career.
So, he’s gotten a great education, including his PhD; seen a lot of the world; making good money; great family; and when he does get out, probably at 20 years, he will be 42 years old with a great pension and the skills and education to get another rewarding and good paying job. So yes, I would say it worked out well for him.
I too loved the Air Force and wouldn’t have changed a thing. But as someone who has been there, seen it, done it, have the t-shirt and the movie rights…. I know it’s not for everyone. But when you’re in your 3rd year at the academy you will know if you want to do the mandatory 5 years and get out or stay for a career.
Falcon74
10-Year Member
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- Feb 26, 2011
- Messages
- 148
Each graduate will have a different story and most of them will be quite illuminating about how USAFA prepared them for a life full of experiences. To say that USAFA was a pivotal point in my life would be a GREAT understatement.
In my case, I had three days between high school graduation and when I got on the airplane to fly to Colorado Springs for basic training. Thirty-two years later, I retired from active duty. In between, I spent time in civilian and military schools, taught engineering at USAFA, flew high performance and Boeing-707 class aircraft in both US and NATO organizations, served in staff positions in Europe, and capped my career as a US diplomat at the NATO political headquarters in Brussels, Belgium. Either the USAF or the VA paid for me to attend graduate schools (Purdue and RPI) to complete graduate degrees in Aeronautics & Astronautics as well as Business Administration. I flew AWACS during both the Iran/Iraq War of the 1980s and what Americans have come to call the first Gulf War (1990-1991). During my active duty time, I lived in different countries of both Europe and the Middle East which allowed me to experience different cultures firsthand. I spent half of my career living in foreign countries.
More importantly and to the essence of your question, what would I have done if I had NOT attended USAFA? I probably would have gone to college and pursued an engineering job after graduation. I have no idea what options I would have had beyond that first assumption. I find it unlikely that I would have had the breadth of opportunities that I experienced in the USAF. In the USAF, I learned how officers are expected to function at much more senior levels, given their age, than their civilian counterparts.
My post active-duty career was in the USAF as a civilian. Graduate degrees in engineering and management as well as my previous experience as an AWACS instructor pilot made me an ideal candidate for the AWACS program office where upgrades were planned for future fleet modifications. I observed young USAF engineers representing the USAF in contract negotiations with Boeing where the Boeing side of the table was full of engineers old enough to have been the parents of the USAF engineers. The same was true of USAF officer program managers when compared to their civilian counterparts. USAF officers were expected to deal with greater responsibilities at much younger ages than their civilian counterparts.
I once went to a high school 25th reunion and observed that the differences between my high school classmates’ ideas of what was part of a successful career and those that I had experienced in the USAF were totally different. I no longer had a common framework for evaluating life’s opportunities. I enjoyed seeing old classmates, but we had almost nothing in common when it came to professional responsibilities and opportunities. Graduating from USAFA put me on a track that provided leadership and experience opportunities that my high school peers would never see regardless of their age.
Today, I am fully retired and I communicate with my USAFA classmates and fellow graduates on a regular basis. I almost never communicate with my high school classmates. Training at USAFA and experience gained after graduation opened doors that my civilian peers would never see. One open door led to the next open door throughout my career both on active duty and as a USAF retiree working as a USAF civilian. Today, I serve my community and my fellow veterans.
In my case, I had three days between high school graduation and when I got on the airplane to fly to Colorado Springs for basic training. Thirty-two years later, I retired from active duty. In between, I spent time in civilian and military schools, taught engineering at USAFA, flew high performance and Boeing-707 class aircraft in both US and NATO organizations, served in staff positions in Europe, and capped my career as a US diplomat at the NATO political headquarters in Brussels, Belgium. Either the USAF or the VA paid for me to attend graduate schools (Purdue and RPI) to complete graduate degrees in Aeronautics & Astronautics as well as Business Administration. I flew AWACS during both the Iran/Iraq War of the 1980s and what Americans have come to call the first Gulf War (1990-1991). During my active duty time, I lived in different countries of both Europe and the Middle East which allowed me to experience different cultures firsthand. I spent half of my career living in foreign countries.
More importantly and to the essence of your question, what would I have done if I had NOT attended USAFA? I probably would have gone to college and pursued an engineering job after graduation. I have no idea what options I would have had beyond that first assumption. I find it unlikely that I would have had the breadth of opportunities that I experienced in the USAF. In the USAF, I learned how officers are expected to function at much more senior levels, given their age, than their civilian counterparts.
