applying as a 4/c cadet from another academy?

Discussion in 'Air Force Academy - USAFA' started by icantthinkofone, May 19, 2010.

  1. icantthinkofone

    icantthinkofone New Member

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    Hello. I wanted to know how applying as a current 4/c cadet from one academy to another service academy works. As a 4/c cadet it would seem that even trying to set up a nomination interview would seem impossible as the academies dont let you leave on the weekends.
     
  2. Falcon2014

    Falcon2014 Above All

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    Why do you want to leave your current academy?
     
  3. icantthinkofone

    icantthinkofone New Member

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    My end goal is to become a pilot. I'm concerned that the CGA might not be able to give me as much of an opportunity to accomplish this as the AFA would
     
  4. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    We should talk percentages.

    I had a classmate who tried to lateral over, for the same reason. Didn't go through. You would start over.

    Anyone know what percentage of AFA grads are pilots straight out?
     
  5. icantthinkofone

    icantthinkofone New Member

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    Didn't go through? is that because he wasnt accepted? or he just didnt want to start his year over again

    Personally, if doing another year as a 4/c to become a pilot is what it takes, then i am 110% for it
     
  6. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    No, he could have dropped out, he was trying to lateral over directly....as a 3/c or 2/c...

    It might be a good thing to bring up with your company chief.
     
  7. Falcon2014

    Falcon2014 Above All

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    About 50% of AFA grads receive pilot slots after graduation. Now they might not become pilots right away, they have to wait to go to UPT, but around 500 every year are sent to UPT after they graduate. Generally, if you are a USAFA grad and you are medically qualified, you get a pilot slot. I talked to a guy whose roommate was near the bottom of the class and still received a pilot slot.
     
  8. icantthinkofone

    icantthinkofone New Member

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    if i were to apply as a 4/c from CGA, would i still need to get a nomination, nomination interview,...etc. or do they just generally accept applicants from other SA's on the spot?
     
  9. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    Welcome to Congressional over sight.....You should sign up for an interview.
     
  10. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    You keep speaking of "As a C4C". So I must assume that you have an appointment to the coast guard this summer; and that you aren't actually a cadet yet. If so, then I would consider 3 things.

    1. If you really care about serving your country, and obviously there was some interest in the coast guard or you wouldn't have applied to them, then consider sticking with the coast guard. They do fly planes too you know. Maybe not fighters or bombers, but they do have flying slots. (And please, don't tell me that the ONLY reason you applied to the Coast Guard was for the "FREE" education if you didn't get into another academy. I don't want to hear that)

    2. Consider turning down the coast guard appointment; so someone who really wants to go to the coast guard academy can have it. Go to college, get into AFROTC, and apply next year again for the air force academy. "Especially if you'd have to start all over again and aren't allowed a lateral transfer". And if you don't get an air force appointment, you still have ROTC which can also get you a pilot slot.

    3. While it is true that 50% of air force cadets do get a slot to pilot training, there are a few things to consider. A: Not everyone is qualified for pilot training. Not just your eyes either. B: Some people change their mind during the academy. Probably close to 90% come in with dreams of being a pilot. Then they learn more about the military; a 10 year commitment; that they puked like crazy in the glider; etc... Basically; 90% start out wanting to fly, but only about 50% actually get a pilot slot for UPT. (Undergraduate Pilot Training). C: Just because you get a pilot slot, doesn't mean you won't wash out. It doesn't matter how badly you want to be a pilot, some wash out. Then where are you. (I hope the only reason you want to go to an academy and be in the military isn't just to be a pilot).

    Only you know the answers to all these, AND MORE, questions. Why did you even apply to the coast guard if you have no desire to be in the coast guard. There are some applicants that apply to ALL the different academies. Many for the "Right Reason". E.g. They want to SERVE their country, they want to be a commissioned officer, and they don't care how they serve. Then there are some that simply want the free education; plan on doing a 5 and dive anyway; so they don't care what academy they get. (This is the WRONG attitude. At least in MY opinion). Obviously that's not your position, because as a pilot, you have the next 14 years tied up in the military. (4 at the academy and 10 on active duty). Many applicants know exactly what they want, and HOW they want to serve. There is nothing wrong with this either. Most of them applied only to 1 or 2 academies. They knew those were the branches of the military where they felt they could best be passionate about. If they didn't get an appointment, they moved onto college, ROTC, and reapplying next year. But it is curious that you would apply to an academy, accept the appointment, and then be asking how to get out of it into a sister academy. I personally think you have some deep soul searching to do. But that's your task. Only you can answer those questions.
     
