Army ROTC 2023-2024 1st Board

[Herman_Snerd]

Kind of a stretch to say 'very often.' Even in the controversial COVID year, over 70% made it through. And I'm sure the # is even higher for scholarship cadets, probably pushing 90% for scholarship cadets.

I'll just provide the facts as reported by Air Force Times (look it up if interested) and leave it to others to decide how to label it. I certainly wouldn't minimize that even on average years 27% of those in that program are not invited to move forward (see data below). - that's a lot of people who put their trust in the Air Force, and were left stranded on the proverbial side of the road. The AF sent a bus to pick some of them back up in the great slash year, but it still was and annually is a burn for people who work hard believing their performance will count/ keep them safe as it does in other branches. To be fair LOTs of people do not make it to commissioning from each source/ branch, but others typically can point to some standard they didn't meet, some rule they broke, etc.

Higher-than-normal officer retention rates during COVID-19 and 2019 end strength projections in excess of current authorizations led to the initial decision to select only 56 percent of cadets to attend field training, officials told Air Force Times.

Nearly 1,000 cadets, approximately 250 of whom were on scholarship, were not selected, according to Air Force spokesperson Ann Stefanek.

After members of Congress, families and retired officers lobbied for the Air Force to review its decision, the service reevaluated its numbers (un-rang the bell) and reinstated more than 400 cadets, including approximately 130 on scholarship, the Washington Post first reported.

“We cut too deep,” Stefanek told AirForce Times. “We recognized that the planned reductions to meet end strength requirements were going to cause unanticipated hardships for many well-qualified cadets.”

Typically, Air Force ROTC selects nearly 75 percent of its second-year cadets to continue in the program after their second year, Stefanek said. *Note: However have seen years where only 65 percent moved forward.* Cadets compete through two years of the General Military Course before attending summer field training and being selected for two more years of the Professional Officer Course.

According to Stefanek, the reversal will place selection rates at 73 percent.

 

[DJmav]

Yeah that was the article I saw. 130 scholarship cadets did not make it. I can't find an exact number but looking at other stats, I am going to say a total of 1000 scholarship cadets for that cohort(probably more). So 13% of scholarship cadets not making it...I would think it comparable to the number of Army ROTC kids that drop out or do not make it to field training.

Also, it seems that Air Force scholarships has been cut significantly since 2021 making it even better chances for the upcoming scholarship recipients. I would think you really have to be lacking something to not get field training at this point.

 

[Herman_Snerd]

Yeah that was the article I saw. 130 scholarship cadets did not make it. I can't find an exact number but looking at other stats, I am going to say a total of 1000 scholarship cadets for that cohort(probably more). So 13% of scholarship cadets not making it...I would think it comparable to the number of Army ROTC kids that drop out or do not make it to field training.

Also, it seems that Air Force scholarships has been cut significantly since 2021 making it even better chances for the upcoming scholarship recipients. I would think you really have to be lacking something to not get field training at this point.

With regards to really having to be lacking something to not get field training, that's not what past data always supports - sure there were some who didn't make the standard(s) and were notified/ that was very clear - but, again let's please not minimize what happens here year over year - the impact and choices the Air Force makes here in cutting people who are not clear / were not notified that that something was lacking - had no write-ups, no deficiencies, and yet were shown the door - this is exactly the point. look up Kaili Glasser from MIT - MIT mechanical engineering, near perfect grades, rowed crew (elite athlete), was one of the people initially cut until Kaili went loud/ public, and created a PR nightmare amid the national outcry including to congress - AF unrang the bell and did a take-back of many of the dismissals (all from published articles, not protected data). Look up the students from Cornell/ Yale with 4.0 GPAs and tech majors who again were completely surprised. We share data here/ help folks on their journeys and all AF candidates deserve to know what happens with that branch - they offer "4" year scholarships, then opt out after 2 in some cases - that one year they started with cutting 250 people on scholarship until their mea culpa moonwalk. You can love the Air Force and make it your top choice - but candidates beware - folks too can consider joining a training branch where you know where you stand like Army or Navy.

 

[gooseblitz]

First congrats to you and all HSSP Type 1 winners - certainly getting a type 1 out of HS for AFROTC is competitive. It's something to be proud of.

OK - Which is more selective? Probably Air Force over Army (best guess) statistically. Which is more valuable/ coveted? IMO, Army over Air force - here is why.

