2016 Class Statistics

My dd had several opportunities to play at BIG D 1 schools and many opportunities for smaller D1 schools, D2 etc. She wanted to attend AFA, period. She decided as a junior in high school, that if something were to happen and she couldn't play her sport at AF, she'd move on to another sport or club and try something new. There are so many opportunities in life, AFA was her priority.
 
usafamomma said:
My dd had several opportunities to play at BIG D 1 schools and many opportunities for smaller D1 schools, D2 etc. She wanted to attend AFA, period. She decided as a junior in high school, that if something were to happen and she couldn't play her sport at AF, she'd move on to another sport or club and try something new. There are so many opportunities in life, AFA was her priority.
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My son was the same. He got accepted to 5 different universities. 3 Full Rides; 1 50% ride; and 1 that we didn't get to the point of talking money yet. He said he'd rather go to the academy and never play football again than one of the other schools and play football. Luckily, he receive an early appointment; (First week of november); so he was able to turn down the other 4 schools. He was also fortunate that he got to play football. At least for his first year. So for him, it all worked out.

But I can honestly say that I have been disappointed in some cadets who were recruited athletes, and when they don't get to "Play" as much as they thought they should or wanted, they quit the academy and went to a different school. I'm all for athletes, 100%, but the military commitment must be your #1 priority if going to the academy. Not for the "Free ride" education; benefits; or to play a sport.
 
I did not intend to offend any athlete parents. I am truly sorry if I did. We are a huge sports fan and admire all athletics (in fact the joke is that if is not sports or the news it is not on at our house!). Some of our son's best friends are USAFA athletes. However, the fact remains that some leave for the reason I stated but that happens in any university. I was just simply trying to say that the reasons that cadets leave beside the military part (time management affecting grades, bad decisions, etc.) can't be sorted out in the appointment selection process. Would be nice if it could but to believe that it can is unrealistic. You know the old saying, "he looked good on paper"...
 
kdc246 said:
That is quite a generalization you made there. Maybe you know more than I, as you have a firstie. I do have a C2C non-athlete and and almost C4C who is an athlete. The athlete already knows at this early stage, if the team doesn't work out, he still wants to be an AF officer and is ready to make the commitment to do what it takes to reach the true end goal. Maybe that is not the case for some of them but to make a generalized statement like that incites the T-Zo gap.
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I don't know what you mean by incites, there is a T-zo gap. We all have stories that are good and bad when it come to the athlete. You make a refference " The athlete already knows at this early stage, if the team doesn't work out, he still wants to be an AF officer and is ready to make the commitment to do what it takes to reach the true end goal." This is a generalization IMHO as there are athletes who have played on a team and now will leave before commitment, and I speak of more than one athlete and more than one sport. Some have been asked to leave and some left of there own free will, but leave they do. What happens in the doolie year when the athlete comes back to the squadron eating a chik filet and his squadron is getting beat ( true story) do you not think that in itself helps to create a T-zo gap? My intention is to disguss not argue..
 
Additionally, it is very common for ICs to look down at their own teammates for participating in a training session.
 
