Weight when entering academy.

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zbsigpi

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My son is a football player and weight lifter. Currently he is above weight standards. Is there any leeway for admittance for football players? I know at graduation he needs to meet the standards.
 
He has to meet the height and weight requirements at R Day, either by the chart or by tape. After that athletes are allowed to have a higher BMI, I can't remember the exact level but a coach can offer advice on that. He will then need to meet requirements again for graduation.
 
F15DOC said:
Weight can be a tricky issue, but it can be overcome. I haven't been on the forums since we left for R-Day with my DS.
Time to start giving back some advice and support as I was given. I posted many questions on here regarding my sons weight and fitness scores. It was a close one, but he dodged a few bullets early on. Following is my story, hope it helps some of you.

My son played football as a lineman in high school. He was heavy because of it, well that and because he liked to eat and hated to run. At 5'11, 221#, he did not meet standards for Height / Weight. His doc taped him, not sure if it was done right as there is some variability if the tape isn't placed exactly in the right locations. Either way, he did just make the BMI standards to get in as a swab. He was one of the hard working and lucky kids to be offered a spot in the class of 2020, after about 3 weeks of agonizing torture to his parents, he signed his acceptance.
Although I constantly warned him and tried to convince him of the need to drop weight and get fit, it seems he just didn't care.

On R-Day he was still about the same weight. We said goodbye in the morning as he was whisked away with his new company. His mother and I attended parent events that morning while anticipating a chance to see him swear his oath later that afternoon. At lunch I mentioned under my breath to his mother that I hope he makes weight as there are cases every year where swabs are sent home on RDay.... she didn't know this and was upset that I mentioned it!! No more than 15 minutes after stating that, my cell phone rings.... call from New London, CT! My heart jumped as I answered it. "Hello, Mr. Ludwig? Your son is fine, but there is a problem and we need to speak with you".
Ugh, my heart sank, I knew what it was about.
An hour later we were in the counselors office when our son was escorted in, looking worse than I have ever seen him look, head shaved, sour face, looking beaten down.... it had only been a few hours, how could he crumple that fast?
We were advised that he did not meet height / weight standards and might not be allowed to join his swab class and could be sent home. From the look on his face, that would have been just fine with him, he clearly hated it so far. She informed us that He was going to be taped later that day to see if he can stay. We said a curt goodbye "love you son" and he was escorted back out to rejoin his company. At first I wondered why do all that before taping him, then I realized they were scaring him to let him know just how serious they take this, so if he does pass the taping he would understand he was on the bubble.
So his mother and I suffered 2 hours of anguish waiting to hear...
Finally, my phone rang again, New London, CT.... "Hello, Mr. Ludwig? Your son made weight and will be allowed to stay".
What a huge relief with high 5s to a few other parents we shared our fears with....
Damn that Boy!!! Heart attack Kid!

When we saw him later that afternoon he looked even worse and there was no doubt he was ready to quit, that's another story I will save for later.
So he barely made BMI. His first fit test he only scored 137 points! If he was under 135 points, they send you home!! For such a high achieving young man, we were sad, mad, disappointed, and hopeful.... but he really screwed up by not being ready, he knows it now, but I don't think there was anything we could have done to change it. I am sure that is a big part of his unhappiness the first month of swab summer. He was singled out and they focused on him, making him get fit, the cadre were phenomenal and he loves them all now, they rode him hard! But there isn't much you can do as a parent, it is up to your child to take ownership of their fitness.
By the end of 4 weeks he was up to 168 points on the fit test. Then 197 points, and within 2 weeks of classes starting, he had dropped over 30 pounds, scored 220 points on the fit test and was feeling the greatest sense of accomplishment of his life.
His laziness almost cost him his spot in his class, and he absolutely loves the academy experience now.
The ride for his parents was horrible!!! 4 weeks of gut wrenching, more to that story some other time.
The end result is a happy, well adjusted, fit and confident young man.... hang in there!!
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Because CGA is D3, they tend to be more strict in regards to general requirements for athletes. I would guess if was a "recruited" athlete, his coach would have some pull and leeway, but if he is overweight, he needs to work on it before R-Day as no matter the BMI waiver for athletes, he will still have to be able to complete Swab Summer and pass the PFT portion. If he hates to run, get started now, rather than have problems and risk disenrollment for physical issues early on. JMHO..:)
 
