Yuk purge

[Hopefulplebemom2024]

Is the yuk purge a real thing/ can West Point only affirm a certain number of cadets?
If so, will 2024’s purge be bad considering the number of cadets added with the ma104 scandal?

 

[jl123]

Is the yuk purge a real thing/ can West Point only affirm a certain number of cadets?
If so, will 2024’s purge be bad considering the number of cadets added with the ma104 scandal?

There is no such thing as a Yuk purge. Never even heard that term before.

There is no limit on the number that can affirm. If 1,000 Cadets enter as Plebes, 1,000 can affirm, and 1,000 can graduate and commission. (assuming all have passed academically, physically, medically, etc.).

 

[shock-n-awe]

“Purge”. No
Class sizes get smaller (or larger in that class year ) for many reasons.
There we’re a number of Cadets in DS 21 class that got separated after Christmas break Yuk year. It happens, but the Cadets are the ones who put themselves in that position, it isn’t WP thinning the herd. Some Cadets also may wish to leave before affirmation.
If a Cadet stays out of trouble, seeks AI if struggling academically, is in good standing physically and militarily, and otherwise doing all they can to “make it” , but is still deficient in some area, you will likely be put on probation. You will report to a review board.
There is a reason for a review board. It’s for them to determine if you’re doing all of the above and have a strong desire to be there and graduate. If all of that is determined, and they feel you will be able to graduate, they will likely set a path to meet all requirements for graduation which could include some summer block commitments, ie: tutoring,STAP, extra PT, etc. depending on where you’re deficiency lies. One could also be a December grad or a one year turn back if time is needed.
Disciplinary action could also include “more time “ behind the wall if they still want you to continue and graduate.
The overall number of Cadets at an SA is determined by Congress, and typically adjustments to stay close to that number are made with the incoming class size.

 

[prospective2019]

It's a result of a combination of cadets not affirming (usually ~50-100), and academic boards. Cadets are not just dropped at random. If your son/daughter is in good standing they have no reason to be concerned.

 

[DrMom]

That is a myth. It would be a good myth to have die now. People do not graduate because they leave, fail out, get medically disqualified, etc. So...there is no purge. The Army and USMA are invested in each cadet...there is not a random kicking out of cadets.

 

[Goat 965]

“Purge”. No
Class sizes get smaller (or larger in that class year ) for many reasons.
There we’re a number of Cadets in DS 21 class that got separated after Christmas break Yuk year. It happens, but the Cadets are the ones who put themselves in that position, it isn’t WP thinning the herd. Some Cadets also may wish to leave before affirmation.
If a Cadet stays out of trouble, seeks AI if struggling academically, is in good standing physically and militarily, and otherwise doing all they can to “make it” , but is still deficient in some area, you will likely be put on probation. You will report to a review board.
There is a reason for a review board. It’s for them to determine if you’re doing all of the above and have a strong desire to be there and graduate. If all of that is determined, and they feel you will be able to graduate, they will likely set a path to meet all requirements for graduation which could include some summer block commitments, ie: tutoring,STAP, extra PT, etc. depending on where you’re deficiency lies. One could also be a December grad or a one year turn back if time is needed.
Disciplinary action could also include “more time “ behind the wall if they still want you to continue and graduate.
The overall number of Cadets at an SA is determined by Congress, and typically adjustments to stay close to that number are made with the incoming class size.

Some Cadet Candidates don't show up for R day!! and a number will part during Beast. There is a typical prediction, I think, that the Academy can make, with regard to numbers.

 

[Impulsive]

I believe there is a saying amongst Cadets..:"2.0 GOOD TO GO". The meaning is if you get a 2.0 you are maintaining "passing" grades and stay out of trouble you are not disenrolled. One other point, remember 1200+ NCC's report, and usually 900+ Graduate so there is a normal attrition rate of about 200-300 over the four years. Some leave because they realize the military life is not what they thought or want, others because a "better offer" comes along (a top tier University offers a full ride with a virtual guarantee of a high paying job upon graduation), others have medical issues and are either disenrolled or medical boarded out.