I have encouraged my DS to participate in all squadron functions, to include "beat downs". His perspective is maybe different than some, having a sister who is not an athlete, he has seen the other sides perspective first. We hear all the stories, good and bad. What he knows and what he puts into practice during the coming year may be two different things, we won't know for a year. I am sure his sister will keep him well grounded :shake: She will not tolerate anything but the best from him, never has. If he strays and she finds out, there are other repercussions, such as the loss of using her vehicle. Also, most of the upperclassmen in his squadron now know he has a sister at USAFA. She at least waited for a week into BCT before she dropped that gem. For about two weeks straight at lunch and dinner he felt their probing eyes and waited for the wrath. He kept his wits and survived.They are very close and he has always looked up to her. She is also not afraid to tell him when he is screwing up!
I know there is a T-Zo gap, I just think that putting it out as generalized statement is wrong. I have never looked down on anyone my daughter has been affiliated with who was an athlete(one of her roommates her C4C year was an athlete). I think equally they both have demanding schedules in different ways. One is no better than the other, just possibly following a different path. I know that eating with the team is a perk that many feel any C4C's should not have, however raising two sons who swim competitively, there are different calorie requirements for athletes(they could clear a house of food in three days). So, it therefore maybe not always eating at attention is just to get enough calories in during a sitting. No better, no worse just different. DS will be up before most other C4C's as swimmers practice before the required wake up time. He will miss calling minutes three days a week(personally a loss if you ask me, I think it is all a learning experience). He will likely be up around 0430 for practice in the morning. Eat, go to classes, eat, go to afternoon practice for 2-3 hours, eat, study rinse and repeat daily. Not to mention Saturday practices. He may or may not make the travel team. I know he will have to manage his time completely or he will fall behind. He has been warned of all this before he left. I even recommended EI before he left, just to keep on top of things. Things I never worried about with my DD.
Oh and one other thing, there are those who do not commit, and possible they are influenced by family. I know of this happening also. Go to school for virtually nothing for two years and walk away not owing anything. A personal choice for sure. I am certainly willing to discuss and that is what I was trying to do. Yes, certainly there is a difference. I don't see one as better than the other, just different. My DS certainly had to meet all the other requirements for entrance into the Academy. Certainly didn't walk in with a 2400 SAT score, but a 2000 was nothing to scoff at either. His application was completed by the end of August his Senior year(there by increasing his chances for an appointment). He didn't have a perfect 4.0 gpa, but he did manage to swim competitively and attain the rank of Eagle Scout at the age of 14 and graduated hs with honors. When he set his mind to something he attained his goal. The only thing he didn't compete for was a Congressional nomination. By virtue of having two parents (only one required) who put in 20+years of service he was awarded a Presidential nomination. He did all the work required for the Congressional nomination, but received his appointment on October 31, a little more than a month before Congressional interviews were to occur. He did call the Congressman's office and let them know that he would not need the interview.
I think all perspectives are valid, again no better no worse, just different. I also do think one side should bash the other.
 
On the other hand, I also have seen athletes go the OTHER WAY. I won't say sport or class, but I've seen a recruited athlete that really wanted the academy. Turned down other schools. Got recruited to play a sport at the academy. Got to BCT; did fine; went through Acceptance. Coach said: "Ok, here's our practice schedule, bla bla". Cadet says: "I changed my mind. I don't want to play "X" sport anymore. I want to concentrate on academics and the military". And that's what he did.

I've seen quite a few of these who will use their sport to get into the academy and then drop the sport. Just like some will use their sport to get into many civilian colleges. Not all athletes have this delusion that they're going to the NFL, NBA, Olympics, etc.... Many are willing to use their sport to get to school. Some will be upset because if it hadn't been for the sport, that individual probably wouldn't have received an appointment. Oh well. You do what you have to if you want to get accepted.

Granted; MOST athletes think about the SPORT FIRST and the ACADEMY/MILITARY second. But not all. I know of at least 3 football players; all graduated within the last couple years; that graduated in the TOP-10 (Not 10%, BUT TOP 10) at the academy. Not too shabby considering they were ALL science/engineer majors and playing a sport. One had a 4.0gpa their entire freshman year and graduated with a 3.94.

So yes, there are some athletes who are self centered and care more about the sport than the academy/military. And yes, there is the "T-zo Gap". But to be honest, that gap is smaller than many want to believe. In other words, it's not the "Majority" of the athletes; rather the "Minority". And FWIW: There are OTHER gaps at the academy too. Not just athletes.
 
