USMMA vs USNA

Laker7745:

Read "beyond"'s other posts and you'll realize he does indeed go to USMMA and he's got a point - you may not like it but he has a valid point. Others, myself included basically said the same thing to you in a more polite manner. The primary purpose of USMMA is to prepare and train US Merchant Mariners. Yes you can do what you are aspiring to but it's NOT the purpose nor is it an easy path that makes you an exceptionally well prepared to become USMC officer - you will have to work even hard to be so. Further spouting off about things and people who don't agree with you really isn't what will help you get to where you want to be....

ReconPing: You get it.
 
If you're looking for someone to convince you that USMMA is better at making Marine officers than USNA or NROTC, I don't think that's happening.

You can commission USMC from USAFA or USMA too. Those are pretty decent military schools too. Doesn't mean it's a good idea to enter a service academy with no intention whatsoever of joining the service it represents.
 
nuensis and reconping - sometimes I really wish there was a "like" button on posts for this forum....:smile:
 
jasperdog said:
Laker7745:



Read "beyond"'s other posts and you'll realize he does indeed go to USMMA and he's got a point - you may not like it but he has a valid point. Others, myself included basically said the same thing to you in a more polite manner. The primary purpose of USMMA is to prepare and train US Merchant Mariners. Yes you can do what you are aspiring to but it's NOT the purpose nor is it an easy path that makes you an exceptionally well prepared to become USMC officer - you will have to work even hard to be so. Further spouting off about things and people who don't agree with you really isn't what will help you get to where you want to be....



ReconPing: You get it.
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It has nothing to do with him disagreeing with my opinion of MY future which is fine, it's how he came across, saying that my gpa was too low for he Naval Academy so I go here as a result as if he actually knows me, that's my issue, and I know the purpose is to bring about professional mariners but oh well, so be it, it's still a route and a commission for me, what the university is designed for is the least of my worries or concerns because I love the ocean anyway, I come from a Coast Guard background which I grew up with, so I would love going here.
 
laker7745 said:
what the university is designed for is the least of my worries or concerns
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That is completely backwards from how you should be thinking about any college you are thinking of attending.

What the college is designed for is central to its performance of its mission. Given that it will be built around those ideals and will have biases towards those outcomes.

To think it is unimportant is naive.

Also, periods are your friend.

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kp2001 said:
That is completely backwards from how you should be thinking about any college you are thinking of attending.

What the college is designed for is central to its performance of its mission. Given that it will be built around those ideals and will have biases towards those outcomes.

To think it is unimportant is naive.

Also, periods are your friend.

Sent using the Service Academy Forums® mobile app
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"get out of here, no way in hell you went to Kings Point"
 
kp2001 said:
Also, periods are your friend.

Sent using the Service Academy Forums® mobile app
Click to expand...
He proved the valuable grammatical lesson I learned from Wasserman. Commas are the most overused punctuation mark in the English language.
 
kp2001 said:
Also, periods are your friend.
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I've heard this before ... Back in the day .... Capt A.A Norton is no doubt holding up a copy of the MLA Handbook I was issued Plebe Year the fall of 1978 and smiling down on us all...
 
laker, the mission of the SA should be of interest to you. In my opinion, USMMA of all the SAs, education track is very focused on its mission of producing Merchant Mariners. If this is not a career field you are looking for, then its best not to apply. Yes, there are options to apply for Active Duty upon graduation. I am a USNA grad, so here are some questions for King's Points grads... its sounds like some Mids do graduate and go active duty, what is the percentage that request this and get it? For Marine Corps? Are there Marines stationed at USMMA at all? For those that did commission USMC, did they get any other summer training with the USMC (I know your training is different with sea years)? Did they go to OCS upon graduation?

I would think these are the important questions. And don't discount any part of the admissions process. GPA will be looked at many, many ways such as school profiled, how you did on standardized tests, etc. If you have a 4.5 and average SATs, that says something to them and vice versa.

I had a West Point grad in my TBS company with me. He had more ground training in his 4 years at USMA than we did as USNA grads, but he was more lost than any USNA grad. Simply put, the Marine Corps is different than the Army. Coming from USMMA to be a Marine, would put you really behind the power curve and make a challenging path (not impossible). If your ultimate goal is to be a Marine Corps officer, USNA should be your #1 pick and then a NROTC - MO scholarship. There are no guarantees coming out of USMMA that there would even be spots available. Also, if you want to be a Marine Officer, you will need to learn how to deal with everyone with respect and keep an open mind (especially as a Junior Officer). Blasting others on this forum when you asked for opinions really isn't' going to accomplish anything. I think the above questions are just a small sample of some of the questions you should be asking about attending USMMA.
 
