What route to take?

[Apgallozzi]

Wow... confusing..
Anyways, it's my goal to become a US Navy SEAL. I know it will be extremely tough but since when has anything important been easy. I understand Capt. Bisset (ret SEAL) has an outstanding mentoring program at KP and I was wondering if anyone had any insight on the program. I also have found that for a month during your 2nd sea year it is possible to attend a mini-BUD/S. If anyone has any insight on what that would entail or knows someone who gained their trident through KP I would really appreciate any and all info. Thanks!

**Before someone tells me it's too hard and I won't make it, let me tell ya those comments don't affect me. If anything it is more fuel in the furnace so keep 'em comin'. Since I was in elementary/middle school I've had people tell me I was not good enough to attend an SA and today I'm part of USMMA '14 and am triple qualified for all of the academies. Anytime someone has told me I can't do something I've been able to prove them wrong.

 

[noworries]

Then you have probably been doing this guys workouts for sometime.

http://www.stewsmith.com/

 

[deepdraft1]

After flying, she will have the GREATEST job position that can be afforded to man or women....how about 6 months on, 6 months off and 6 digit salary??????...

And YES, deepdraft1, I DO KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.

Madame, after 34 years in the U.S. Merchant Marine I have seen exactly ONE former Naval Aviator sailing on a license. And that was 20 years ago when licenses were easier to maintain. I also know that as a captain I would be very apprehensive having an officer that had been away from the maritime industry for 9 years while off flying in the Navy. That’s the reality.

I recently had a 3rd mate on my ship that was coming back to sea after an extended time away from sailing. He was a disaster waiting to happen and we couldn't get rid of him fast enough. And here’s the kicker; he was a Kings Point graduate and had an UNLIMITED MASTERS LICENSE

this license will be a foot in the door of a great back up career to the military.

To be TRULY successful in the Merchant Marine you need to be ACTIVE in it. It is NOT some ‘back up’ career choice. Being a licensed Merchant Mariner means you are dedicated to sailing, doing continuing maritime education and raising your license, which includes adding endorsements, e.g. pilotage, etc.

Just having a license is one thing, being able to do the job well is entirely another. The license doesn’t confer ability or show real recency of experience. It is simply the minimum qualification for one to serve in that capacity.

I am sure that my DD will be as successful in Flight, as an Astronaut, and on the Sea as you presume to be.

Anything’s possible.. BUT the devil is ‘in the details’.

Oh, and my success at sea had nothing to do with presumption. I WORKED HARD FOR IT FOR A LONG TIME. Have a nice day..

 

[Apgallozzi]

To be TRULY successful in the Merchant Marine you need to be ACTIVE in it. It is NOT some ‘back up’ career choice. Being a licensed Merchant Mariner means you are dedicated to sailing, doing continuing maritime education and raising your license, which includes adding endorsements, e.g. pilotage, etc.

That makes a lot of sense and I've never really thought about it that way. I definitely want to take the Naval route and hopefully become a SEAL. Obviously I have zero experience and am not really qualified on what could or could not happen. All I know is that I intend to enter KP with 1 over goal, while also keeping an open mind. Thanks

 

[deepdraft1]

keeping an open mind

That’s a good thing. You have 4 years ahead of you (that’s 1444 days and a ‘wake-up’).. Believe me when I tell you that goals can change radically in that period of time. Who knows, you may get out to sea and REALLY like it and decide ‘this ain’t a bad way to make a living’ and to heck with being a Navy SEAL. Anyway, Good Luck.

 

[KPEngineer]

it's my goal to become a US Navy SEAL.

If your goal is to be a SEAL, why wait 4 years to compete for an EXTREMELY competitive slot. Enlist now and you can get NSW in your contract. You will be far more likely to get into BUD/S as an enlistee than as a KP graduate.

 

[Apgallozzi]

Let me correct that statement. It is my goal to be a US Navy SEAL Officer. I want to lead the best. Plus Kings Point has such amazing oppurtunities and offers such a great education I would be a Class A idiot to throw this away. Besides, if I go there with an open mind who knows what route I will want to take in 4 years. Plus why not strive to be the best? So what if it's very competitive, I have no doubt that if I work hard enough I can accomplish anything I set my mind too.

 

[Sea Faring Moose Mom]

Daughter's Reply

Sir's

You had a different plan for your lives. This does not mean you can judge mine. My future and the path that it takes is my own to decide.

"KP Graduate: Pilot on the first manned trip to Mars" Just think how surprised you will be when the read about me in a few years. You are definitely going to have to eat your words. There have been other KP graduates that have been Astronauts.....I can follow in their footsteps. What are they doing now??? One is still in the Astronaut program and one is Sailing.....

I am now working on a ship. I have served on a M/V last year and this year I have finished working on a MSC Oil Tanker. I will finish my Sea time on another M/V. I have recieved Oustanding evaluations from all that I have worked for. It will not be difficult for me to keep my navigation knowledge, especially in Space. My licensing will be up to date. Who can say that I don't end up as a Surface Warfare Officer and have all of the responsibilities of a Merchant Marine officer and more!

