USNA or USCGA?

Chuckle as you might, conventional wisdom enjoined with stats and the absence of them, might lend the last laugh to others, though. Pound away, if you must. We've all been there, thankfully. But you might want to avoid entering a debate contest for fear you'd have to back-up your statements. I'll stick with the point, betting not a plug nickle on the well-meaning, but incredible claim you proclaim and pound about. Who was it said, "we're all entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts." Or truths.

Which is ... there is not a snow-ball's chance in New London that it's tougher, more competitive, more selective in its admissions process than USNA. Now ... or back in "the day" you claim. I fear you've been living under a delusion all these admissions seasons.

Again, not to denigrate nor pedestal-place one group over the other. They are totally different businesses, admissions, missions, and misplaced in trying to compare them. Many try. A few even manage to move from one to the other. But those rare anecdotes only illustrate the differances, not the similarities.
 
Chuckle as you might, conventional wisdom enjoined with stats and the absence of them, might lend the last laugh to others, though. Pound away, if you must. We've all been there, thankfully. But you might want to avoid entering a debate contest for fear you'd have to back-up your statements. I'll stick with the point, betting not a plug nickle on the well-meaning, but incredible claim you proclaim and pound about. Who was it said, "we're all entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts." Or truths.

Which is ... there is not a snow-ball's chance in New London that it's tougher, more competitive, more selective in its admissions process than USNA. Now ... or back in "the day" you claim. I fear you've been living under a delusion all these admissions seasons.

Again, not to denigrate nor pedestal-place one group over the other. They are totally different businesses, admissions, missions, and misplaced in trying to compare them. Many try. A few even manage to move from one to the other. But those rare anecdotes only illustrate the differances, not the similarities.


I rest my case. Whistle Pig illustrates a certain concept many in the Navy already know about USNA. Just talked to a prior Navy SEAL friend about it. His numbers include "interest" applications, the ones initiated, not completed. The Coast Guard Academy numbers don't include those number bumps. That inflates numbers.

You're welcome to try for both. If you get into CGA, you'll probably get into USNA...may not work the other way around. And have no fear, USNA is not nearly as difficult as he would have you believe. Doesn't mean it's easy, but he's working with numbers as doctored as the "Global Force for Good" commercials. Take from them what you will.

For the original poster; in addition to doing your own research, talk to graduates of both, but also talk to enlisted members of both about the product of the officers each institution puts out. I did that and the results were surprising to me (at the time).
 
Which is ... there is not a snow-ball's chance in New London that it's tougher, more competitive, more selective in its admissions process than USNA. Now ... or back in "the day" you claim. I fear you've been living under a delusion all these admissions seasons.

Until USNA decides to release the number of completed applications considered for appointment, their data is useless, unless it is used for parental ego boosting or alumni self gratification.

USCGA's data speaks for itself:

  • 4,345 on-line applications received (a meaningless number, just as USNA's 19k+ number).
  • 2,344 completed applications received (the number that matters).
  • 373 appointments awarded - 15.9%

If we use USNA Class of 2012 data (last class data officially released by USNA), they stated 10,960 "applicants" and 1,537 appointments. So even if we use the inflated number of "applicants" (and we know that every one of them were not completed) we would come to an appointment percentage of 14.0% (very close, despite WP's assertions of a "very distant 2nd" lol).

My guess is that 70% (a very generous guess, btw) of those 10k+ applications (7,672) were completed and submitted, yielding a probable appointment percentage of somewhere around 20%.

LineInTheSand said:
If you get into CGA, you'll probably get into USNA...may not work the other way around.

I would concur. I have seen more applicants (with applications to both schools) get USNA appointments but no USCGA appointment that vice-versa.

But to be fair to USNA, those who do get both - about 70% accept the USNA appointment.
 
But to be fair to USNA, those who do get both - about 70% accept the USNA appointment.

I was certainly leaning that that direction for a time. USNA seemed to court more. I received a number of calls from them, much more contact. CGA went silent for months. I even have on a USNA sweatshirt in a random yearbook picture from my senior year of high school.

It wasn't until I heard back from all of the academies (USCGA, USMMA and USNA) that I made my decision, and I only made that decision after I stayed at the schools. It was a good decision in the end, but the admissions process at CGA did not make it an easy one.

My Blue and Gold officer visited my high school. Two USNA midshipmen were manning a desk, speaking to students. THe BGO asked the two "which academy is the hardest, military-wise"....both, without hesitation, said CGA....this while I was leaning USNA.
 
In terms of "hardest?"

