CGA opposes changes to admissions system

My problem with the whole thing is that there are long and established MOC guidelines (not rules, God forbid) about nominations for the other Service Academies. NONE of these guidelines indicate a requirement/focus/desire to ensure racial diversity. But now with COAST GUARD, whoaaaaaa, the MOC's will ensure racial diversity. How? I don't know. Theoretically they will all communicate with each other to ensure a balance. They would have to. But of course that will never happen.
Now, if you said that the USCGA is funded by the taxpayer and the Nomination system ensures taxpayers from around the country are equally represented, well, I'd kick my toe in the dirt and say, sounds about right.
The punchline is, this gives more power to Congress to more or less hand out scholarships. And for COAST GUARD, it will be a different system than the other Service Academies, since, in THIS case, Congress is to ensure Racial Diversity. Sounds like the US Public Service Academy.
The logic doesn't work. There is no system in place for it to work. Coast Guard has more racial Diversity programs out there- for its size -than any other service, but still not enough.
Shame. Seems like the expanding Government program is found everywhere.
 
My problem with the whole thing is that there are long and established MOC guidelines (not rules, God forbid) about nominations for the other Service Academies. NONE of these guidelines indicate a requirement/focus/desire to ensure racial diversity. But now with COAST GUARD, whoaaaaaa, the MOC's will ensure racial diversity. How?

Ha, how? Because Rep. Cummins says so....and that's it.
 
So I decided I'd go look at data about diversity in the military. The latest data readily available for the other services is for FY2007 on DefenseLink:

http://prhome.defense.gov/PopRep2007/contents/contents.html

Bottom Line for Commissioned Officers

Army: White= 74.3%; Black = 11.47%; Asian=4.87%; Hispanic=5.37%; Other's including AIAN = 3.99%

Navy: White = 80.65%; Black = 7.05%; Asian 4.22%; Hispanic = 5.96%; Others including AIAN = 2.12%

USMC: White=81.33%; Black=3.63%; Asian=3.27%; Hispanic=6.28%; Others including AIAN=$5.49%

USAF: White=71.21%; Black=7.75%; Asian=4.67%; Hispanic=2.0%; Others including"Unknown" & AIAN=14.37% (unclear why so many in the USAF fail to self identify)

USCG: White: 74.95%; Black=3.23%; AIAN=1.22%; Hispanic=6.81% ; Asian = 0.61%; Other, e.g. "2 or More, Unknown etc."): 13.19%.

Interestingly based on GFY2007 both the USMC & USN are indeed less diverse than the Army, Air Force and Coast Guard, however all services have a less diverse officer corps than enlisted force. I don't think anyone here is saying that making affirmative action so the officer corps is at least as diverse as a services enlisted force reduces the unit effectiveness. For example I wouldn't think that having a more racially diverse USCG would in any way make it more or less likely I'd be rescued if I was on a fishing vessel foundering in the Bearing Sea. In fact I'd say I would be more likely to be rescued by a well equipped and trained USCG, and the money to do that comes from the US Congress based on a budget proposed to, reviewed and approved by a Committee currently chaired by Rep. Cummings.

So the oversight that some seem to have issues with already exists and is in fact part and parcel to the principles and constitution the people on this form or their DS/DD have or will swear to protect and uphold.

I'd hazard a guess that if Rep Cummings sat on a committee that had oversight of the USN and USMC budgets he'd be saying the same thing and they'd be looking for ways to respond and get their numbers more quickly in line with their Army and Air Force brethren.

I'm a while male and a conservative but even I understand that affirmative action/diversity/ etc. is something that does not detract from an organizations ability to perform, it enhances it.
 
......even I understand that affirmative action/diversity/ etc. is something that does not detract from an organizations ability to perform, it enhances it.

I don't think anyone is questioning that.

What is being questioned is how diversity is achieved - is it through geographic quotas (nominations) or an increase in qualified applicants from URM areas?

Just because a nomination is required does not insure qualified candidates will apply. Take the districts of Rep. Charles Rangel (NY-15) and Rep. Nydia Velazquez (NY-12) - over the last FOUR YEARS, Congresswoman Velazquez has nominated exactly FOUR candidates, and Congressman Rangel has nominated exactly EIGHT candidates (this is over a FOUR YEAR PERIOD FOR ALL ACADEMIES TOTAL!!) despite both of their districts being overwhelmingly minority.

More proof that a nomination system does not ensure the racial diversity sought by Congressman Cummings.
 
I would also not lump "affirmative action" in with diversity to determine what's good for an organization. Is diversity good? Yep, absolutely! Is affirmative action? I'm less inclined to agree with that.
 