But a "YUK Purge", maybe some of the older posters have better insight, if it has ever happened I would venture a guess that following a war (WWII, Korea, Vietnam) there may have been a reduction in "incoming NCC's", generally NOT a forced reduction of cadets there. So instead of admitting 1200+, maybe they only admit 900+ for a few years, but I have not heard of anyone "forced out" who was in good standing.

 

[SAparent2023]

My '23 DS mentioned the Yuk purge earlier this summer and said the cheating scandal would increase the normal attrition for his class of 2023, which seems accurate.

 

[TX2023]

DS said there are so many rising Cow's outsourcing that they do not have enough personnel for Beast cadre. Anyone else hearing that?

 

[USMA 1994]

USMA uses a development model and Cadets are allowed a mis-step or two. Upperclassmen are judged on a harder standard as they have been there longer. The "Yuck Purge" is really just the timing of this evaluation. If a cadet fails a class or a PT test during Plebe year they are sent to STAP and given an opportunity to catch up. If they return Yuck year and continue to struggle, it is much less likely that they will be given second and third chances.

 

[SA-parent]

DS said there are so many rising Cow's outsourcing that they do not have enough personnel for Beast cadre. Anyone else hearing that?

Also hearing from our Cadet that out-processing is impacting Beast Cadre. When I asked why, I didn't really get a reason and the assumption made by our Cadet was that out-processing is pretty normal before affirmation particularly second detail since by that point in the summer Cadets are more likely to have made up their minds about what their future plans would be. Our Cadet did not use the term "Yuk Purge" in connection with out-processing decisions that are voluntary.

 

[UHBlackhawk]

I think this myth arises from people not understanding the officer assessment process for the Army.
Generally, there are 4 sources for officers.
1. SAs
2. ROTC
3. OCS
4. Direct commissions
The Army doesn’t just look at the number of 2LTs needed, but tried to project down the road for future needs. Of course, future needs can be difficult to predict.
We will ignore #4. Normally, this is used for assessing officers with technical skills such as doctors or those politically connected. The latter is not necessarily bad as they can turn out to be good officers. I did once swear in a WO pilot who got a direct commission to 2LT, but that was pretty rare. I’ll also ignore battlefield commissions as I don’t think there has been one since Viet Nam.
So with this, the Army plans on officer assessments using those sources above. If needs change, normally ROTC and OCS spigots are increased or decreased. As an example, DW had a “guaranteed” reserve officer ROTC scholarship. She had plans- grad school, get married. Then she got called in and congratulated by her ROTC PMS. She had been selected for a RA commission. Her insistence that the Army had made a huge mistake fell on deaf ears. Fine print and everything. Slow years such as post Desert Storm the opposite happens. Active duty became very competitive for ROTC, OCS classes were cut back, and LTs were shown the door left and right prior to their commitments being completed. But for those in the SA pipeline they normally don’t just show you the door as the military has already invested time and money on making you an officer. They probably spend more on you your first year than all four years of ROTC (outside of tuition).
So… with this, what’s with the “Yuk purge”? As pointed out, that’s just when it becomes obvious that some aren’t cut out for the SAs or even the military. Academically, physically, medically, mentally, or otherwise. Or some resign.
The standards may seem to change from one year to the next as well as superintendents and deans change brining in different policies.
But I haven’t heard of any policy of trying to purge the rolls.

 

[Impulsive]

Also hearing from our Cadet that out-processing is impacting Beast Cadre. When I asked why, I didn't really get a reason and the assumption made by our Cadet was that out-processing is pretty normal before affirmation particularly second detail since by that point in the summer Cadets are more likely to have made up their minds about what their future plans would be. Our Cadet did not use the term "Yuk Purge" in connection with out-processing decisions that are voluntary.

Our DS has not mentioned any "shortage" of Cadre. In most cases I think what is being called a "Yuk Purge" is nothing more that that moment of reckoning where a Cadet makes a life decision to leave the Academy. I am assuming here that I have it right and the reference here is to rising "Cows" and not really "Yuks"?? That is when "affirmation" and the 5 for 7 occurs and anyone not absolutely sure the military is for them decides to leave before owing any money to the government.

