AROTC 3rd Board...Place to Wait

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Yeah, uhm, I didn't mean to imply that you skipped a year, or that he needed to raise his test scores. Just in your DS' case he's missed deadlines and that there's another way. As far as the psyche test? First I've heard of it. Best of luck.
The CBEF, from what i've read is standardized test of the candidates personality, experiences, and general psychological fitness for a leadership position. Depending on what you Google it has several descriptions and interpretations, but it seems to me to be a generalized personality test.
One person asked it my DS had even taken the test, but since he was BOARDED I assume that he has or his Portal would not have reported it.
 
The CBEF, from what i've read is standardized test of the candidates personality, experiences, and general psychological fitness for a leadership position. Depending on what you Google it has several descriptions and interpretations, but it seems to me to be a generalized personality test.
One person asked it my DS had even taken the test, but since he was BOARDED I assume that he has or his Portal would not have reported it.

The thread topic does not state "CBEF" but if you read the thread there are some thoughts on it.
http://www.serviceacademyforums.com...telligence-officer-is-there-an-iq-test.31621/

And this article is also very good.
https://goldenknightbattalion.wordp...r-army-rotc-scholarship-application-the-cbef/

I'd assume they gave a beta test to a bunch a ROTC guys that commissioned and then developed a profile of the "successful cadet".
 
If "I" had looked for this board in the first place, it is unlikely we would have found ourselves in this position. So there is that.
My son was guided by his battalion SAI both into the JROTC and (unknowingly) into the Army rather than the USAFA (which was his original intention). I don't know how to advise this other than "get more opinions".
His AI, the former Drill Sergeant, advised to better his physical fitness score rather than send his application in for the first board... my opinion would be that it is better send in a lower score and improve it (?) on all 3 boards rather than wait and only get two opportunities to be selected.
Put in for the maximum schools allowed... you will likely be chosen for a school SOMEWHERE and you can transfer to the school you want later on. That advice is already here.
Everything else that has happened to us falls under "too bad for you"...
Our decision right now is to wait and see, nobody wants to be in a group that doesn't want them.
Except for those who want to prove to them how wrong they were. Sometime you have to turn what's eating at you into a motivation.
 
The CBEF, from what i've read is standardized test of the candidates personality, experiences, and general psychological fitness for a leadership position.

The CBEF test is worth 250 out of the total 1400 points. To be honest I don't think there are a lot of applicants that fail or score low enought on this test to dramatically change their score.

The reason your son was advised to better his PFT score before completing his application is because once an applicant is Boarded, the applicant is not allowed to update the PFT.

The CBEF was most likely not the reason your son did not receive a scholarship. The Whole Person Score contains three categories. Academics, Leadership, and Athletics, think of it as a three legged stool, if an applicant does not have one of those legs then the stool falls over. Your son had great Academics, the first leg. He had leadership in JROTC, not sure what other leadership he had, JROTC in itself would not be enough. Your son devoted his efforts to JROTC and did not have the school Athletics, that is most likely the leg of the stool that was missing. While his GPA and SAT were terrific, they were only one leg of the stool.

Every year there are applicants that receive a scholarship with a GPA of 3.4 and a SAT of 1100. These applicants were very heavy in Leadership and Athletics, many were Captains of their teams and had multiple Varsity Letters, they are in student government and several leadership positions. The minimums for Academics to achieve that third leg are not that high when an applicant has two other solid legs to back it up.

Not having Athletics also prevents an applicant from getting 100% on the interview scoring which can effect their chances of getting a scholarship as well.

As someone posted earlier, the majority of cadets in ROTC are not on scholarship when the join ROTC. Some will get campus scholarships along the way, some will join the Guard and do SMP, and some will complete ROTC, graduate, and commission into Active Duty having never had a scholarship. These cadets find a way to make it work if their goal is to become an officer in the Army.
 
Except for those who want to prove to them how wrong they were. Sometime you have to turn what's eating at you into a motivation.
The CBEF test is worth 250 out of the total 1400 points. To be honest I don't think there are a lot of applicants that fail or score low enought on this test to dramatically change their score.

The reason your son was advised to better his PFT score before completing his application is because once an applicant is Boarded, the applicant is not allowed to update the PFT.

The CBEF was most likely not the reason your son did not receive a scholarship. The Whole Person Score contains three categories. Academics, Leadership, and Athletics, think of it as a three legged stool, if an applicant does not have one of those legs then the stool falls over. Your son had great Academics, the first leg. He had leadership in JROTC, not sure what other leadership he had, JROTC in itself would not be enough. Your son devoted his efforts to JROTC and did not have the school Athletics, that is most likely the leg of the stool that was missing. While his GPA and SAT were terrific, they were only one leg of the stool.

