USNA v NROTC

severn said:
Concur. He needs to navigate on his own. DS ('26) made a D- on History last semester while making As on Calculus, Chemistry, and Literature. It's not that he's not smart enough, he just doesn't see eye to eye with this professor. His voice too sounded cold and determined when talking about this fellow. I backed off... letting him grow his baby leadership claws and fangs.
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severn said:
... so this is a contrarian view against a USNA English Literature professor. Just like anywhere else in groups/organizations, there's always that one: toxic, lord of chaos, hostile, dominant, authoritarian, immoral, unethical, and borderline conduct unbecoming. During Plebe year, DS started with 3.21 GPA, then it decreased to 2.7 GPA. I asked him about the drop. Before he could answer, I noticed that determined Mid stare and his voice was cold and resolute. Got it. I backed off. This professor gave DS a "D-" while he was making "As" in Calculus and Physics. He did not see eye to eye with this individual. A similar post from a class of 2025 mentioned this professor. I think this professor was fired eventually. Moving forward, lesson learned for DS is he has to adjust about how to deal effectively with different leadership styles however TOXIC and borderline conduct unbecoming.
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So was it English, or History? Or both?
 
Old Navy BGO said:
This lesson applies to all walks of life.... you will run across those in positions of authority that you don't agree with, and you learn to deal with it, hopefully in a positive matter so you get to that point where you are in the position of authority and don't make the same mistakes.

I presume you are referring to Professor Fleming...well known on SAF and a very public critic of USNA. Not sure where he is now..last I saw he had been dismissed, won an appeal and reinstated in a non teaching role, and waiting for results of USNA appeal. Some love him, some hate him,,,,, I don't know enough to take sides, but do believe there is a place for a contrarian in the military education system as long as the message is taught correctly,
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... so I did not mention a name however a parent from Class of 2025 mentioned this "fired" professor. DS before Plebe Summer never used a profanity; I heard the first one during IDay. As a parent, I trust the USNA process of developing his baby leadership fangs and claws.
 
severn said:
... so I did not mention a name however a parent from Class of 2025 mentioned this "fired" professor. DS before Plebe Summer never used a profanity; I heard the first one during IDay. As a parent, I trust the USNA process of developing his baby leadership fangs and claws.
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lol same with my son. He came back from USNA talking like a drunken sailor.
 
A1Janitor said:
lol same with my son. He came back from USNA talking like a drunken sailor.
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... yeah... I witnessed this behavior during Plebe Weekend. It's the art of wrapping their claws in white gloves. The detailers and Plebes smiled profusely and you would 💬 think your in a Church. One detailer, said something to DS and he snapped at attention.
 
severn said:
... so this is a contrarian view against a USNA English Literature professor. Just like anywhere else in groups/organizations, there's always that one: toxic, lord of chaos, hostile, dominant, authoritarian, immoral, unethical, and borderline conduct unbecoming. During Plebe year, DS started with 3.21 GPA, then it decreased to 2.7 GPA. I asked him about the drop. Before he could answer, I noticed that determined Mid stare and his voice was cold and resolute. Got it. I backed off. This professor gave DS a "D-" while he was making "As" in Calculus and Physics. He did not see eye to eye with this individual. A similar post from a class of 2025 mentioned this professor. I think this professor was fired eventually. Moving forward, lesson learned for DS is he has to adjust about how to deal effectively with different leadership styles however TOXIC and borderline conduct unbecoming.
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In the civilian worlds this translates to that you don’t always pick your boss.
 
We had tons of opportunities for tutoring and extra academic support at my university. TAs hosted study halls for their sections, TAs and professors both had lots of office hours where they would help students out (or just chat with them about other things of mutual interest too). Professors and TAs were both passionate about teaching and helping out students. Upperclassmen were paid to host tutoring sessions for large intro courses. There were multiple centers centered around helping students at a specific skill, such as writing, coding, or foreign languages, staffed by experts and other students passionate about that particular subject. You could also even get paid to type up notes in your classes for other students to use. The opportunities for sure exist at civilian universities, and it is up to the individual students to take advantage of them! I would guess USNA has similar opportunities too.

And yup, I can confirm that NROTC requires extra tutoring hours in some courses like calculus and physics, we had to get a log signed off every week by our TA or someone similar to confirm we attended extra study sessions for those classes.
 
With my kid's NROTC unit, during his Fall semester, the unit mids generally had some pretty crappy grades. Whole unit had mandatory tutoring/study time at the NROTC building a few times a week. After a few sessions, kids with better than a 3.0 were given more flexibility, but some still used that time to do their work, or help their shipmates.
 