WAKE UP! It has never been a back up career choice...this is something that I know I CAN DO now and in the future. The time has passed that a person only does one job/career in their life time. My future will contain all of the opportunities that USMMA makes available to all students.

 

[kp2001]

Sir's

You had a different plan for your lives. This does not mean you can judge mine. My future and the path that it takes is my own to decide.

"KP Graduate: Pilot on the first manned trip to Mars" Just think how surprised you will be when the read about me in a few years. You are definitely going to have to eat your words. There have been other KP graduates that have been Astronauts.....I can follow in their footsteps. What are they doing now??? One is still in the Astronaut program and one is Sailing.....

I am now working on a ship. I have served on a M/V last year and this year I have finished working on a MSC Oil Tanker. I will finish my Sea time on another M/V. I have recieved Oustanding evaluations from all that I have worked for. It will not be difficult for me to keep my navigation knowledge, especially in Space. My licensing will be up to date. Who can say that I don't end up as a Surface Warfare Officer and have all of the responsibilities of a Merchant Marine officer and more!

WAKE UP! It has never been a back up career choice...this is something that I know I CAN DO now and in the future. The time has passed that a person only does one job/career in their life time. My future will contain all of the opportunities that USMMA makes available to all students.

Okay, let's bring a little reality into this:

*"There have been other KP graduates that have been Astronauts...one is still in the program and one is sailing..."

There have been exactly two graduates who went on to become astronauts. Elliot See (killed in Gemini training) and CAPT Mark Kelly. CAPT Kelly is still an astronaut. Nobody has or would go from being an astronaut to returning to sea.

*"Pilot on the first manned trip to Mars"

The current proposal has the first trip to Mars going by 2037. This would put your daughter at approximately 48 years of age based on her being a 2nd classman. Probably a little bit older than they will be looking for in their pilot. Second, go for this, I say keep the dream because it is a possibility. Here is your likely career path: Graduate, go to Navy flight school, compete well in flight school and select jets. Do well in advanced, report to fleet. Do well in fleet tour and earn orders to Test Pilot School. At this point it would be approximately 8-10 years after graduation(+/- 2020). Apply for NASA, select, train for +/- 5yrs prior to first flight.

*"Keep my navigation knowledge"

Unless you are sailing this knowledge is going to fade. I speak from experience. I sailed as a 3rd Mate for two years after graduation. Merely 3 years later when I went to renew my license I found that I had lost A LOT of information when I sat in front of that radar again trying to calculate CPA, etc. Now imagine doing that after 20+ years after last setting foot on a ship because that's what it would take if you became an astronaut. Heck in the last 20 years ECDIS wasn't even around, imagine what advances will come in the next 20.

*"My licensing will be up to date"

You may be able to keep a "renewal for continuity" but the ability to keep an active license will be severely hampered by the need to do STCW training. I ran into this myself as I had to go repeat Basic Safety Training in order to renew mine. The standards become more strict by the year.

*"Who says that I don't end up as a SWO..."

How are you ever going to become an astronaut if you go SWO? Last time a SWO was selected for NASA was....never. If you go SWO, sure it'd be much easier to maintain your navigation skills and possibly your license; however, I don't know many happy SWO's.


Okay, it's great to have dreams and goals, your daughter obviously has many; however, a little bit of reality needs to be injected. If she wants to shoot for becoming an astronaut then by all means do so. Take all the steps you need to get there, because you'll never know if you don't try. But don't try to tell me (or people who still work in the industry) that returning to the merchant marine after being an astronaut is a feasible option.

 

[deepdraft1]

^^KP2001 hits it 'out of the park'

My future and the path that it takes is my own to decide

Well if you go with Grey Stack Air Lines, Uncle Sam may have something to say about that. Make sure you keep us all posted when you do finally return from outer space

 

[whitege]

Deepdraft1
I sent you a pm with questions.

Thank you.

 

[sprog]

There have been exactly two graduates who went on to become astronauts. Elliot See (killed in Gemini training) and CAPT Mark Kelly. CAPT Kelly is still an astronaut. Nobody has or would go from being an astronaut to returning to sea.

I didn't know Elliot See was a USMMA grad. Learn something new everyday. Steve Zahn played him in "From the Earth to the Moon."

 

[sprog]

^^Make sure you keep us all posted when you do finally return from outer space

That was snarky, but very funny

 

[deepdraft1]

That was snarky, but very funny

'Ground Control to Major Sprog..' glad you got a laugh out of it.

 

[jasperdog]

Let me correct that statement. It is my goal to be a US Navy SEAL Officer. I want to lead the best. Plus Kings Point has such amazing oppurtunities and offers such a great education I would be a Class A idiot to throw this away. Besides, if I go there with an open mind who knows what route I will want to take in 4 years. Plus why not strive to be the best? So what if it's very competitive, I have no doubt that if I work hard enough I can accomplish anything I set my mind too.

"Who knows what route I will want to take in4 years?"