Every year there are applicants that receive a scholarship with a GPA of 3.4 and a SAT of 1100. These applicants were very heavy in Leadership and Athletics, many were Captains of their teams and had multiple Varsity Letters, they are in student government and several leadership positions. The minimums for Academics to achieve that third leg are not that high when an applicant has two other solid legs to back it up.

Not having Athletics also prevents an applicant from getting 100% on the interview scoring which can effect their chances of getting a scholarship as well.

As someone posted earlier, the majority of cadets in ROTC are not on scholarship when the join ROTC. Some will get campus scholarships along the way, some will join the Guard and do SMP, and some will complete ROTC, graduate, and commission into Active Duty having never had a scholarship. These cadets find a way to make it work if their goal is to become an officer in the Army.
In retrospect, the advice from his SAI that indicated that his athletic achievements within the JROTC program, which should have and do apply at some high schools, did not afford him any points on this application. In order to maximize his points he should have remained a Cpl. rather than taking the responsibilities of a Cadet Officer and joined the football team like the coach begged him to. Even if he road the pine, he would have still gotten his Varsity letter... same for the other sports (that instead of PT every morning from 6AM until school starts) would have made him a lot more 'fit' for command.

Without putting down the accomplishments of any of the other award winners, I don't see how being one of 8 "captains" on the high school football team equate to more leadership ability than being the "captain" of any one of the athletic activities run by our particular schools JROTC. I know not all schools have a JROTC program, but in our smallish community there are 110-115 cadets under my son's command, and only 35 kids on the football team. In any case, I dont question whether anyone that received their scholarship did not earn it, I only question the way the decision is scored. Unless people point out what could be discrepancies like these, they will never change, and the military might be losing some of their best leaders because they cant see the trees through the forest. I get the whole 3-legged stool thing, but two strong legs can hold up more than 3 weak legs, they just need to lean on something.
 
Unless people point out what could be discrepancies like these, they will never change, and the military might be losing some of their best leaders because they cant see the trees through the forest.

The point is, the Military does not give up on or lose these leaders. This first process has nothing to do with being a good officer or leader, it only has to do with paying for college. The two don't go together.

Every year there are 4 year scholarship winners that don't make it through the first year, these include cadets that had Academics off the charts in high school, All State Athletes, and Class Presidents. In contrast there are cadets that came into the program with no scholarships, worked their rear ends off, some were given scholarship, some were not, these cadets commission and become those great leaders.

Just because a cadet received a scholarship or feels they should have has very little to do with what kind of a leader they will become.

Your right, if an applicant has nothing else but being a Captain of their football team, they would not receive a scholarship either. A balanced application will offer the best chance at a scholarship in any ROTC program as well as any Academy.
 
Heck, my son's NROTC unit class started their freshman orientation with 45 potential midshipmen. By the end of orientation week, before the academic year began, 10 of them were gone and at least 2 of them were on scholarship. As they approach commissioning next month they are down to 17. Some of those 17 are still not on scholarship. As Jcleppe points, out getting a scholarship is no indicator of future success, nor is lack of a scholarship an indication of future failure.
 
Not trying to stir up a storm, but if he was boarded, the only one that controlled his scholarship chances were him. ROTC scholarships are increasingly harder to come by from the national board, and the scholarship itself is simply an incentive for recruiting top prospects (not top cadets, not top officers, not the best leaders, just prospects). Having the scholarship weighs absolutely 0 points in any leadership evaluation I received as a cadet and has not even come up in conversation since I commissioned.

The scholarship should not be the deciding factor for a candidate in whether or not to pursue a commission.
 
Luckily you don't want to stir up a storm. I cant imagine how crude and insulting you could be if you tried.
I wasn't going to take the time to respond after having so many nice and intelligent people here help us through this, but candidates like you are the reason I personally am not in favor of my son accepting a commission, he might have to follow orders from people like I perceive you to be.

Thank you again to everyone that has provided positive feedback in our time of grief... I hope that many of you become the leaders that I wish our country had right now.
We need to focus on our "Plan B" now, and reading this board right now is a distraction that I don't have time for. Maybe I will see some of you here next year!
 
Luckily you don't want to stir up a storm. I cant imagine how crude and insulting you could be if you tried.
I wasn't going to take the time to respond after having so many nice and intelligent people here help us through this, but candidates like you are the reason I personally am not in favor of my son accepting a commission, he might have to follow orders from people like I perceive you to be.

Please enlighten us on how the Lieutenant was crude and insulting.

He is 100% correct and was polite in his response. Scholarships are a recruiting tool, nobody but the applicant controls what is in their application, and a scholarship is worth nothing on the cadets OML.