My post active-duty career was in the USAF as a civilian. Graduate degrees in engineering and management as well as my previous experience as an AWACS instructor pilot made me an ideal candidate for the AWACS program office where upgrades were planned for future fleet modifications. I observed young USAF engineers representing the USAF in contract negotiations with Boeing where the Boeing side of the table was full of engineers old enough to have been the parents of the USAF engineers. The same was true of USAF officer program managers when compared to their civilian counterparts. USAF officers were expected to deal with greater responsibilities at much younger ages than their civilian counterparts.
I once went to a high school 25th reunion and observed that the differences between my high school classmates’ ideas of what was part of a successful career and those that I had experienced in the USAF were totally different. I no longer had a common framework for evaluating life’s opportunities. I enjoyed seeing old classmates, but we had almost nothing in common when it came to professional responsibilities and opportunities. Graduating from USAFA put me on a track that provided leadership and experience opportunities that my high school peers would never see regardless of their age.
Today, I am fully retired and I communicate with my USAFA classmates and fellow graduates on a regular basis. I almost never communicate with my high school classmates. Training at USAFA and experience gained after graduation opened doors that my civilian peers would never see. One open door led to the next open door throughout my career both on active duty and as a USAF retiree working as a USAF civilian. Today, I serve my community and my fellow veterans.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for those responses, and to all of you for you/your family’s service (past, present and future). I was starting to worry intensely when I got no initial reply. I am a nervous, no-military-background parent over here, looking at conflict on the national horizon. My daughter got THE call from our congressman this morning and I really needed to hear how this could end well. I appreciate the time you took to share your thoughts, that has comforted me more than I can express at the moment.
Falcon74
10-Year Member
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2011
- Messages
- 148
For the record, I had no military family members. I arrived at USAFA without knowing exactly what to expect. Like many of my classmates, we survived. Although I heard that hazing wasn't allowed, I didn't understand the difference between hazing and "Fourth Class Training" when I arrived on the "Bring Me Men" ramp. The ramp has since been renamed for obvious reasons. I was a cadet in the days before women were allowed to be cadets. I used to tell my DS that hazing was like having an upperclassman ordering me to shine his shoes. Such an order would have been improper. The upper classman could order me to shine MY shoes as part of Fourth Class Training. Good luck to your daughter. She will soon find that her classmates form her new family.
BTW, when I attended a joint USMA/USAFA football watch party a few years ago, I came across the parents of a female Doolie. The parents told me that their daughter considered her classmates and her squadron to be her new "family" (not to replace her biological family).
BTW, when I attended a joint USMA/USAFA football watch party a few years ago, I came across the parents of a female Doolie. The parents told me that their daughter considered her classmates and her squadron to be her new "family" (not to replace her biological family).
What specific opportunities would you recommend taking advantage of?
I can't opine on whether it works out for everyone. Everyone has their own life path. My DD is entering USAFA this coming year, and it is a new journey for us....but, several of my best friends went thru SA's and none of them have any regrets -- actually they all, upon hearing of DD's appointment were super-supportive. I had a friend in college that left WP after his first year -- he is doing well. Another post-college friend left the Navy after not making it through BUDS. He is also doing very well. You've raised a DD/DS who is contemplating where to place themselves in the upper percentile. Well done. Whether it is a SA or another path, that that opportunity exists is a testament to you. Be proud and support them regardless -- few get this opportunity.
raimius
15-Year Member
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2006
- Messages
- 3,014
I've had an interesting and boring time. Definitely more interesting than many people's experiences (including a couple times I almost hurt/killed myself by accident and also some times I marveled at how cool my life was), but also much less interesting than the people who get movies made about their lives.
Honestly, the most important work I've done might have been administrative processing during the Afghan withdrawal, and I don't actually know if it saved anyone. My part was small, and we had a seemingly poor success rate at getting our partners and their families out from near certain death by the Taliban.
Was it worth it and would I do it again? Yeah, but I also don't really know the alternative. Becoming an electrical engineer at a random company sounded less interesting than becoming an AF pilot to 18 year old me. So far, the education was good, the pay pretty decent, and the experiences/stories have been at least moderately entertaining. The service academies open some interesting opportunities. Some are great. Some are so-so. Some are pretty monotonous.
Sometimes flying orbits over convoys in North Dakota got boring. Sometimes flying approaches or takeoffs where you had to use exactly 100% of the aircraft's capabilities to succeed were exciting...and mildly terrifying. Sometimes I got to go to really cool places. Sometimes the trips were really boring.
It is what you make it, but it also depends on timing and opportunities.
...that's life, apparently.
