USMA or USAFA experience?

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flowers33

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Jun 22, 2022
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Hi everyone,

I would like to ask for insight and experiences of those who know a lot about USAFA and USMA. I am grateful for the opportunity to be accepted by both USMA and USAFA, but I am conflicted as to which academy to attend.

The major that I want to have, Foreign Area Studies, and the career that I want to pursue in the long run, Intelligence Officer then Foreign Area Officer, are attainable if I go to either academy. West Point was my first choice since junior year of high school (and I've visited campus before) but I'm not sure if I would prefer the Air Force experience more. I'm unable to visit Colorado and I don't have many people to ask specifically about the USAFA experience. A few peers have only said that USAFA would comparatively be slightly less physically demanding (compared with USMA), that Air Force comparatively tends to be more academically focused (even though both academies will be academically challenging), and I would have access to "better" resources/have a "better" quality of life in Air Force bases. However, USMA is filled with history, traditions, and more strictness, which I favor.

Please share any insight of your experiences; it's really appreciated. When it comes down to it, I know that I want to serve and that's #1. I know that both academies will DEFINITELY be challenging in all aspects. I just don't know which path would be in my best interests both in the short and long run.
 
School is only 4 years, your choice of service is a lifetime. I would focus more on where you want to be over the next 25 years, versus the next four. Career, job opportunities, professional development, lifestyle, family life, etc versus USAFA vs USMA.
 
Here at USAFA Intel is a fairly competitive career field, I believe each class receives ~40-70 slots per year. On the positive side, there are more paths to FAO than you might initially believe. For example, there are many Air Force officers who go pilot, pick up a 2nd language/do LEAP for their first tour, and then switch over to FAO. Often times they are desired for FAO slots over pure intel because of their ability to serve as Air Liaisons.

I've had the chance to spend time with several USMA cadets during my time as a cadet. In between the typically banter, a few key differences emerged which I think we would all agree upon. USAFA quality of life as an upper class cadet is much better, but we pay for it through the sweat and tears of Doolie year. If you are looking for a challenge you will not be disappointed regardless of where you go. (Plus we beat their Sandhurst team last year, I bet they didn't tell you that!). Finally, it seems that USMA has a more tight-knit/unified culture. (Probably because they never get to leave base). But, once again, you can definitely find the same thing at USAFA on a smaller scale via all the teams/clubs available.

USMA is definitely more strict. A friend I had who went on exchange there would get corrected x10 times a day to blouse the pants of his flight suit when he wore it on Fridays. (the AFI says not to blouse flight suit pants). But hey, I guess their diet of crayons and dirt was taking it's toll.

Anyways, congrats on your appointments! USAFA was definitely the right choice for me, and I hope you will join us. Good luck on your decision!
 
I'm a USAFA graduate with 24 years active duty service. I was an intelligence officer and was a FAO. The USAF FAO program attempted to model itself after the Army's outstanding FAO program after 9/11. It has gone through many changes. I'd encourage you to go to https://www.safia.hq.af.mil/Force-Development/International-Affairs-Specialist/Foreign-Area-Officer/ for more info. Basically, to become a FAO, you need a master's degree in that area of the world (I've got a National Security Affairs Master's with a Latin American emphasis) that the USAF paid for, as well as language skills, and finally an immersion tour. Once certified, you are encouraged to do a tour in your region every other assignment. Whether you're a pilot, missile officer, or intel, the FAO Assignment Branch will work with you to get you every other assignment in your area. That doesn't mean you have to be assigned physically to Latin America if you are a LATAM FAO - it just means you have to have assignments focused on that region. For example, I did one tour at 12AF in Tucson, AZ and another at USSOUTHCOM headquarters in Miami. Two other things to mention on the USAF FAO program: 1) you may not get the region of the world you want, especially if the USAF pays for your Master's and language training; 2) your chosen career field (intel, pilot) may not release you every other assignment depending upon the needs of the USAF, especially as you make your way up in rank. As for your question about the difference between USAFA and USMA, I can only speak to USAFA. It is academically and physically rigorous - typically, sophomore year is when USAFA cadets get eliminated for academic proficiency. As for getting the AFSC (job specialty) out of USAFA that you want, it depends upon the needs of the USAF (how many slots they have for intel) and your order of merit. Your military and academic standing all play into when you get to make your career selection based upon your standing versus your classmates. Let me know if you have any follow-up questions.
 
