USNA professor publishes article railing against SAs

Discussion in 'Academy/Military News' started by usafa2022, Oct 16, 2017.

  1. usafa2022

    usafa2022 Member

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  2. Nemo567

    Nemo567 Member

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    I guess it is that time of the year.
     
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  3. FMHS-79

    FMHS-79 Parent

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    Do a google search "Bruce Fleming USNA" - he has been an outspoken critic of the USNA for years.
     
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  4. cb7893

    cb7893 5-Year Member

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    Kind of surprising to see this article in The Federalist.

    Given their politics, it tells me the editorial board thinks of the SA's as a boondoggle.
     
  5. Maplerock

    Maplerock Proud to be an American 5-Year Member

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    Everyone's entitled to an opinion, and he has some strong ones.

    When people say "all," or "most," it is usually their opinion. He sounds frustrated, and this particular letter shows what I believe to be his true colors.

    He sounds like the protesters of the 70's, and if I had a bet, it would be that he was a strong Bernie Sanders supporter in the last election. That's his right, and my opinion.
     
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  6. BlahuKahuna

    BlahuKahuna 5-Year Member

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    Just to be clear-what year did you graduate and from what academy?
     
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  7. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Super Moderator 5-Year Member

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    I opened it, saw Professor Fleming’s name, read two paragraphs and closed it. Same recycled stuff. We can just pull up old threads and cover it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
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  8. DesertCaliMom

    DesertCaliMom Member

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    I took it more as a petulant child hearing someone confirm a viewpoint and saying "see, see, i told ya so!"
     
  9. time2

    time2 10-Year Member

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    Fleming doesn't really want to help anything improve, but likes the attention he gets from the media with these periodic articles. He resurfaces every so often gaining another 15 minutes of fame. All of his articles tend to have the same themes.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
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  10. Old Navy BGO

    Old Navy BGO 5-Year Member

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    Like the USMA professor's recent rant, there probably is some factual basis , some hyperbole, and a more than a few erroneous conclusions and over generalizations. Professor Fleming's been spouting off for years, and few take him serious. I don't know him ..I think he joined the faculty after I graduated, but my opinion is that he lacks the big picture of what USNA (and other service academies ) is about. He's a civilian professor in a military environment , and does not truly understand the military. He hears *****ing and moaning from the Midshipman and believes everything that he hears. I also think that he does not have a clue what really goes on behind the closed doors of Bancroft Hall, which I often describe as a leadership laboratory..young Midshipmen see the good , the bad, and the ugly in leadership styles, and come out with their own style of leadership. You don't get that getting together 2 days a week at NROTC or 12 weeks (or however long OCS is these days). I don't think that USNA grads are necessarily any better than other Commissioning sources in the long run, but do think they have a head start when they hit the fleet
     
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  11. Maplerock

    Maplerock Proud to be an American 5-Year Member

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    Glad you liked that jcleppe! BK, you seem to still be chapped about my forum comments. No harm is ever intended. I lā maikaʻi nou!
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
  12. BlahuKahuna

    BlahuKahuna 5-Year Member

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    Just asking for context.
     
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  13. America Works

    America Works Member

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    Honestly, I read the article from the standpoint of an AD enlisted member. In the military, you deal with BS everywhere. If you can graduate from an SA, then you can probably make it on active duty. However, I do think there are some fundamental issues that need to be addressed. For example, the poor academic standard highlighted by the author. First and foremost, service academies are institutions of higher learning, so education should be their primary concern. On the other hand, the mission of an SA is to commission officers in their respective service. In some ways, these two identities may clash. For example, recruiting the ideal candidate who meets all academic, physical, and medical requirements is difficult. A regular university only prioritizes academic achievements, so their chance of recruiting their ideal candidate is significantly higher. In other words, a service academy's approach to academics is different than a civilian university. However, ceteris paribus, should SAs have a lower academic standard than an Ivy league school (assuming the article is correct in that finding)?
     
  14. raimius

    raimius 10-Year Member

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    Mr. Flemming does one of these every year or so. He has a few valid points, which he then over extends to make his rant/argument against the existence of USNA (and more recently all the SAs).
     
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  15. Old Navy BGO

    Old Navy BGO 5-Year Member

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    You have a number of good points, but keep in mind that Professor Fleming's comments are somewhat exaggerated. I don't think for a moment that the academic program are not a primary concern. In fact, USNA academic programs are routinely ranked as among the best in the country. Some of the comments about Admissions are true -- SAT/ACT and Grades aren't the only criteria used to evaluate and admit students. USNA (and other service academies) are looking for the future leaders, so other factors come into play. Navy and other service academies use a whole person concept; I suspect other Ivy's do something similar, but the the difference is how certain activities are weighted.
     
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