I understand your upset, I don't understand the bitterness.

Just so you understand, your son would not be accepting a commission, he would need to earn it, and that takes a lot more then getting a scholarship.
 
Please enlighten us on how the Lieutenant was crude and insulting.

He is 100% correct and was polite in his response. Scholarships are a recruiting tool, nobody but the applicant controls what is in their application, and a scholarship is worth nothing on the cadets OML.

I understand your upset, I don't understand the bitterness.

Just so you understand, your son would not be accepting a commission, he would need to earn it, and that takes a lot more then getting a scholarship.
I apologize, you are correct. Upon reading this after a short sleep, I have NO idea what I was thinking. If I can't delete that post I am asking the moderator to do so, now.
 
I do not see a delete button on my tiny screen, can some mod please do as I am asking?
 
You don't have to delete it, I'm an adult (and haven't been a candidate in atleast 5 years), you're not going to hurt my feelings on this topic.

I'll be honest, if this step is tripping up you and your son deciding if this career field is right, it's probably not.

In another thread you posted how your son was still searching for someone else to pay for his education, and have blamed his lack of receiving a scholarship on his SAI and others, despite only his qualifications being what he was judged on. Nobody said this was going to be easy, but nobody is responsible for his successes and failures more than him. He applied and was boarded, that automatically throws out anyone else's culpability for why he didn't receive a scholarship. It's time for him to accept that, despite what anyone may have told him, and drive on. This will be, by far, the easiest obstacle he will have to come should he actually make it into ROTC.

You may think anything posted that doesn't flat out say how much your son should have received a scholarship and how it was someone else's fault is crude, but the truth sucks sometimes. It really does. I can't help him deal with that, but if he makes it to ROTC and eventually to commissioning, nobody is going to care if he doesn't like that.
 
You don't have to delete it, I'm an adult (and haven't been a candidate in atleast 5 years), you're not going to hurt my feelings on this topic.

I'll be honest, if this step is tripping up you and your son deciding if this career field is right, it's probably not.

In another thread you posted how your son was still searching for someone else to pay for his education, and have blamed his lack of receiving a scholarship on his SAI and others, despite only his qualifications being what he was judged on. Nobody said this was going to be easy, but nobody is responsible for his successes and failures more than him. He applied and was boarded, that automatically throws out anyone else's culpability for why he didn't receive a scholarship. It's time for him to accept that, despite what anyone may have told him, and drive on. This will be, by far, the easiest obstacle he will have to come should he actually make it into ROTC.

You may think anything posted that doesn't flat out say how much your son should have received a scholarship and how it was someone else's fault is crude, but the truth sucks sometimes. It really does. I can't help him deal with that, but if he makes it to ROTC and eventually to commissioning, nobody is going to care if he doesn't like that.
I tried to let this go and move on, but you just won't let it go. Is that what you mean by sticking with it?... Just keep kicking someone when they are down?
I read your earliest post, and followed your career online. You we're one of those applicants with less than stellar academics that wasn't sure whether he could make the cut with nothing but a few leadership scores and moderate leadership history. You wanted to be an officer, but didn't know if they wanted you. Congratulations, and I admit you have matured and become a confident young man with what appears to be a successful career.
My son isn't like you, he has achieved most every goal he set for himself. He is extremely bright and confident in the skills he has trained for. His goal was not only to become an officer, but to get his masters degree in civil engineering from USC and lead a unit of the Army Corp of Engineers. You were just hoping to be an Officer some day. He met every milestone, and all of his teachers, mentors, and commanders told him he should succeed. His peers were rooting for him as he represents them as the best and brightest of their class. People here like you assume that since he didn't receive the scholarship and is disappointed, that he has nowhere else to turn. Lol. He has already been accepted to USC and can pick and choose what career he wants to study, the US government wants him even if the Army doesn't want to pay for his education. I am proud of what he has accomplish and am simply trying to find out if there is something he could have done better, not blaming any one else or saying it's some else's fault. You 'assumed' that from your experience having likely not met many other special or peer highlighted goals. Congratulations staying on your limited track... I can see why you make assumptions about others in that respect, it's something you can appear successful at so you flaunt your luck and perseverance over hard work as the best way to get a free ride.
 
OK People. Please cease and desist the personal attacks and insults. There is no need for it here, where folks seem to be trying to state facts and provide people with another way to look at things. This thread has been too useful to delete it, and I really don't want to edit it and remove posts, but I will if that is necessary.
 