That is an great, honest forthright statement and it shows me you do have an open mind. Which is exactly what you need.

Good luck and welcome to the KP family.

 

[Sea Faring Moose Mom]

Thank You

Thank you jasperdog for your open mind...........

What great opportunities lie ahead for all the Women and Men who attend this fine school. This story will only play out in the furture.

The "snarky" was not appreciated.

You comments would have had more integrity and been more helpful if my daughter and myself had been addressed as you did Apgallozzi without the "snarky".

 

[Apgallozzi]

"Who knows what route I will want to take in4 years?"

That is an great, honest forthright statement and it shows me you do have an open mind. Which is exactly what you need.

Good luck and welcome to the KP family.

Thank you I really appreciate that. I'm very excited to start my KP career in 71 days 18h 38m 25s, (but who's counting). I'm obviously more inclined to take the military route but there are so many opportunities it's hard to chisel it in stone before I've even started Indoc, let alone graduated HS.

Last night I had the awards ceremony and standing up on that stage next to 2 of my fellow classmates who are going to KP with me, was a very proud moment, and afterward most of peers were pretty jealous of this opportunity. Can't wait!

 

[Sea Faring Moose Mom]

CONGRATULATIONS! Apgallozzi

These will be the most outstanding years of your life.....Dig Deep and you will be well rewarded!!!

 

[jasperdog]

Thank you jasperdog for your open mind...........

What great opportunities lie ahead for all the Women and Men who attend this fine school. This story will only play out in the future.

The "snarky" was not appreciated.

You comments would have had more integrity and been more helpful if my daughter and myself had been addressed as you did Apgallozzi without the "snarky".

Sea Fairing Moose Mom: I just went back looked through this thread. On this thread I have only one other post - it was two weeks ago and in response to service's original post. While from time to time I have been known to post something that could be called "snarky" I don't see that I've done so on this thread in any way. To be sure, people who read my posts here and over on USMMA Forum on College Confidential would certainly know my feelings about what the primary mission of the USMMA should be - preparing and providing leaders for the Maritime Industry. However to be clear I did not in any way participate in the comments back to you or the "witty" repartee between yourself and others here. I did not do so for several reasons: 1) I didn't have anything to add; 2) There seemed to be more then enough "snark" going back and forth between you all; 3) I felt that if you sorted through the "snark" your own as well as the uncharacteristic response to your vitriolic comments back from Luigi and KP2001 you'd see they were actually trying to provide you some good information, even if it was/is information you and your daughter might not want to hear.

You might be interested to know, though you probably already know this both Mark Kelly (USMMA 1986) and his twin brother who is 1986 SUNY-MC (aka Fort Schuyler) graduate went on to become astronauts. As far as I know neither plan to or would regard returning to a sea going career as logical progressions of the experience and training they have received as astronauts. I'm pretty sure neither have maintained their licenses due to the difficulties in doing so as enumerated in KP2001's post. On the other hand, I know both RADM Phil Greene (USMMA '78) and RADM Mark Buzby (USMMA '79) are both very proud that they have both maintained and upgraded their licenses throughout their Active Duty Navy Careers and both hold current Unlimited Master's tickets, thus the comments about SWOs.

I, like you, believe my own DS who is also at KP, is an amazing young person. In fact I think pretty much every one of our children in the current regiment are.

As a guy who spent four years there and was as much a cocky b--t--d as any one there before I graduated, I'd be the first to say that there's not much a Kings Pointer can't do when they set their minds to it. However, knowing how hard some things are and then taking a good look to determine whether or not something is worth doing, is part of the pragmatism that a four year education at USMMA also imparts to us. Finally, factor that in with the immortal words of Henry David Thoreau: "Do not worry if you have built your castles in the air. They are where they should be. Now put the foundations under them." In the end, no matter what the next 30+ years bring for your DD, I can tell you based on the accomplishments of others in my graduating class, she's right in understanding the adventure is just beginning. However, I really think that both Luigi and KP2001 were truly only trying to help and offer solid information when this all started. You may have opened yourself to this sort of stuff with your "beam me up" sort of stuff in your signature and they were probably just trying to keep things light before this whole discussion seemed to become a bit of a train wreck.

 

[Sea Faring Moose Mom]

Jasperdog

You never participated in the 'snarky' comments. This is why the first comment was addressed to you: "Thank you for your open mind".....Meaning that you were much more helpful in your replies to my daughter and myself. This is what I expected out of this particular Forum: information and support both to Midshipman, Parents and for USMMA....

Deepdraft and KP2001 were personally and professional unkind. They wrote exactly what they intended to write........"ground control...glad you got a laugh out of it" ....Grey Stack Air Lines....keep us posted when you return from space........ "

I am not laughing, neither did my daughter. I do not 'read in to' the writings of others. I do consider deepdraft and KP2001 comments hurtful and mocking. Next time I will be more direct addressing these kinds of comments to the specific persons as I have here.

Thank you for taking the time for the extended response to me. I will pass this on to my DD.