Unable to visit Colorado? Why do you say this. Doesn’t make sense. It’s only a decision that will affect the rest of your life. What could get in the way of visiting?
 
Iwutke said:
Unable to visit Colorado? Why do you say this. Doesn’t make sense. It’s only a decision that will affect the rest of your life. What could get in the way of visiting?
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Lots of things. Finances, schedules, proximity, etc. USAFA is a great place to visit but there are plenty for whom I-day is their first glimpse of it.

I was an Intel officer in the AF and married to a USMA grad. We had very different experiences. He wasn't Intel but we knew several. The organization and mission are so different. You need to see which one would fit you.

My ds was trying to decide between USAFA and USMA last year. He wants to be in cyber but knows that his career field is not in his hands. He chose USAFA based on the fact that there were more options he'd be happy with. In the Army, he only wanted cyber. In the AF, he'd be happy with cyber, Intel, acquisitions, and possibly a few more. That and the AF lifestyle fits him better than the Army. He is very happy with his decision so far.
 
First off, I would focus more on which service you prefer than just 4 years at the academy. Just like someone mentioned above, school is just 4 years and your military career is much longer than that.

To provide you with some insights on both academies, I would say USAFA is more physically demanding your 4 deg (freshman) year than USMA. We have a plebe in our squadron who just came over from West Point who told me that at West Point there are no such things like training sessions.
Here at USAFA, there are multiple rigorous (both physically and mentally) training sessions planned out by upperclassmen per week that 4 degs need to attend unless they have valid excuses. If you just simply compare USMA's ACFT and IOCT versus USAFA's PFT and AFT, I would agree USMA may be a bit more physically rigorous but like I said you need to take into account other factors such as training sessions.
With that being said, you will have a "harsher" time as a Doolie at USAFA than as a plebe at West Point. However, after recognition USAFA cadets will have much more freedom and privileges than USMA cadets; USAFA's recognized Doolies will have more privilege than pre-spring break USMA Cows (Juniors).

USAFA's summers will be more "fun" than those of USMA. Because West Point doesn't have training sessions during the academic year, they heavily focus on it during the summers. You will be doing a lot of rigorous military training such as the CFT (Cadet Field Training), Air Assault, etc. As a USAFA cadet, the only rigorous summer training that I can think of is CST (Combat Survival Training).

You mentioned that you prefer strictness and traditions. I am totally like that as well. Though I am happy to be a cadet at USAFA and my career aspirations (Acquisitions/Project Management) align more with the AF than the Army, one of the few things I admire and have huge respect towards USMA that USAFA seems to lack is tradition and accountability. Based on my numerous conversations with USMA exchangers, I feel that events are more organized and taken seriously at WP than at USAFA. This may be because of Army's "people based" culture and WP's emphasis on military aspects than academics compared to technology driven AF culture. But again these are just some anecdotal evidence that I came across...

I will add though the AF is known to treat is people better than the Army. Here's what one of the AOCs (Air Force 0-5) told me about the two services. The Army focuses very heavily on its prestige and public affairs: basically very conscious on how they're viewed by the public. However on the flip side, they are not too interested in each individual member probably because they're too big of a service. AF on the other hand may lag behind Army in terms of prestige (due to its short history) but they have humanitarian policies like letting you choose your duty station when a personal issue pops up which will not likely happen in the Army. That just shows how much better treatment you will get in all aspects in the AF. Also I would think about when or if your plans change where you are no longer interested in FAO or Intelligence field. There are a ton of AF jobs that will transfer very well in the civilian sector while most Army jobs won't. It's no longer the 90s where if you graduated from a SA and served 5 years, you automatically get a high paying job. There are ton of vets that are leaving service and "SA + 5 years of leadership" package isn't that crazy impressive anymore relatively. You will have to have your own specialty other than just plain old "leadership experience" to be competitive in the civilian job market. I personally think you will be able to market yourself better in the civilian world as a USAFA grad coming out of the AF than USMA grad out of the Army.