Personally, I do agree with @WAYNE . I do understand that the ROTC scholarship is a recruiting tool to pull out the most qualified across the board. However, we were also lead to believe by our Junior AFROTC program that involvement in the program would help with an ROTC scholarship. My daughter has also participated 200% in her Junior AF ROTC program for the past four years and rose to be commander as well of 115 cadets. This is an amazing accomplishment for her. Junior AF ROTC is much more than just an extracurricular activity in our minds (and as we've seen personally) and is very demanding. However, we have found that JROTC doesn't equate to even be considered in your GPA for the Hope Scholarship (Georgia) or at University of North Georgia for your GPA. So for those moving forward in High School, just take these notes into consideration and do what is best for you and your personal file academically, extracurricular wise and athletically as you plan.

While I understand what is being said here, I am also saddened that dd's role in the JROTC program may have not been considered when being selected for an ROTC scholarship. She met and exceeded all expectations for such a scholarship, was captain of her JV volleyball team for two years, lettered Varsity in wrestling for two years. Was dual-enrolled, has taken rigor courses, had high ACT and SAT scores as well as an awesome GPA. She was simply put a 'whole package'. I understand that there are those that were more qualified and won a scholarship, it's a highly competitive program and rightfully so, the best should be winners. I do think that the leadership roles should be considered however with a JROTC program and it seems that it would be considered for an ROTC scholarship when you think logically.

I'm not complaining, and we are not crushed by the news as the ROTC scholarship would have been a wonderful ace in the hole for anyone! Dd is still in 'boarded' status with AROTC scholarship, we obviously assume we will receive a letter in the mail that she was not chosen and it's the end of the road in this regard. Luckily, she is still in the game at USMA as due to the strength of her file, as she is being supported by the athletic department for prep and we are still waiting to hear any news one way or another. For her to have made it this far in the game in the ROTC scholarship process as well as still being considered for USMA is an achievement in itself and something she is proud of. In any case, she knows for a fact she will commission as an Army officer and will take whichever path presents itself the best to achieve that goal with plans A, B or C as they come down the pipe in the next few weeks.

I just wanted to chime in that I do understand both sides, but do wish that the leadership roles these students have worked so hard in were considered and given points towards the ROTC scholarship. It's sad that the further we've gone in the process, the more we have realized that participation in any given JROTC program may not affect your file as you move forward into a military career via scholarship wise or Academy wise - it's simply not necessary as it seems other leadership roles appear to have more weight than JROTC.

Congrats to all of the winners, I am so happy to see that we will have some great young folks up and coming!
 
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Wayne, there is no benefit whatsoever to your son by belittling a commissioned officer. Having been offered admission into USC and UCLA, he obviously has a lot on the ball. Whatever great future is in store, at this point he has yet to graduate from high school.

This is one of the most helpful forums available for people seeking insight into service academies and the various branches of ROTC. I can say without fear of contradiction that Bull has been a valuable contributor to it.

It's unfortunate you came to SAF only recently, but that can't be helped now. However, if your son is intent on pursuing an officer's commission after beginning college, SAF can be a great resource in the future. Don't burn your bridges.
 
OK. If anyone has further comments on the ROTC Scholarship process and how it works with respect to JROTC should create a new thread for that. This was not the topic for the current thread. Future posts along these lines on this thread will be deleted.
 
As an infamous public figure once said..."Can't we all get just along"? LoL. My DS is/was highly qualified with a plethora of credentials, we sought and absorbed the sage advice of the good people on this forum for over a year, met with current/former officers, good ol' dad (me) did my best as a former US Army SGT. to guide my DS, I queried parents and cadets alike via PM, my DS nearly max'd-out the PFT, we flew him to almost every SMC and private college(s) for interviews, NLC weekends, overnight visits with cadets, heck, I left no stone un-turned to make sure he had all available information to be secure an award. He even had letters of rec. from Rear Admirals and in the end did not receive a scholarship. With all due respect Wayne, as much as my son is an incredible young man, we remain humble and grounded as this experience does not indicate a set-back or "put my son down"...quite the opposite. He knows that there are many highly qualified young men and women that have outstanding credentials. He also has a "fire in his belly" and will continue to better himself so he can secure that contract if not a partial scholarship as the months/years unfold. I love the kid to death but I do not expect others to feel the same way. We're all strangers on here and we handle set-backs differently. Further, the group on this forum is here to help and even more so.....with no expectations of gratitude. From a straight "read", your posts feel heavy with hubris coupled with frustration. Fight the urge to view this set-back as a personal affront to your DS and again, we're all strangers. No one here knows you or your son. This can be a "tough love" environment but I'd rather have it straight so my DS can move forward with possible corrective measures. God speed and again.."can't we all just get along". If you're from Los Angeles as am I, I am sure you know the reference all too well :)
 
Whoops..sorry Kinnem....I was writing the above before you posted.
 
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