Honestly, the most important work I've done might have been administrative processing during the Afghan withdrawal, and I don't actually know if it saved anyone. My part was small, and we had a seemingly poor success rate at getting our partners and their families out from near certain death by the Taliban.
Was it worth it and would I do it again? Yeah, but I also don't really know the alternative. Becoming an electrical engineer at a random company sounded less interesting than becoming an AF pilot to 18 year old me. So far, the education was good, the pay pretty decent, and the experiences/stories have been at least moderately entertaining. The service academies open some interesting opportunities. Some are great. Some are so-so. Some are pretty monotonous.
Sometimes flying orbits over convoys in North Dakota got boring. Sometimes flying approaches or takeoffs where you had to use exactly 100% of the aircraft's capabilities to succeed were exciting...and mildly terrifying. Sometimes I got to go to really cool places. Sometimes the trips were really boring.
It is what you make it, but it also depends on timing and opportunities.
...that's life, apparently.
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2017
- Messages
- 9,387
Great post, and great responses.
Imo, the internal, competitive drive (or not) within the person is what will send a person on their life trajectory.
So, type of student that pursues and attains an appointment to a SA, is the type of person that will likely push themselves to succeed wherever they end up.
I’ve got 4 kiddos. Two associated with a SA (remains to be seen where they end of on the ‘successful gauge), and the two older are not. All are doing very well. The older two, non SA, hold themselves to high standards and have also quickly established themselves at you ages as ‘successful’ in the personal and profession lives.
IMO, it’s the internal drive and standards of the person that makes one successful, no matter where they land.
Imo, the internal, competitive drive (or not) within the person is what will send a person on their life trajectory.
So, type of student that pursues and attains an appointment to a SA, is the type of person that will likely push themselves to succeed wherever they end up.
I’ve got 4 kiddos. Two associated with a SA (remains to be seen where they end of on the ‘successful gauge), and the two older are not. All are doing very well. The older two, non SA, hold themselves to high standards and have also quickly established themselves at you ages as ‘successful’ in the personal and profession lives.
IMO, it’s the internal drive and standards of the person that makes one successful, no matter where they land.
I'll be that guy who dares to be disagreeable...
The elite education that USAFA offers in NO WAY guarantees an elite outcome on active duty or later in civilian life. The above responses echo those I heard while in attendance and I learned the hard way that USAFA will not honor any of its promises that it doesn't give you in writing. They'll make you a 2Lt in four years, but those "mentors, friendships, and elite-ness" that graduates, AOCs, and the PTB dangled in front of us as carrots to distract us from our daily adversities turned out to be mostly false (i.e., results may vary).
No offense to the those who have replied above, but I suspect they owe their own private success to more than the institution itself (i.e., political connections). Don't get me wrong, I'm not disparaging their methods, but simply stating that politics are a fact of life and that many USAFA graduates depart the institution after four years not in possession of the relationships that a small minority forge by chance meetings or even arrive with on day one. Do you think Gen Goldfein's son might have a leg up on his fellow graduates? USAFA does afford some political opportunities, but "equal opportunity" isn't factored in to who they allow into the "gold ole boys" club. Even amongst USAFA graduates, there are varying degrees of political potential, and therefore advancement.
USAFA alumni are also not held to the same level of esteem as those who came before them on active duty. More than once I worked for commanders who were anything but discrete with their resentment toward USAFA grads. They each had their reasons, but should a USAFA graduate find themselves working for such a person, it could prove to be a career-derailment or at the very least a trying experience, despite their best intentions. DEI has also permeated the promotion and assignment systems leading to a more diverse General Officer corps. If you review our promotion statistics, you'll see that the number of GO's hailing from ROTC programs or OTS has grown markedly since 2000. Being a USAFA grad doesn't mean as much as it once did.
The school afforded me a fantastic education, healthy habits, and a satisfying career. Many of the grueling courses I completed and once thought useless turned out to provide keen insight later. I have USAFA to thank for my relative athleticism post retirement and now in my 40s - the school instilled in me some healthy habits! I retired with a collection of marketable skills and experiences, some of which come from my four years at the institution. Having said all of that, the popular belief that everyone who walks away from that institution is "elite" is hyperbole. Yes, USAFA does breed success, but the overwhelming lot of us will never see the inside of the CSAF's office. Happy is the graduate who formulates their own standards for success soon after departing USAFA.
Would I do it all over again? Truth be told, I'm not sure. I feel successful, but I never lived up to the overinflated standards of the PTB. The school is unique, but the end product is the same as ROTC or OTS: a gold bar and the opportunity to serve, nothing more.