Sorry for the super long response but I hope it helps. I know my views are biased but I was in your shoes not too long ago so I know what it feels like to choose between two great options.
 
flowers33 said:
Hi everyone,

I would like to ask for insight and experiences of those who know a lot about USAFA and USMA. I am grateful for the opportunity to be accepted by both USMA and USAFA, but I am conflicted as to which academy to attend.

The major that I want to have, Foreign Area Studies, and the career that I want to pursue in the long run, Intelligence Officer then Foreign Area Officer, are attainable if I go to either academy. West Point was my first choice since junior year of high school (and I've visited campus before) but I'm not sure if I would prefer the Air Force experience more. I'm unable to visit Colorado and I don't have many people to ask specifically about the USAFA experience. A few peers have only said that USAFA would comparatively be slightly less physically demanding (compared with USMA), that Air Force comparatively tends to be more academically focused (even though both academies will be academically challenging), and I would have access to "better" resources/have a "better" quality of life in Air Force bases. However, USMA is filled with history, traditions, and more strictness, which I favor.

Please share any insight of your experiences; it's really appreciated. When it comes down to it, I know that I want to serve and that's #1. I know that both academies will DEFINITELY be challenging in all aspects. I just don't know which path would be in my best interests both in the short and long run.
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Flowers33,

My Background: I happen to be a USAFA graduate (28+ years of commissioned service) with a son that is a USMA graduate. I was also a USAFA faculty assistant professor.

My son's decision: My son seriously considered both USAFA and USMA, but, despite three nominations for USAFA, he only got one offer (USMA). He was a very strong engineering major candidate. If he had received two appointment offers, I don't know which academy he might have selected. He liked the legacy aspect of following me to USAFA and the strength of the engineering curriculum, but he liked the physical aspects of USMA. I personally thought that he would be a better fit to the USAF and suggested that he consider cross-commissioning at graduation. He considered that option, but didn't want to be considered a "second-class" cadet for the remainder of his time at USMA once it was known that he applied for cross-commissioning. To make a long story short, he was not that happy with the US Army after graduation and decided to leave the army after serving his service commitment.

BOTTOM LINE: Both academies are outstanding opportunities for young men/women. Like what T-37IP said above, you should focus on where you want to be for your career and not just the first four years. PM me if you would like to know more.
 
Falcon74 said:
Flowers33,

My Background: I happen to be a USAFA graduate (28+ years of commissioned service) with a son that is a USMA graduate. I was also a USAFA faculty assistant professor.

My son's decision: My son seriously considered both USAFA and USMA, but, despite three nominations for USAFA, he only got one offer (USMA). He was a very strong engineering major candidate. If he had received two appointment offers, I don't know which academy he might have selected. He liked the legacy aspect of following me to USAFA and the strength of the engineering curriculum, but he liked the physical aspects of USMA. I personally thought that he would be a better fit to the USAF and suggested that he consider cross-commissioning at graduation. He considered that option, but didn't want to be considered a "second-class" cadet for the remainder of his time at USMA once it was known that he applied for cross-commissioning. To make a long story short, he was not that happy with the US Army after graduation and decided to leave the army after serving his service commitment.

BOTTOM LINE: Both academies are outstanding opportunities for young men/women. Like what T-37IP said above, you should focus on where you want to be for your career and not just the first four years. PM me if you would like to know more.
Click to expand...
We have a good friend that went to USMA and cross-commissioned into the USAF to fly. He had a great career and retired as an O-6. My DH calls him the smartest man alive because he went to the "best" academy and served in the "best" military service. Ha! I only agree with half of DH's opinion.

Before receiving his appointment to USAFA, my DS was sitting on a USMA appointment for a couple of months and that path really appealed to him (although he realized that the chances of cross-commissioning are low and would have been happy to serve in the Army). He was also considering declining USMA and reapplying to USAFA the following year. I was very suprised that he was still torn between the two once his USAFA appointment came in. I think the traditions of USMA and the fact that he would have been a 4th gen legacy were big factors in the decision but AF won in the end.

As an aside, people kept asking DH and I if we were pressuring him to choose our respective academy. The answer to that was always a resounding NO. He needed to choose for himself and only he knew which would be best for him. They are both great places to be.
 
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