Oh and commissioning between services is extremely difficult and nearly impossible. It happened more with the Army a few years ago as the services grew. Its a handful a year at the most. With the services downsizing right now... the chances are disappearing and boards are even canceling for these kinds of things.
 
As many have already previously stated, there may be opportunities to commission into another service upon graduating from Kings Point, but that service has to have a need to fill and a desire to want you.

If your only goal upon graduation from Kings Point is to be a USMC officer, then I suggest you take another path. In 2013, there was only one KP grad that went USMC. In 2014, there were two. So a total of three USMC officers out of approximately 425 graduates; that's less than 1%. Overall not great odds.
 
NavyHoops said:
... its sounds like some Mids do graduate and go active duty, what is the percentage that request this and get it? For Marine Corps? Are there Marines stationed at USMMA at all? For those that did commission USMC, did they get any other summer training with the USMC (I know your training is different with sea years)? Did they go to OCS upon graduation? ...
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1) As far as I know everyone who wanted to go Active Duty in the recent past (I think ever but as far as I know from the Classes of 2006 through 2014) has been able to do so and as far as I know they were able to do so in their service of their choice - if they worked at it.

2) Yes there is a Marine stationed at USMMA as well as a member of each of the Services and this has been so since the tenure of VADM Stewart as Superintendent. For the very reasons you allude.

3) Generally yes the USMC person stationed at USMMA runs a USMC Operations (aka Marine Ops) program and part of that is the "opportunity" to go to a USMC Summer Program (al be it I understand abbreviated).

4) Yes they have to go to OCS at Quantico upon graduation as far as I know.

All that said I still think that graduating from either USNA or a USMC NROTC program prepares one in a far more focused manner to commission as a USMC 2nd LT and is a much easier road to get there via.
 
Navy1981 said:
As many have already previously stated, there may be opportunities to commission into another service upon graduating from Kings Point, but that service has to have a need to fill and a desire to want you.

If your only goal upon graduation from Kings Point is to be a USMC officer, then I suggest you take another path. In 2013, there was only one KP grad that went USMC. In 2014, there were two. So a total of three USMC officers out of approximately 425 graduates; that's less than 1%. Overall not great odds.
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If only three KP grads commissioned USMC in the past two years, then you are correct, less than 1% of the graduating class went USMC.

What we need to know is, how many KP Midshipmen attempted to commission into the the USMC. If only three in the past two years actually pursued the USMC, then that is 100%. Terrific odds.
 
Thanks jasperdog for the info. Was curious about that. If they do go to OCS upon graduation then they will not commission until they complete that school. Can't remember exactly the numbers, but Kinnem is going to visit his son who is completing OCS this week. I think he said in another post the wash out rate was around 25-30% or so. This sounds like pretty much on par with what I have seen over the years. So even though it earns you a spot at OCS, it is no guarantee. Hopefully this gives Laker some information and data to crunch on.
 
NavyHoops said:
Thanks jasperdog for the info. Was curious about that. If they do go to OCS upon graduation then they will not commission until they complete that school. ....
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Not true they are commissioned as 2 LT at USMMA graduation - they put their 2 LT bars on t graduation so even though they go through OCS they do so as 2 LT so I'm not sure how that works ... I defer too someone who has done it or at least knows the real deal there are probably several here on the forum or at least there used to be...
 
NavyHoops said:
laker, the mission of the SA should be of interest to you. In my opinion, USMMA of all the SAs, education track is very focused on its mission of producing Merchant Mariners. If this is not a career field you are looking for, then its best not to apply. Yes, there are options to apply for Active Duty upon graduation. I am a USNA grad, so here are some questions for King's Points grads... its sounds like some Mids do graduate and go active duty, what is the percentage that request this and get it? For Marine Corps? Are there Marines stationed at USMMA at all? For those that did commission USMC, did they get any other summer training with the USMC (I know your training is different with sea years)? Did they go to OCS upon graduation?



I would think these are the important questions. And don't discount any part of the admissions process. GPA will be looked at many, many ways such as school profiled, how you did on standardized tests, etc. If you have a 4.5 and average SATs, that says something to them and vice versa.