That's so simple it hardly merits exposition.

Like the computer, the output and the speed at which it is processed is fully dependent upon the raw material input.

Of course it would be "harder" at USCGA. No brainer. And remember, this is with a literal 1:1 student-faculty tutor ratio. Hold my hand, please.

btw, it's reasonable to grasp that a significant number of those 2300 coastie candidates completing apps would never have garnered a nomination, were that required. But of course it is not. And that is why a great many of those coasties both apply, are accepted, and enroll. Half the process.
 
I'll paraphrase my History Instructor from last year, who participated in the USN exchange program when he was a LTJG.

"Naval Officer's are given bonuses to stay in because their jobs suck. We stay in because we actually like our jobs"

A lot of the USNA exchange mids have a desire to cross commission into the Coast Guard.
 
Oh, no doubt. And for good reasons!:shake::rolleyes:

"Shipping out" for a coastie's sailing down the Ohio River in a bark Iggle! :eek:

"See you tonight, dear. Can you make lasagna for dinner?" :wink:

btw, anyone noting the forum these coastie-wannabes are drooling over? Day-dreaming, no doubt ...:thumb:
 
Oh, no doubt. And for good reasons!:shake::rolleyes:

"Shipping out" for a coastie's sailing down the Ohio River in a bark Iggle! :eek:

"See you tonight, dear. Can you make lasagna for dinner?" :wink:

btw, anyone noting the forum these coastie-wannabes are drooling over? Day-dreaming, no doubt ...:thumb:

Or if they're near a Navy base....making sailor's kids look good.

In all honesty, I'd love hanging out in port for months and months...and then working on a floating city where "heavy seas" are bumps in the road.

Old "salty" Navy master chief's coughing up their lasagna as they hop on a Coast Guard cutter.

Don't worry though Whistle, not everyone can get into the Coast Guard Academy...and for those people we have the Naval Academy.
 
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Oh, no doubt. And for good reasons!:shake::rolleyes:

"Shipping out" for a coastie's sailing down the Ohio River in a bark Iggle! :eek:

"See you tonight, dear. Can you make lasagna for dinner?" :wink:

btw, anyone noting the forum these coastie-wannabes are drooling over? Day-dreaming, no doubt ...:thumb:

We interact a LOT more on an international level with other nation's navies, you can't deny that. Other world's navies are more similar in both size and that their missions often include maritime law enforcement, something that the Navy can't do.

378's are often attached to a Navy fleet. For instance, my summer cutter did a FORCECOM patrol a couple years ago and were involved with the Georgia-Russian incident.

On an academy level I think we get more maritime professional development as cadets. For instance, this summer I was underway for 11 weeks: 5 on a 378 and 6 on Eagle. My Naval Academy counterparts only did 3 weeks of YP's, if I'm not mistaken. And I'll have at least 5-11 more weeks of cutter experience 1/c summer.
 
Not to mention that the Navy is trying to advertise itself like it does the Coast Guard's missions. "A Global Force for Good"? :wink:
 
WP not worthy of you. Maybe you should read up on the "lucky" Coasties running LCI's etc back and forth to the sunny beaches of the Pacific during the Festivities in the '40's.
 
And remember, this is with a literal 1:1 student-faculty tutor ratio.

Misinformation (fasle) should not be posted, the student-faculty ration is 9:1.

btw, it's reasonable to grasp that a significant number of those 2300 coastie candidates completing apps would never have garnered a nomination, were that required.

A significant number? Wow, you really are misinformed.

Talk to an Admissions officer or even an Admissions Partner and ask them how many would fit your fantasy scenario. I can tell it it wouldn't be anywhere near "significant."

Matter of fact, I haven't seen a candidate (in a very competitive district) yet that applied to both that was unable to garner a USNA nomination. You assume facts that just aren't true. However, I have had many candidates who apply to both, get their USNA appointment, and never see anything but a TWE from USCGA.

But of course it is not.

Which makes it a national competition based on merit, not a "who is best in your little Congressional district." Why would you mistakenly think that a competition in a district or state is somehow more rigorous that a nationwide competition? If you are the #1 rated candidate, in any state in the country, your appointment is guaranteed at USNA. You are #1 on your Congressman's slate, you are #1 on your Senator's slate = guaranteed appointment. At USCGA? Quite possible you don't get one, as there may be 375 candidates throughout the country that rank higher than you do. Yes, you're #1 in your state, but that's who you are competing against - only those from your state of district.

And that is why a great many of those coasties both apply, are accepted, and enroll. Half the process.

A great many? The data shows 15.9%.