Remember, normal attrition is between 200-300+ for any given class year. Some of those leave Plebe Year, Some Yuk Year, and likely the majority of them at the beginning of "Cow" year (when they have to commit). I doubt many "Firsties" voluntarily leave, but some are either academically or medically separated. A Cadet can voluntarily disenroll or out process at any time prior to affirmation without financial or service time accruing.

 

[prospective2019]

Our DS has not mentioned any "shortage" of Cadre. In most cases I think what is being called a "Yuk Purge" is nothing more that that moment of reckoning where a Cadet makes a life decision to leave the Academy. I am assuming here that I have it right and the reference here is to rising "Cows" and not really "Yuks"?? That is when "affirmation" and the 5 for 7 occurs and anyone not absolutely sure the military is for them decides to leave before owing any money to the government.

Remember, normal attrition is between 200-300+ for any given class year. Some of those leave Plebe Year, Some Yuk Year, and likely the majority of them at the beginning of "Cow" year (when they have to commit). I doubt many "Firsties" voluntarily leave, but some are either academically or medically separated. A Cadet can voluntarily disenroll or out process at any time prior to affirmation without financial or service time accruing.

There is some shortage of CBT cadre from my class--I'm not following this thread too closely but I figured I'd clarify that.

 

[shock-n-awe]

There is some shortage of CBT cadre from my class--I'm not following this thread too closely but I figured I'd clarify that.

That shortage of personnel is also good training for Cadet cadre. It is a reality that may become real at times once in the big Army and they will need to know how to deal with it when it happens.

 

[Skip2020]

I believe there is a saying amongst Cadets..:"2.0 GOOD TO GO". The meaning is if you get a 2.0 you are maintaining "passing" grades and stay out of trouble you are not disenrolled. One other point, remember 1200+ NCC's report, and usually 900+ Graduate so there is a normal attrition rate of about 200-300 over the four years. Some leave because they realize the military life is not what they thought or want, others because a "better offer" comes along (a top tier University offers a full ride with a virtual guarantee of a high paying job upon graduation), others have medical issues and are either disenrolled or medical boarded out.

But a "YUK Purge", maybe some of the older posters have better insight, if it has ever happened I would venture a guess that following a war (WWII, Korea, Vietnam) there may have been a reduction in "incoming NCC's", generally NOT a forced reduction of cadets there. So instead of admitting 1200+, maybe they only admit 900+ for a few years, but I have not heard of anyone "forced out" who was in good standing.

What percentage do you think of the 200 to 300 in a class that leaves is during beast? I think I read that the 24 class had roughly 130 leave during beast last year.

 

[Impulsive]

What percentage do you think of the 200 to 300 in a class that leaves is during beast? I think I read that the 24 class had roughly 130 leave during beast last year.

@Skip2020, I am sure AFTER CBT that WP will publish the number of NC's being "Accepted". Compare that to the I think 1218 or something like that was mentioned as NCC's or incoming students. Don't forget that there are differing reasons for attrition during CBT. Some leave because they do not want to continue, some leave due to medical issues discovered during CBT, and some leave for administrative problems or issues. I think historically you are close in the 100-130 number, I am sure someone here can better specify the actual historical numbers.

 

[jl123]

Normally the number of New Cadets that don't finish CBT is fairly small, roughly 20 - 30. About 97% - 99% of those that report for R-Day are still there for the first day of classes. See the attached chart:

 

[Skip2020]

@Skip2020, I am sure AFTER CBT that WP will publish the number of NC's being "Accepted". Compare that to the I think 1218 or something like that was mentioned as NCC's or incoming students. Don't forget that there are differing reasons for attrition during CBT. Some leave because they do not want to continue, some leave due to medical issues discovered during CBT, and some leave for administrative problems or issues. I think historically you are close in the 100-130 number, I am sure someone here can better specify the actual historical numbers.

Thank you.

 

[USMAROTCFamily]

This could be a carryover from years ago. USMA used to have an attrition model where they were always looking to thin the ranks and it was survival of the fittest. They didn't try to give AI, 2nd chances, etc. DH's class started with 1440 and graduated something like 960. USMA is much different now, in that they really do see each cadet selected as able to make it and does their best to support each cadet to commissioning. I agree with everything said above in that there is no purge now.