  11. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    I assumed it was a current 4/c, as you are a Swab until you see a Swab...
     
  12. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    The reason I didn't think he was a current C4C, was because if he had been at the coast guard academy for any length of time, he's know that they too have planes, and he could pursue his goal as a pilot in the coast guard. Unless of course he has a fetish for bombers and fighters. Plus, I would have thought that he might have asked around there for the possibilities of re-applying to a different academy. Especially considering he would have just finished his first year at the coast guard academy.

    On the other hand, I've know people finishing up their 4th year of college; yes, graduating with a B.S. degree, who have accepted an appointment to the air force academy where they'll have to do another 4 years of college. So, I guess anything is possible.
     
  13. PDub

    PDub Prospective

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    Please do not persue USAFA with the sole goal of getting to fly, as you can serve honorably as a Coast Guard officer. But on the other hand, if you realize USAFA is what you've truely wanted all along, I'm sure it's possible to outprocess USCGA and start a USAFA application...I would not expect shortcuts simply by having been a USCGA midshipman.
     
  14. Gray Hog

    Gray Hog USMA Alumnus

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    If anything, I cold see this working against him. To me, he would appear uncommitted and wishy washy. I would doubt whether he could be counted on to see USAFA all the way through either. I would also be resentful for the kid whom he beat out for that USCGA slot who is probably now going to some state school and may never get to be a CG officer, because a guy who didn't really want it, himself, took that opportunity from him.

    They are "cadets" too, not "midshipmen," by the way.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2010
  15. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    In all fairness to the OP, you can't play the "Someone didn't get in because you took a slot" argument. At the air force academy, there's an average of about 80 individuals who drop out or fail out during BCT. There's some that literally just don't show up on "I" day. And in the 4 year period, there will be approximately 350 who will realize it isn't for them or they get kicked out. All of this is taken into consideration by the academies. Yes, it would be nice if the academy could recruit in guaranteed cadets who knew everything about the academy and the military prior to applying. And that those they got in stayed 20 years in the military. That would be nice, but it wouldn't be practical. Plus, the classes would be much smaller than the 1300-1400 they accept now.

    Individuals change their perception every day at the academies. On average, there's probably close to 80-85% of all applicant, prior to "I" day, saying they want to be a pilot in the air force. OK; fast forward 3 years. Of an average graduating class of 1000 cadets, they hand out approximately 500 pilot slots. And the slots they have reserved, they don't normally fill. This isn't because it's uber competitive. It's because people change their mind. A lot can change in 4 years.

    I'm not dogging anyone here; but do you all remember "MARS BOY"? He was about the most gung-ho applicant imaginable. To the point of arrogance. Now, put all that aside, and realize that when push come to shove, he didn't want to be at the academy. Yes, he had academic issues, but it's obvious that the academy was not what he thought it was going to be.

    And this is the double edge sword that this coast guard cadet must deal with. There is no guarantee at all that he can have a pilot slot. I believe that he has to get his priorities straight.

    IN ORDER:
    1. Want to serve your country. (This means being willing to do whatever job you wind up qualified for. NOT just the one you wanted when you were 18 years old)
    2. Want to be part of something larger than yourself.
    3. Want to be challenged by a top notch college and a military lifestyle.
    4. Want to get one of the best educations in the country.
    5. Want to be the best you can be.

    And once you get to the academy, you have to realize that you have to be flexible. You might not be able to become pilot qualified. Or maybe, you don't do as well in your classes as you wanted to, and don't get the other job you wanted. Maybe you just can't handle the full time 24/7 military/academy mentality. "Maybe just not yet". Perhaps you realize that ROTC is a better choice for you. My son is getting promoted to R2D2 (C2C) in another couple weeks. "Currently he's a C-3PO (C3C). (Class of 2012). He still has over 1200 students in his class. But there is no doubt that before 1 August of this year, before the next semester starts, that number will be much less. Other than getting kicked out, this is the last chance the cadets have to change their mind, "without owing anything back to the government". And many of this cadets will take their 2 year education and transfer to another school. Many of these cadets came in with the same enthusiasm and passion that we see on this forum from all the applicants. Many wanted to be pilots. So dreamed of being a scientist. Things change. Can't tell you how many times my son has gone back and forth on what he wants to do after graduating the academy. It's still a choice between 2 things, but things can still change again.