Again, the discussion is meaningless until USNA releases their real numbers, not their meaningless "mutual self gratification-alumni-ego boosting" inflated stats.
 
Oh, no doubt. And for good reasons!:shake::rolleyes:

"Shipping out" for a coastie's sailing down the Ohio River in a bark Iggle! :eek:

"See you tonight, dear. Can you make lasagna for dinner?" :wink:

btw, anyone noting the forum these coastie-wannabes are drooling over? Day-dreaming, no doubt ...:thumb:

Sorry to hear about the close family member who was rejected by CGA, I'm sure she'll do well wherever she ended up. :wink:
 
Ultimately, it is all a false argument anyway as comparing USCG and USN to each other, absent anecdotal anonmalies, is like comparing the jobs of NYC policemen to that of a Marine or Navy nuke officer. There is little or none. One is in the business of defense, the other in the business of local security. Simply because both might involve boats/ships and aircraft can be camouflaging. I'm from Missouri, show me.
Hey Missouri,
Tell that to the family of USCG Lt. Ritticher who was assigned to the 37th Aerospace Rescue and Recovery Squadron at Da Nang Air Base. Prior to his being killed in action attempting to save the life of a fellow serviceman, he was awarded two AF Distinguished Flying Crosses for heroic rescues.

WP, read this excerpt from a offical report detailing his last mission & tell us if USCG Lt. Ritticher was shipping out for a trip down the Ohio River in a Bark Iggle!:


"On 9 June 1968, a Marine Corps A-4 Skyhawk went down 37 miles west of Hue in the A Shau Valley near a North Vietnamese Army staging area. The pilot, First Lieutenant Walter R. Schmidt, Jr., USMC, ejected safely but injured his leg and consequently, once on the ground, was unable to move. He established radio contact with control aircraft in the area and a rescue attempt was quickly coordinated. Rittichier, flying as the aircraft commander of an HH-3E (Serial Number 67-14710), call sign "Jolly Green 23" and another HH-3E, "Jolly Green 22" were scrambled from Da Nang.
Since Schmidt was injured the helicopter crews would need to deploy their pararescue jumper [known as a "PJ"] to rescue him -- a dangerous procedure under any conditions as the helicopter would need to remain in a hover while the PJ deployed -- making a large, stationary target for enemy fire. Adding to the danger was the possibility that enemy forces had captured Schmidt and were using him as bait to bring in the Jolly Green Giants as close to their guns as possible. These rescue missions into hostile territory were some of the most dangerous flights undertaken during the war and it took a special breed of serviceman to volunteer for this type of duty.
Helicopter gunships first fired their ordnance around the area where Schmidt lay to suppress enemy fire. Then Jolly Green 22 made the first attempts to rescue the injured pilot but heavy enemy fire repeatedly drove them off. After trying three times and running low on fuel, Jolly Green 22 flew off to refuel. The gunships and fighter-bombers then once again pummeled the surrounding area with ordnance but the enemy appeared to be well dug in and therefore resistant to suppression. The control officer, orbiting the area while he orchestrated the rescue and ground suppression missions, asked if Jolly Green 23 would make a rescue attempt. Rittichier, as the command pilot in Jolly Green 23, answered in the affirmative.
After heavy enemy fire forced him to pull away during his first attempt to hover over the injured Marine pilot, he came around after the area had been swept by attack aircraft yet again. As he hovered over Schmidt and his PJ began to deploy, enemy bullets riddled the HH-3E Jolly Green Giant just above and aft of the cockpit, causing a fire. Rittichier pulled up and attempted to fly to a nearby clearing to put his helicopter down. As he cleared a line of trees, witnesses saw his rotor slow and the Jolly Green Giant lost altitude. It exploded as it impacted the ground. An official report of the crash noted: "that at an altitude of approximately 50' JG 23's rotor very noticably slowed down and it looked like he was attempting to set the helicopter down on a small knoll. Upon crashing the entire aircraft burst into a fire ball and within 30 seconds the entire structure was nothing but smoking ashes. The aircraft had melted out of sight."
There had been no chance to escape the inferno--all four men on board perished almost instantly. Lieutenant Rittichier and his Air Force crew had given their lives attempting to save the life of a fellow serviceman."

jcRittichier-uscg-photo-01.jpg



WP- You have to ask yourself, what did I do?
 
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Thanks everyone for the great information. JCLEPPE was correct. I confused command of a vessel with the rank of Captain. While I still consider USNA as my first choice, I will keep an open mind about USCGA.

Thanks again!

Mary :wave:
 
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