Lots of colleges have an incredible amount of academic support. At most colleges you will have tutors, a writing center, extra instruction with instructors, and more. What makes Navy better for me is that there are less students which makes gaining access to academic support easier. Each instructor has less students, so I can get tutoring directly with my instructor rather than with a TA. Many days I can just walk into the writing center without an appointment.
 
Thank you all for your very thoughtful feedback. This thread is very helpful should our DC be in the enviable position to have to choose between USNA and NROTC. Thanks again, Go Navy!
 
Hi. It’s a difficult decision trying to decide between the USNA and a Notre Dame NROTC scholarship. I know the differences between the college experience etc. Do graduates of the USNA regret not having the college experience? Do you feel you made life long friends and connections in the USNA? Did going to USNA really suck and was it miserable to the point you regretted attending?
 
My son loved USNA, and recently told me he is glad he chose it.

He has made many lifelong friends.

It didn’t suck for him. There are tough days - laugh mistakes off, don’t dwell on them. Understand why they are doing what they are doing, and strive to improve and help your peers.
 
av8torx said:
Hi. It’s a difficult decision trying to decide between the USNA and a Notre Dame NROTC scholarship. I know the differences between the college experience etc. Do graduates of the USNA regret not having the college experience? Do you feel you made life long friends and connections in the USNA? Did going to USNA really suck and was it miserable to the point you regretted attending?
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My DS went through this decision last year. His three older siblings attended ND (one started NROTC there and ended up a 2nd Lt. in the Army). The two institutions provide vastly different experiences. My 2027 DS is very happy at USNA, particularly with the support for his Catholic faith. Bancroft is the only dorm at a public institution with the Blessed Sacrament.
 
I would also add that NROTC at ND is extremely academically rigorous because you take "weed out" math and sciences courses. I think the academic supports are better at USNA.
 
Having gone to college and then USNA, I can say USNA is more rewarding for me. Missing out on the “college experience” is worth it for me to have the opportunities I have had at USNA. The bonds I have with my classmates will last a lifetime and I love the people I have met and bonded with at Annapolis. There are crappy parts of the academy, but the best parts of the academy make up for it. I would not trade this experience for anything.
 
Thank you for your response. My son received a letter of assurance to the USNA as well as an ROTC scholarship to Notre Dame. As a parent you want the best for your children. My son thrives on structure and hard work so I think the USNA is a good fit. I just feel sad he will miss out on the college experience. What are your views on the airforce academy and coast guard academy should he receive those opportunities. I know these are crazy questions but just looking for any feedback. Thanks D
 
One's definition of the "college experience" is completely dependent on where they are. A midshipman's college experience is being independent from family, having a structured lifestyle, experiencing the joys of liberty and leave (which are WAY more appreciated then kids who look forward to a frat party and getting drunk on the weekend), traveling all over the world ..... for "free" ..... and gaining lifelong friends that may not actually happen in "normal" college, etc. etc.
 
Wow! Well said. I’m so proud of my son. I think he would thrive at an academy. He attended four summer seminars and loved it. We visited the USNA when he was 12. He literally shook with excitement. He was driven to improve himself to hopefully attend the USNA. As the 1981 commercial said. Navy. It’s not just a job it’s an adventure!!
 
av8torx said:
Thank you for your response. My son received a letter of assurance to the USNA as well as an ROTC scholarship to Notre Dame. As a parent you want the best for your children. My son thrives on structure and hard work so I think the USNA is a good fit. I just feel sad he will miss out on the college experience. What are your views on the airforce academy and coast guard academy should he receive those opportunities. I know these are crazy questions but just looking for any feedback. Thanks D
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Congrats on both. Adding in on @IronmanDaremo thoughts as well

In his 2+ years so far at THE USNA my DS has: spent a month in Japan (with another trip planned during Spring Break 2024), sailed along the East Coast with port time in Boston and NYC, traveled the US on tour with Glee Club, been published, spent long weekend in DUBLIN for the Navy-ND game, met and heard many prestigious leaders in government and society, climbed Herndon, etc...

When I have asked DS about missing "normal college", his response is simply---none of my HS classmates have spent the night in a sub, flown backseat in a plane, helmed a YP, been to Japan and Ireland, gotten wet and sandy. He is also quick to point out he has a guaranteed job for minimum 5 years post graduation. His peers in civilian schools will be sweating out the next two years on where the economy will be in 2025-2026.
 
av8torx said:
Do graduates of the USNA regret not having the college experience? Do you feel you made life long friends and connections in the USNA? Did going to USNA really suck and was it miserable to the point you regretted attending?
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No; Definitely; Sometimes and hell no. Seriously, I think many will say its better to to be from USNA than at USNA, and I will certainly say that USNA is a lot better in hindsight than at times when I was there, but the common experience and bond with Classmates is immeasurable. Sure , there were times when it sucked..but those are long forgotten almost 40 years later.
 
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