kdc246 said:
I have encouraged my DS to participate in all squadron functions, to include "beat downs". His perspective is maybe different than some, having a sister who is not an athlete, he has seen the other sides perspective first. We hear all the stories, good and bad. What he knows and what he puts into practice during the coming year may be two different things, we won't know for a year. I am sure his sister will keep him well grounded :shake: She will not tolerate anything but the best from him, never has. If he strays and she finds out, there are other repercussions, such as the loss of using her vehicle. Also, most of the upperclassmen in his squadron now know he has a sister at USAFA. She at least waited for a week into BCT before she dropped that gem. For about two weeks straight at lunch and dinner he felt their probing eyes and waited for the wrath. He kept his wits and survived.They are very close and he has always looked up to her. She is also not afraid to tell him when he is screwing up!
I know there is a T-Zo gap, I just think that putting it out as generalized statement is wrong. I have never looked down on anyone my daughter has been affiliated with who was an athlete(one of her roommates her C4C year was an athlete). I think equally they both have demanding schedules in different ways. One is no better than the other, just possibly following a different path. I know that eating with the team is a perk that many feel any C4C's should not have, however raising two sons who swim competitively, there are different calorie requirements for athletes(they could clear a house of food in three days). So, it therefore maybe not always eating at attention is just to get enough calories in during a sitting. No better, no worse just different. DS will be up before most other C4C's as swimmers practice before the required wake up time. He will miss calling minutes three days a week(personally a loss if you ask me, I think it is all a learning experience). He will likely be up around 0430 for practice in the morning. Eat, go to classes, eat, go to afternoon practice for 2-3 hours, eat, study rinse and repeat daily. Not to mention Saturday practices. He may or may not make the travel team. I know he will have to manage his time completely or he will fall behind. He has been warned of all this before he left. I even recommended EI before he left, just to keep on top of things. Things I never worried about with my DD.
Oh and one other thing, there are those who do not commit, and possible they are influenced by family. I know of this happening also. Go to school for virtually nothing for two years and walk away not owing anything. A personal choice for sure. I am certainly willing to discuss and that is what I was trying to do. Yes, certainly there is a difference. I don't see one as better than the other, just different. My DS certainly had to meet all the other requirements for entrance into the Academy. Certainly didn't walk in with a 2400 SAT score, but a 2000 was nothing to scoff at either. His application was completed by the end of August his Senior year(there by increasing his chances for an appointment). He didn't have a perfect 4.0 gpa, but he did manage to swim competitively and attain the rank of Eagle Scout at the age of 14 and graduated hs with honors. When he set his mind to something he attained his goal. The only thing he didn't compete for was a Congressional nomination. By virtue of having two parents (only one required) who put in 20+years of service he was awarded a Presidential nomination. He did all the work required for the Congressional nomination, but received his appointment on October 31, a little more than a month before Congressional interviews were to occur. He did call the Congressman's office and let them know that he would not need the interview.
I think all perspectives are valid, again no better no worse, just different. I also do think one side should bash the other.
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+1 :thumb:
 
Christcorp said:
Many are willing to use their sport to get to school. Some will be upset because if it hadn't been for the sport, that individual probably wouldn't have received an appointment. Oh well. You do what you have to if you want to get accepted....
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My DS will probably not be playing a D1 sport. He will try out as a walk on. That being said, I wholeheartedly agree that you do what you have to in order to get to the school of your choice.

No matter how a student enters into the USAFA, the bar has been set pretty high. There are other skills that are more important than raw brain power / IQ. Very smart talented athletes may have a better balance of needed skills. I support the rational of attracting smart talented athletes for leadership roles in our military. :thumb:

I have met some parents who's DS was recruited last year to play hockey at the USAFA. Their DS turned down the opportunity. The parent explained to us that the coach said that their son wouldn't have to do a lot of the same activities. It was relayed in a tone with details that said many of the military drills could be dodged. As best as I could tell, that family was being sold that it really wasn't a hard military school and that their DS could dodge a lot of the day-to-day grind. I wonder if that potential recruit who was hesitating to go is the right student / choice for our country to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on?

What bothered me a little was when I learned that they flew their DS out to look at the academy. Our DS of course had to pay his own way. Their DS had a God given talent to play hockey and is pretty smart. Our DS has a God given talent in academics and is a decent athlete. By flying out their DS and not my DS, it sends a message that one path is more important than the other. I'm not faulting their DS. He didn't make the rules and I surely would have told my DS to hop on that plane and take a look at the opportunity on the tax payers nickel.

Could someone please explain what this "T-Zo Gap" is?? I never heard of it. Google comes up empty other than an odd youtube video.
 
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MN-Dad-2016 said:
My DS will probably not be playing a D1 sport. He will try out as a walk on. That being said, I wholeheartedly agree that you do what you have to in order to get to the school of your choice.

No matter how a student enters into the USAFA, the bar has been set pretty high. There are other skills that are more important than raw brain power / IQ. Very smart talented athletes may have a better balance of needed skills. I support the rational of attracting smart talented athletes for leadership roles in our military. :thumb:

I have met some parents who's DS was recruited last year to play hockey at the USAFA. Their DS turned down the opportunity. The parent explained to us that the coach said that their son wouldn't have to do a lot of the same activities. It was relayed in a tone with details that said many of the military drills could be dodged. As best as I could tell, that family was being sold that it really wasn't a hard military school and that their DS could dodge a lot of the day-to-day grind. I wonder if that potential recruit who was hesitating to go is the right student / choice for our country to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on?

What bothered me a little was when I learned that they flew their DS out to look at the academy. Our DS of course had to pay his own way. Their DS had a God given talent to play hockey and is pretty smart. Our DS has a God given talent in academics and is a decent athlete. By flying out their DS and not my DS, it sends a message that one path is more important than the other. I'm not faulting their DS. He didn't make the rules and I surely would have told my DS to hop on that plane and take a look at the opportunity on the tax payers nickel.