Our DD reported with the class of 2023 on July 1st. Approximately 1pm that day we get a phone call to report to Leamy Hall to discuss weight/BMI issue! We are on the opposite side of the campus and sprint to Leamy passing everything that’s not moving faster than 25 mph. We call the coaches to let them know what is going on and someone will join us with the medical staff. They informed us DD did not make weight and was 3% over on taping. They said our DD was stoic and matter of fact. She knew she would not make weight but was slightly surprised about missing tape. She asked them what’s next and was told she would need to be granted a waive from the superintendent. Her reply was “ please tell him that I apologize for reporting out of standards but I will be in compliance before the end of swab summer , as it has always been my goal to graduate from USCGA. If there is nothing else may I please have permission to rejoin my company.” Granted.
The staff told us in all their years they can not recall a swab who was so composed and determined in her commitment to becoming a USCGA Graduate. But they said, she will need to be granted a wavier from the new super and we won’t have any more information until about an hour before the march on. 45 minutes before march on we get the call that the wavier was granted and DD must meet standards before the end of swab summer. First week of August we get a text from the coach DD has made tape and is down almost 20 pounds from R day. :wiggle: PFE score 220 and now a lean mean fighting machine. :tank1: DD just told us that she can now make it to the top of the single rope climb.

zbsigpi said:
My son is a football player and weight lifter. Currently he is above weight standards. Is there any leeway for admittance for football players? I know at graduation he needs to meet the standards.
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sanman said:
He has to meet the height and weight requirements at R Day, either by the chart or by tape. After that athletes are allowed to have a higher BMI, I can't remember the exact level but a coach can offer advice on that. He will then need to meet requirements again for graduation.
Click to expand...
Impulsive said:
Because CGA is D3, they tend to be more strict in regards to general requirements for athletes. I would guess if was a "recruited" athlete, his coach would have some pull and leeway, but if he is overweight, he needs to work on it before R-Day as no matter the BMI waiver for athletes, he will still have to be able to complete Swab Summer and pass the PFT portion. If he hates to run, get started now, rather than have problems and risk disenrollment for physical issues early on. JMHO..:)
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So what we have experienced and learned from this is that a temporary wavier may be granted for beginning out of compliance. Cadets are measured twice a year and need to meet standards at that time. Failure to do so would most likely lead to some type of wavier and probation and be required to do extra training. Disenrollment is unlikely unless cadet fails to make progress towards meeting the standards. Coaches are very helpful, but have no influence in the decision as to who gets a wavier. The USCG is currently preforming a pilot program that looks at changing their tape requirements as current standards tend to put a higher percentage of females being out of compliance than to the males.

https://www.military.com/daily-news...-standards-measurement-new-pilot-program.html

https://www.dcms.uscg.mil/military/Body-Composition-Program/
 
I believe the PFE standards in the fleet are different to those at the academy and it is not clear if any changes are proposed for the academy.
 
This was a few years ago. However, I personally knew a cadet dis-enrolled for weight Thanksgiving of his 1/C year. He was told to reapply for the following year if he made weight. He did, but was still not re-admitted anyway.
 
AuxNoob said:
This was a few years ago. However, I personally knew a cadet dis-enrolled for weight Thanksgiving of his 1/C year. He was told to reapply for the following year if he made weight. He did, but was still not re-admitted anyway.
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Do you know if that was his first and only time he did not make weight in his time at the Academy? Also curious if there were any other academic or disciplinary issues he may have had?
 
Ever since instituting the "weight standards" back in like 1987, the CG as a whole has been pretty unforgiving as to those standards. Early on, anyone not meeting or being close to not meeting the standards were given six months to come into compliance, and until the did they were not promotable or transferrable. I know members separated back in the late 80's for not coming into compliance within the six months, and they were separated under an General Discharge as "unsuitable for service". It was difficult for those who experienced this process. I cannot speak for how it works today as I have been out for a while, but they were pretty strict even with the junior enlisted. I remember a E-8 BM (will not mention his name) that was denied command because of a weight issue. He retired shortly thereafter.

Bottom line, is CG weight Standards are NOT something to take lightly. They WILL discharge you (enlisted) or Disenroll or seperate you (Officer) if you cannot perform and meet standards. I think it is pretty much becoming the norm across ALL services. The Army just started a new "CPFT" (Combat Personal Fitness Test) that takes two days to complete because so many soldiers were either getting hurt or were unable to perform their missions that the Army chief of Readiness I believe decided changes needed to be made. They are supposedly being phased in over the next two years and ALL members will have to pass, including Academy Cadets.

If you or your child is applying to an Academy, get in shape and pass the PFT's with high scores before reporting. No one wants to go into the service with a handicap right off the bat, better to work at your own pace before than be put in a "special" unit to get into shape before attending classes.
 