    So, to the OP, think real hard about what you really want. Realize that that passion and desire can and will change in the next few years no matter what you choose now. Things don't get better or worse; just different. You grow up. You mature. You realize that there's a "REAL WORLD" out there. You go IN and OUT of relationships. I don't know why you accepted or even applied to the coast guard. I have to assume there is something about it that interests you. If that interest is still there, then I recommend you keep that appointment and go to the coast guard academy. If you really want to fly, you can do that there. And if you change your mind in another year or two, so what. Same thing could happen in the air force academy. Anyway, I think you've received a lot of good and different perspectives. You really need to sit back and figure out what you want. best of luck. mike...
     
  16. Gray Hog

    Gray Hog USMA Alumnus

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    I absolutely can play the "Someone didn't get in because you took a slot" argument when we are talking about someone asking for a second chance at doing the exact same thing! Yes it would be nice if it were possible to weed out all the flaky kids from those with real commitments, but, as you point out, that is impossible...the first time. Once one has identified himself as a ship jumper, anyone willing to give him a second chance really would be taking a much higher risk at the expense of other applicants whose true commitment is not (yet) in question. A prudent person would think twice before giving another slot to someone who had already wasted one. Once bitten, twice shy.
     
  17. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    You make a great point Hog. Unfortunately, there will always be that 1 last person. The #1 NON-Selectee. On average, the air force academy gives out 1700 offers of appointment; know that between 300-400 are going to turn them down. Most times it's more than that, and they go to the wait list.

    Now that's not to say that it's right that a person should just not have any consideration for the other applicants when they are deciding whether to take an appointment; stay with the academy; or change their mind later. But the thing that we are all speculating on is the original poster's status. He's never come back on to clarify a very important question. Is he a current Coast Guard cadet, or does he have an appointment and will be attending the CG academy this summer? That makes a huge difference. If he's already a cadet, that means he just finished his 1st year at the academy. In my opinion, there's no way he's going to get an appointment to any other academy. He'd be starting the application process again, this summer, finding out later, and not attending until the summer of 2011. That means 2 years already done with his current academy enrollment. That's bloody retarded. Why would he have taken a year off and not applied for this class. That's why I don't think he's at the CG academy yet. Which means he'd be getting ready for basic.

    In my opinion, he needs to make a decision. Take the CG appointment because you want to serve and there's something about the coast guard that excites you. Or, turn down the appointment, go to college, get into AFROTC, and apply to the air force academy for next year. Having turned down the coast guard appointment would not look that bad on him. There's plenty of time to give that slot to someone else; so that isn't an issue. And turning down an appointment because you really wanted the air force is going to give one of two messages. Either: Wow, you must really love the air force to turn down another academy appointment. "Impressive". OR; Why the hell did you even apply to the coast guard if you're just going to turn it down.

    Anyway, the whole idea that there's someone who could miss out on an appointment because of this person is so unlikely. He can't be a current CG cadet. To ask this question would mean he'd have 2 years as a cg cadet. You don't throw that away to start all over. And he was asking about a C4C changing over. So, if he turns down the cg appointment now, someone else can have it. No one loses.
     
  18. ZoomingFalcon

    ZoomingFalcon Cadet

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    I don't know much about this, but what about a cross-commission from CG to AF?
     
  19. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    I did meet a West Point cadet who went to AFA right out of high school. After the first year he resigned. After a year or two (I think he was 21 when he commenced at West Point) he applied to West Point, was offered an appointment and accepted.

    What I can't figure out is why anyone would want to repeat Beast/Plebe summer over again?
     
  20. icantthinkofone

    icantthinkofone New Member

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    Okay, Let me clarrify things.
    I am going to the CGA this summer which means I am GOING to be a 4/c. My goal is to serve my country as an officer and be a pilot. Yes, I would be content with serving my country as an officer even if i dont become a pilot. Yes, I realize that there's no gaurantees for recieving a pilot slot and completing flight school. But isnt that what life in general is about, taking that shot to achieve your dreams. It would just be nice to have the option of choosing my path to my dream. I am the type of person that wants all odds on my side, I look at different situations and ask myself "which path gives me the best opportunity"

    Now some of you say "why the hell is this kid even taking the CGA appointment if he wants to apply to the AFA" Well for a number of reasons. 1. I think it would be foolish to turn down that "assured" opportunity when i dont even know if the AFA would accept me next year. 2. Christcorp puts it nicely when he/she says "people change their minds over the course of the years" so why not just have that option of being able to go to the AFA? Does that mean i will ditch the CGA? No, but it is certainly nice to have a choice, whether it be for the better or worse, at least you still have a choice. I can never weigh my options for something unless i have something to weigh in my hands

    As for the "you're taking the slot of someone else", well maybe they should have gone the extra length that I went in order to get that appointment.
     

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