I think every AFROTC winner should be aware that your scholarship is basically a 2 year scholarship, and then you have to be invited to advance and finish training and commission. For Army, Navy all options, there is more of a fairness factor - meet each of the standards - keep moving forward. Ultimately my DS received all 3 scholarships - got the AF 4 year HSSP first, but given their cast-aside mentality of starting with more than they need, meh, I'm glad he chose to train to be an officer through one of the other programs. He has a military bearing, strong interest - I knew he'd try to commission and serve. Didn't know where though. A lot of those people AFROTC cut 4-5 years ago had near full rides that they gave up to use the AFROTC scholarships. Then when they were cut those scholarships from the school etc were no longer available. sca---rew---ed. Also, research which Army or other ROTC branch schools might offer you room and board if AFROTC will not. Examples - outstanding grades, no write-up, by all accounts active AFROTC cadets are not invited to move forward after 2 years - I'm talking MIT and Cornell undergrads with near perfect grades, for a real example - all based on the needs of the Air Force. It's IMO cold and a careless practice. That said - if you want to fly an AF airframe, love the AF mission - space or regular, or want to serve in cyber or whatever for the air force, then pursue your dream and take your chances. Just be aware you might be cut anyway and be out on a lurch and after grinding it out to meet their standards.... But you do you - pursue your own dream.

My 3rd son wants to fly but I saw the high stat cadets that got cut and that scares the bejesus out of us. He is applying to both but I also noted several schools of his offer R&B add on to AROTC cadets but not AFROTC. He will likely choose AROTC...if he has choice.

 

[sweetpea3829]

My 3rd son wants to fly but I saw the high stat cadets that got cut and that scares the bejesus out of us. He is applying to both but I also noted several schools of his offer R&B add on to AROTC cadets but not AFROTC. He will likely choose AROTC...if he has choice.

Keep in mind, he can fly if he goes Navy. I think the Navy actually offers a better chance at flying than the AF.

 

[gooseblitz]

True. He is pursuing all avenues. He has more flexible major options with AROTC. If he doesn't branch aviation he will likely use GI bill for flight school after his officer commitment.

 

[SandmanSurfer]

Has anyone done an ECP program? My daughter recieved notification yesterday that she was awarded a 4yr scholarship to an ECP program, which would commission her as 2LT after 2 years and then the Army would also pay for the remaining 2 years at a college of her choice. It looks pretty appealing.

 

[99Gold]

My 3rd son wants to fly but I saw the high stat cadets that got cut and that scares the bejesus out of us. He is applying to both but I also noted several schools of his offer R&B add on to AROTC cadets but not AFROTC. He will likely choose AROTC...if he has choice.

Which schools offer R&B to AROTC but not AFROTC? R&B in addition to the ROTC scholarship is a school offering not a ROTC offering and I haven't seen any schools that differentiate between ROTC programs. Just making sure DS and I aren't missing something. He is focusing on schools that offer R&B with a ROTC scholarship.

 

[raag]

With regards to really having to be lacking something to not get field training, that's not what past data always supports - sure there were some who didn't make the standard(s) and were notified/ that was very clear - but, again let's please not minimize what happens here year over year - the impact and choices the Air Force makes here in cutting people who are not clear / were not notified that that something was lacking - had no write-ups, no deficiencies, and yet were shown the door - this is exactly the point. look up Kaili Glasser from MIT - MIT mechanical engineering, near perfect grades, rowed crew (elite athlete), was one of the people initially cut until Kaili went loud/ public, and created a PR nightmare amid the national outcry including to congress - AF unrang the bell and did a take-back of many of the dismissals (all from published articles, not protected data). Look up the students from Cornell/ Yale with 4.0 GPAs and tech majors who again were completely surprised. We share data here/ help folks on their journeys and all AF candidates deserve to know what happens with that branch - they offer "4" year scholarships, then opt out after 2 in some cases - that one year they started with cutting 250 people on scholarship until their mea culpa moonwalk. You can love the Air Force and make it your top choice - but candidates beware - folks too can consider joining a training branch where you know where you stand like Army or Navy.

That's very surprising actually, I'll definitely consider it, but at least for AFROTC you don't have to accept the scholarship until May 31 so I have time to decide. have to wait for 2nd board AROTC anyways.

 

[Ivy22]

With regards to really having to be lacking something to not get field training, that's not what past data always supports - sure there were some who didn't make the standard(s) and were notified/ that was very clear - but, again let's please not minimize what happens here year over year - the impact and choices the Air Force makes here in cutting people who are not clear / were not notified that that something was lacking - had no write-ups, no deficiencies, and yet were shown the door - this is exactly the point. look up Kaili Glasser from MIT - MIT mechanical engineering, near perfect grades, rowed crew (elite athlete), was one of the people initially cut until Kaili went loud/ public, and created a PR nightmare amid the national outcry including to congress - AF unrang the bell and did a take-back of many of the dismissals (all from published articles, not protected data). Look up the students from Cornell/ Yale with 4.0 GPAs and tech majors who again were completely surprised. We share data here/ help folks on their journeys and all AF candidates deserve to know what happens with that branch - they offer "4" year scholarships, then opt out after 2 in some cases - that one year they started with cutting 250 people on scholarship until their mea culpa moonwalk. You can love the Air Force and make it your top choice - but candidates beware - folks too can consider joining a training branch where you know where you stand like Army or Navy.