USNA2014PP said:
temporary wavier may be granted
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Impulsive said:
They WILL discharge you (enlisted) or Disenroll or seperate you (Officer) if you cannot perform and meet standards.
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Impulsive said:
No one wants to go into the service with a handicap right off the bat
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There were some that were sent home on R-Day when my DS reported in. They weren't issued a temporary waiver. Getting into the academy is a challenge, but staying in the academy is also a challenge.
 
zbsigpi said:
My son is a football player and weight lifter. Currently he is above weight standards. Is there any leeway for admittance for football players? I know at graduation he needs to meet the standards.
Click to expand...
Is he over the weight regs because of his size and muscle or is he carrying too much body fat? For the more heavily muscled, there is a measuring tape test CGA uses to approximate body fat. As long as you pass the tape test and your body fat is within regs you are fine. Best source of info would be the CGA football coach.
 
Korab said:
zbsigpi said:
My son is a football player and weight lifter. Currently he is above weight standards. Is there any leeway for admittance for football players? I know at graduation he needs to meet the standards.
Click to expand...
Is he over the weight regs because of his size and muscle or is he carrying too much body fat? For the more heavily muscled, there is a measuring tape test CGA uses to approximate body fat. As long as you pass the tape test and your body fat is within regs you are fine. Best source of info would be the CGA football coach.
Click to expand...

I am going to say both. He is a athletically fit person due to football (full back and ILB) and weightlifting (state champion in weight class, have to toot that horn a little), but is carrying a little in the mid section. Alot of people on here have mentioned a tape test I will research it but what is it?
 
zbsigpi said:
Alot of people on here have mentioned a tape test I will research it but what is it?
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It is a method of calculating body fat based upon an equation of body measurements using a tape measure. The measurements are very exact and must be done carefully. No margin for error.
 
zbsigpi said:
Korab said:
zbsigpi said:
My son is a football player and weight lifter. Currently he is above weight standards. Is there any leeway for admittance for football players? I know at graduation he needs to meet the standards.
Click to expand...
Is he over the weight regs because of his size and muscle or is he carrying too much body fat? For the more heavily muscled, there is a measuring tape test CGA uses to approximate body fat. As long as you pass the tape test and your body fat is within regs you are fine. Best source of info would be the CGA football coach.
Click to expand...

I am going to say both. He is a athletically fit person due to football (full back and ILB) and weightlifting (state champion in weight class, have to toot that horn a little), but is carrying a little in the mid section. Alot of people on here have mentioned a tape test I will research it but what is it?
Click to expand...
No first hand experience with it - specifics are probably posted somewhere. They measure waist, neck and who knows what else and plug the measurements into a formula to yield a body fat percentage. Better get him running and eating right. CGA doesn't mess around with this. They have to complete the PFE and weigh in at the beginning of every semester. I'm not aware of football players getting waivers for this, but if he is recruited, talk to the football coach.
 
Weight standards are set in stone based on height/weight. If you don't make weight on Day 1, they do the body measurements as described above, which calculate body fat percentage. If you don't make those on Day 1, your coach (if an athlete) or the Superintendent MAY grant a waiver which would allow you to be re-measured at the end of swab summer. Football players (think linemen) don't get a waiver for height/weight either; they know they won't make standard height/weight measurements, so they get absolutely jacked instead (low % of body fat / high muscle mass).

Moral of the story, don't come to swab summer overweight. Period. It causes unecessary stress during the first day and the first few weeks of swab summer. Everyone loses between 5 and 20 pounds during swab summer, but there is no guarantee DS/DD will be granted a waiver on Day 1.
 
DualAcademyDad said:
Weight standards are set in stone based on height/weight. If you don't make weight on Day 1, they do the body measurements as described above, which calculate body fat percentage. If you don't make those on Day
Moral of the story, don't come to swab summer overweight. Period. It causes unecessary stress during the first day and the first few weeks of swab summer
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Let me start by agreeing that “standards are set in stone” and waivers and remedial actions are an unnecessary stress to an already stressful environment. Report ready and able!

My hypothetical question is........
Which cadet do you want on your team, the one who is slightly out of standards for weight and BMI and has an outstanding PFE score or the cadet who is well within weight standards and slightly out of standards for their PFE?

Two different ways of measuring “fitness “, one address strength and conditioning the other appearance.

As one who has always had a “large bone frame” and would never make weight and be above BMI standards but would have a high PFE score you can assume who I want on my team. Now if I were auditioning for “Dancing with the Stars”, that would be a different vote.;)
Who do you want on your team? :laugh: Just asking for sh...s and giggles. :rolleyes:
 
IMHO, in a perfect world, I would want the one who is in shape and within standards. Absence that (and I am a large boned person) I would want the person who strove for being the best shipmate they could be. I know (from personal experience) that maintaining fitness and standards become harder with age, and that if you start a career fighting those standards you have to work harder to just maintain standards. Shipmates that were marginal upon entry, found themselves fighting to maintain later on. My personal advice....start within standards, maintain your exercise level, and have a long and successful career...:)
 
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