I had a West Point grad in my TBS company with me. He had more ground training in his 4 years at USMA than we did as USNA grads, but he was more lost than any USNA grad. Simply put, the Marine Corps is different than the Army. Coming from USMMA to be a Marine, would put you really behind the power curve and make a challenging path (not impossible). If your ultimate goal is to be a Marine Corps officer, USNA should be your #1 pick and then a NROTC - MO scholarship. There are no guarantees coming out of USMMA that there would even be spots available. Also, if you want to be a Marine Officer, you will need to learn how to deal with everyone with respect and keep an open mind (especially as a Junior Officer). Blasting others on this forum when you asked for opinions really isn't' going to accomplish anything. I think the above questions are just a small sample of some of the questions you should be asking about attending USMMA.
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While I appreciate the input I am also open to the Air Force and while I do know that all Marines have infantry training, I want to fly in the military wether it be Coast Guard, Marine Corps, Air Force or Navy which reminds me, what is the policy on applying for more than one commission and if I were to recieve more than one offer would I be allowed to chose? Any info would help.
 
The Marine Ops program at USMMA is open to anybody who wishes to become a Marine Officer. I have never heard of anybody being turned away from commissioning into the Marine Corps from USMMA as long as they graduated. The Marine Ops program can be a little tough on the midshipman they must attend classes which usually start very early in the morning and before they attend their mandatory Academy classes.

Between the summer of their Junior and Senior years they will go to Quantico for 6 weeks and begin their initial Marine Corps training (I believe it is part of the PLC program but Navy Academy and USMMA Midshipman only have to attend 6 weeks, I have also heard it called the Bull Dog Program in the past). At graduation they are commissioned into the Marine Corps as 2nd Lieutenants. After commissioning they return to Quantico for the Basic School which lasts one year. For the USMMA Midshipman their initial six week period at Quantico also counts as their two week internship which is required by the Academy.

For the class of 2015 it is going to be a little different because of the government shut down at least for the A splitters. The A splitters in order to get their required sea days in couldn’t fit the initial six training period at Quantico in, so they will not be commissioned when they graduate. We are really not sure yet if they will go to Quantico for only six weeks after they graduate or just go into the OCS program.

From what I understand the Midshipman at USMMA in the Marine Corps Ops program are a pretty close bunch and love it. Once they have graduated the Marine Officers from Kings Point have a pretty good reputation in the fleet.

USMMA is a great school if you wish to go to the Marine Corps but it is tough to graduate from. Good Luck To You.
 
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jasperdog said:
2) Yes there is a Marine stationed at USMMA as well as a member of each of the Services and this has been so since the tenure of VADM Stewart as Superintendent. For the very reasons you allude.
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This goes as far back as RADM Krinsky at least. Of course, it is for the most part unnecessary to have an active duty Marine at KP nowadays since most of the Commandants staff are former Marines.
 
kp2001 said:
...

Also, periods are your friend.

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KP2001:

For some reason I was browsing back through this thread and I reread this post and it tickled me reading this line, especially in like of the fact you are a Medical Doctor now. #DoubleEntendre'

:shake:
 
Well this thing came back to the top so here is my input based on what I've seen:

Commissioning Navy:
Possible, NFO seems to be easiest, Pilot and SWO are a bit harder. A few people shooting for reactors and some restricted line communities this year, we'll see how it goes.

Coast Guard:
A few, years ago it was possible to get some decent billets right out of the gate. Lately though I don't know of anyone getting anything other than inspections, with the option to transfer to something a little more glamorous later.

Air force:
Essentially closed to KP. I know of one person in 2012 who got an air force slot, no one from 2013, 2014, and I am 100% that no one from 2015 got an air force slot. The rumor mill here says that the board that evaluates the Air Force packages is a regional thing, we compete with Manhattan college for Air Force billets, and the billets are filled with those folks first.

Marine Corps:
Very tough, but doable. I think one 2015'r will commission. Getting the summer training in and completing your sea time is tough. Even tougher when the government shuts down for three weeks.

Army:
I couldn't tell you why, but it seems more people commission active duty Army than any other branch. Decent billets, and as recently as 2012 we had less applicants than flight slots. Maj Burgos did a really fantastic job making things happen for KP folks, he is retired now, so I'm not sure what the future will hold.
 
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