I remember that year! We definitely heard about several AFROTC cadets at my school getting chopped and then getting an offer to come back after the fallout... However, sometimes the damage is already done, and people are already focused on and excited about another path in life.

 

[gooseblitz]

Which schools offer R&B to AROTC but not AFROTC? R&B in addition to the ROTC scholarship is a school offering not a ROTC offering and I haven't seen any schools that differentiate between ROTC programs. Just making sure DS and I aren't missing something. He is focusing on schools that offer R&B with a ROTC scholarship.

Ole Miss is one that specifically outlined it in their email. I appreciate you reaching out. Sounds like you are a well-rounded young man and someone we would love to have in our program. The University of Mississippi does not provide room and board scholarships to Air Force ROTC cadets. The scholarship which you are referring to is only for Army ROTC cadets on scholarship at Ole Miss. I am not sure what contracts Navy ROTC has here with the university. We receive a couple different set of benefits from Ole Miss. We are given scholarships to pay out of state fees for our cadets. We are also given funds that we distribute to our cadets every semester based upon their performance in the program. The better cadet you are the more money you receive and that money goes straight into your account to use as you please.

 

[pa-outdoorsman]

It's all based on the individual agreement each school has with the unit. For example, there are three schools in the Palmetto Battalion based at The Citadel -- The Citadel, College of Charleston and Charleston Southern University.

Cadets attending The Citadel and Charleston Southern on ROTC scholarship get free room and board from those schools. But College of Charleston does not give free room and board to its Army ROTC scholarship cadets.

Bottom line: check with the ROO at every school you are interested in and make sure you know what additional benefits are or are not provided.

 

[99Gold]

Ole Miss is one that specifically outlined it in their email. I appreciate you reaching out. Sounds like you are a well-rounded young man and someone we would love to have in our program. The University of Mississippi does not provide room and board scholarships to Air Force ROTC cadets. The scholarship which you are referring to is only for Army ROTC cadets on scholarship at Ole Miss. I am not sure what contracts Navy ROTC has here with the university. We receive a couple different set of benefits from Ole Miss. We are given scholarships to pay out of state fees for our cadets. We are also given funds that we distribute to our cadets every semester based upon their performance in the program. The better cadet you are the more money you receive and that money goes straight into your account to use as you please.

Aha. That makes sense. Looks like a specific scholarship. All of the schools my ds is looking at provide R&B to any student on an ROTC scholarship no matter the flavor.

 

[Razrbck]

TCU may be for you! If your looking for help with R&B.

 

[gooseblitz]

TCU may be for you! If your looking for help with R&B.

TCU is at the very top of my DS list!

 

[SandmanSurfer]

We're in the same situation. An earlier post replied to a similar question, stating these ECPs usually turn into national scholarships. We will still do the zoom call with the ECP college to learn more about the process.

We just did the Zoom call with VFMC for the ECP tonight. We really liked it! My daughter will most likely take it and then attend her intended college 2 yrs later where she will still have some ROTC obligations, but will be a 2LT. Check out the VFMC Instagram account. No other ROTC program will have helicopters or CH-47s.

 

[interestinrotc]

We just did the Zoom call with VFMC for the ECP tonight. We really liked it! My daughter will most likely take it and then attend her intended college 2 yrs later where she will still have some ROTC obligations, but will be a 2LT. Check out the VFMC Instagram account. No other ROTC program will have helicopters or CH-47s.

that's awesome!

 

[Troy7824]

1560 SAT, 4.00UW GPA. 13 APs and Varsity XC Team Captain. Boys Nation and Boys State leadership positions. 2,000 volunteer hours, a few jobs, and a lot of community impact, but I think that the AROTC Board values grades, sports, and leadership the most.

Great stats! Are you applying to any service academies? You'd be a great candidate!

 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

I know no one will believe me. I am in shock as well. Last week we had sixteen (16) (one-six) kids at the local high school get 4-year Army ROTC scholarships. Giant checks and a General presenting them. Not all will accept, not all will be DODMERB qualified, but still. I can say no more so don't ask.

 

[RockRooNel]

Has anyone received an email about scheduling their medical appointments yet? My son accepted his 4 year letter on Oct 31 and he has not received word of anything yet. He has also checked his spam folder. We know it can take up to 30 days, but wondering if any other 1st board winners had received anything yet? He also tried to register himself on DodMETS and it won’t allow him to do so yet. We appreciate any insights others may have.