AFA Informant Program

Discussion in 'Academy/Military News' started by DHinNH, Dec 1, 2013.

  1. DHinNH

    DHinNH USMA 1989

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  2. MedB

    MedB Parent

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    Just...wow
     
  3. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I agree, this is a wow...just wow.:jaw:
     
  4. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    It's a wonder the participants don't walk around with a nervous tick!
     
  5. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    I want to see some articles not centered on cadets who have been separated.

    Maybe a few more iterations until I believe what I'm reading.
     
  6. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

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    Sadly - this doesn't really seem to be written like it is sour grapes. But-is it possible that even the Superintendant doesn't know that he has cadets being used as informants by OSI??
     
  7. raimius

    raimius USAFA Alumnus

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    Seems pretty shameful to me, at first glance.
    I'm betting there is more to the story, but I'm worried it's not substantial enough to alter the current image by much!

    I could see OSI not revealing the details of current investigations to non-Law Enforcement types at the base. So...maybe?
     
  8. robinhood17

    robinhood17 USMA Cadet

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    Some light shed (paraphrased):

    OSI does not release the names of the informants to anyone. It is like asking the president if he knows the names of the top FBI/CIA informants. It's not need to know.

    All informants are documented. There are no "secret" informants, It doesn't do much good to have very many people know, how else to find flaws in leadership if the commander is the problem.

    The informants featured in this article are referred to "dirty", because they committed a crime prior to being sought after for this purpose in return for leniency. I'm sure that there are informants that are clean,. Usually it deals with drugs, as finding the dealer is difficult. Additionally, all informants in the OSI are required to sign documentation stating that their seeking of information should not violate the law in any sort, which is contrary to civilan police informants which may break the law to assist in convictions.

    That leniency does not mean their initial crime goes unpunished. For these cadets, it is separation without an Article 15 or official case. Additionally the Cadet (Thomas) I believe was relieved of his 180,000 fine for being separated in his senior year.

    The freedom of information act does not apply to informants.

    The OSI will neither accept or deny an informants identity due to security and safety protocols.

    In short, these cadets were separated from the academy because of their initial violations. Being an informant does not grant a "get out of jail free" card.

    Whether or not this violates the honor system, I'm not sure. It is a sucessful program apparently.

    If you read the article again knowing all of that, the perspective changes quite a bit. None of the cadets opposing are saying "I was a perfect student, never did anything wrong or illegal, and they forced me to break a law and I got expelled."
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 24, 2016
  9. DHinNH

    DHinNH USMA 1989

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    Re-read the article and click on the links. It is evident from those links that FOIA does apply. Through documents obtained via FOIA requests, OSI has confirmed that Thomas was an informant.
     
  10. Freda'sMom

    Freda'sMom Parent

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    If the vice-Commandant at the Academy knew, then the claim of the Superintendent rings hollow.

    The claim by the AF Chief of Staff that he knew nothing seems dubious as well.

    You're not sure? :confused:

     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2013
  11. futuremarinemom

    futuremarinemom Member

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    I wonder if this is going on at the other academies as well. Very disturbing!
     
  12. NorwichDad

    NorwichDad Member

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    Well I think cadets have a responsibility to report misconduct based on honor codes. But this seems they are coerced into joining. I would think most 18 or 19 year olds would not be prepared to handle this. I saw nothing on training.

    We will wait to see the other side of the story.
     
  13. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    I'm pretty sure it wasn't happening at CGA.
     
  14. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    This seems low level enough that the AF Chief of Staff has no reason to know. Contrary to popular believe, the academies aren't the number one priority for each service's most senior leadership. There is so much misconduct across every service, being investigated every day. I'm not surprised something like this wouldn't rise to the very top.
     
  15. robinhood17

    robinhood17 USMA Cadet

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  16. falconfamily

    falconfamily Member

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    Actually it is HIGHLY unlikely that the AF Chief of Staff would be directly involved with something of this nature. You also need to understand how organizations like the OSI operate, they are very secretive in nature and have authority to conduct operations without extensive involvement of leadership when they are given a mission. i.e. address Sexual Assaults, Drug use, etc.

    My thoughts exactly, to conduct an operation of this nature on what is essentially a college campus, shows a real lack of judgement on the people involved. Having an environment where people do not trust one another is corrosive to good order and discipline.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2013
  17. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I would not expect CoS would not know of this, because it is low level. However, I would expect that the Supe would know since this operation is on their base. Just my assumption and 0.019653 cents.
     
  18. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

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    Well- I can understand how the AF Chief of Staff isn't involved. But if I was the 3 Star Superintendant at USAFA & read this in the newspaper and I truly didn't know- then I would be in the AF Cof S office asking for the heads on a platter of the clowns in OSI (and though I have no experience with the AF OSI- I am certain that they are like CID and that I am not mischaracterizing them) or else I would be publicly handing in my walking papers because as presented this a gut-shot to the very concept of honor,to the Academy and to how it trains leaders. This is an appalling story
     
  19. Freda'sMom

    Freda'sMom Parent

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    Thanks for the clarification about the CoS.

    I only mentioned it because of this statement in the article:

    I thought that someone (the only one) with authority over both organizations might know when they are interacting with each other, as he is the only person who controlled both.
     
  20. osdad

    osdad Member

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    The article is dated yesterday...by now word will have spread throughout all of the SA's. In all probability these young men and women will react by becoming less trusting, less tolerant, less forthcoming, more secretive, more independent (Shipmate? What shipmate? Why should I give a damn about my shipmates?) and yes, less honorable going forward.

    But OSI (and NCIS/CID) will claim a great victory.
     

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