Could someone please explain what this "T-Zo Gap" is?? I never heard of it. Google comes up empty other than an odd youtube video.
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Just put T-Zo Gap in the search for post you will find alot. I think you are very close to explaining it now..
 
aglages said:
What are the OTHER gaps at USAFA?
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The T-zo gap mentioned is basically like any other gathering in society. It's like a Clique. A group that feels different than others; and that others feel differently than them. You will find the drum/bugle have their own little clique. As well as other clubs, groups, etc...

The difference is, athletics and the athletes have had a Social stigma attached to them and BY THEM, for a much longer time and there's a lot of IC athletes. Some of the athletes think they are "Special" and should have a different life. But we've seen it with the cheerleaders, jump team, d&b, etc... Just that athletics is more pronounced.

But you will find that the MAJORITY of all these individuals do believe in the air force academy; the team; the training; and the ultimate mission of the air force. MOST of them don't like the T-zo gap any more than the remaining traditional student/cadets. My point is that in any society, their will be cliques, and athletes aren't the only ones. They just happen to be the largest group and the "gap" usually relates to them. mike...
 
Thanks Mike!

Fortunately I believe the following is 100% accurate:

Christcorp said:
...you will find that the MAJORITY of all these individuals do believe in the air force academy; the team; the training; and the ultimate mission of the air force. MOST of them don't like the T-zo gap any more than the remaining traditional student/cadets....
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Christcorp said:
On the other hand, I also have seen athletes go the OTHER WAY. I won't say sport or class, but I've seen a recruited athlete that really wanted the academy. Turned down other schools. Got recruited to play a sport at the academy. Got to BCT; did fine; went through Acceptance. Coach said: "Ok, here's our practice schedule, bla bla". Cadet says: "I changed my mind. I don't want to play "X" sport anymore. I want to concentrate on academics and the military". And that's what he did.

I've seen quite a few of these who will use their sport to get into the academy and then drop the sport. Just like some will use their sport to get into many civilian colleges. Not all athletes have this delusion that they're going to the NFL, NBA, Olympics, etc.... Many are willing to use their sport to get to school. Some will be upset because if it hadn't been for the sport, that individual probably wouldn't have received an appointment. Oh well. You do what you have to if you want to get accepted.

Granted; MOST athletes think about the SPORT FIRST and the ACADEMY/MILITARY second. But not all. I know of at least 3 football players; all graduated within the last couple years; that graduated in the TOP-10 (Not 10%, BUT TOP 10) at the academy. Not too shabby considering they were ALL science/engineer majors and playing a sport. One had a 4.0gpa their entire freshman year and graduated with a 3.94.

So yes, there are some athletes who are self centered and care more about the sport than the academy/military. And yes, there is the "T-zo Gap". But to be honest, that gap is smaller than many want to believe. In other words, it's not the "Majority" of the athletes; rather the "Minority". And FWIW: There are OTHER gaps at the academy too. Not just athletes.
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DS was case in point. He came out of HS one of the top 10 recruits in the country and had times faster than the AF record in the 200 free. Ended up not liking the coaching style and stand-offishness of the team to the rest of the cadets. Ended up leaving team in november of his soph year totally getting into his squad training the freshman... and did great in grades. Probably the best thing that happened to him. Of his recruited class of 7 only one remains. They also lost one of the better recruits in the class before his (2013) for similar reasons.

Point is there is so much to do and learn at the academy that athletics become a minor priority.
 
I know the wrestling Coach tells his guys if there roommates think they are getting out of something to tell them to come out (no one gets cut). Not to many end up staying.
 
Jarhead said:
I know the wrestling Coach tells his guys if there roommates think they are getting out of something to tell them to come out (no one gets cut). Not to many end up staying.
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Your cadet likes to wrestle so he is doing what he likes others play football or somthing else they like, IC walks into his dorm eating chik filet while others are getting beat or have to taken beatings while IC was at at practice, and IC's or athlete will and do take advantage of system where NARP cannot, and as a matter of fact narp will/may have to do things or cover for the IC or athlete.
I am pointing to some reasons not picking a side IMHO.. The coach has to earn a living too.
 
Seems like you are taking sides but whatever. They may get out of some beatings but its not like they are laying on the couch. They are working there tails off. And take it from someone who knows when the sh!t hits the fan those competitive experences of any athlete mean something.
 
In order to demonstrate the T-zo gap one needs to look at both sides, in addition there are many athletes who attend the academy that are not IC's.
 
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