**** WARNING NOT POLITICALLY CORRECT ****

Don't slam me.. you have been warned

Okay so this question is not PC, but is it possible that people of color CHOOSE not to go to the Academies, just because they do not want to... (after all sometimes things really are that simple)
 
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I am not slamming you - you could have a very valid point-
but is it possible that people of color CHOOSE not to go to the Academies, just because they do not want to... (after all sometimes things really are that simple)
this is actually a very familiar question. It was asked many times 30 years ago before and when the academies opened their doors to women.
A very commonly held belief was "Why should we go through all this trouble to let girls in because they won't want to go anyway".

In all seriousness - you could be right. But then we should be asking "Why don't people of color CHOOSE to come to a service academy?
Are they less patriotic than white students? Are they afraid they might feel "uncomfortable" or will be treated badly because of their race and they have better options?
Are we being lured into thinking that people of color won't find a service academy and attractive option, when the reality is they simply don't know of the opportunity?
 
My daughters graduating class had 130 kids... Of those 130 kids only two kids chose a SA, (both were accepted to via the prep school route), approx. 6 went the ROTC route, about a dozen decided they had enough education and went directly into the military (not a less Patriotic route, but they did not want to go to college), some others went the college route (either with scholarships or not) and others decided to go directly to work force. These were choices that the kids made...

Whether society chooses goals for kids or not, sometimes it is really as easy as it is just something they don't want to do.

Example... I've been involved in both Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts in our small community for years, the level of diversity is much higher in Girl Scouts then Boy Scouts. I am not sure why this is, as we always are there to recruit kids at school events, but the joy of camping just really doesnt apply to as many boys of color, but crafts for girl scouts go across the lines of ethnicity. Whether it is the parents choosing or the kids, diveristy is sometimes not as easy as we'd like it, because people choose to be involved or not.

***** I am just going off of my experience in my community, so it could be different in yours.

P.S. The two kids that chose the SA route are both females and of color and both attended the USCGA AIM program in their JR year) (note one of the girls had just PCS'ed with her family from MD at the beginning of Senior year). In the end, one went then CGA and the other went the USNA.

Both their fathers were prior military, with a strong military family background. Maybe that has more to do with it then anything else, as both these young ladies understand the honor, difficulty and expectations of attending a SA .... AND they both are over achievers?!?! :biggrin:
 
Only 47 black candidates (out of 1,672 total candidates) applied for an appointment to the USCGA Class of 2013.
 
Sounds like Congressmen should reach out to their local school systems (specifically high school).
 
Very interesting article in the Navy Times:
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2009/11/ap_blacks_in_cg_school_112409/

Eight years after the Coast Guard and the NAACP signed a voluntary agreement to work together to boost the number of African-Americans at its 1,000-cadet service academy, the annual enrollment and graduation figures for blacks remain in single digits.Seven blacks graduated from the academy based in New London, Conn., in the spring of 2001, the year the agreement was signed.
The same number graduated from the Class of 2006, the first class for which blacks were recruited under the agreement.
Subsequently, there were seven black graduates in 2007, five in 2008 and four in 2009.
That makes 23 graduates in four years under the agreement, including the academy’s first black female valedictorian. In the four previous years, the number was 33.
Leading lawmakers have grown increasingly upset with results even as they repeatedly are told the Guard is working hard to improve diversity in a service where only 311 of its 6,787 commissioned officers are black, with only one black admiral.
“The Coast Guard has just not paid attention to it. It is not antipathy or animosity toward it,” said Rep. James Oberstar, D-Minn., chairman of the House Transportation Committee. “I think we’re moving in the right direction and got the Coast Guard’s attention and we’re not going to let up.”
Under a House bill, sponsored by Oberstar and Rep. Elijah Cummings, D-Md., the Coast Guard subcommittee chairman, members of Congress would nominate candidates for the academy. All the other service academies have long used congressional nominations.
On a 385-11 vote last month, the House advanced the legislation to the Senate.
The Coast Guard Academy historically has taken pride in viewing itself merit-based and choosing its applicants without regard to their geographical distribution among the states.
Cummings, a member of the Congressional Black Caucus, expects black enrollment to grow with congressional involvement, at least in part because the House typically has about 40 black lawmakers who would be effective recruiters in largely black congressional districts.
The Coast Guard’s position on the bill has been rather subdued.
The academy’s superintendent, Rear Adm. J. Scott Burhoe, likes the existing “merit-based system,” but would be “fine” if Congress adopted congressional nominations.
“I think for us part of our fear is the unknown, really, right now,” he said in an interview with The Associated Press.
The Coast Guard Academy graduated its first black officer in 1966. In the 43 years since, only about 2 percent of the academy’s graduates have been black and only once has there been as many as 10 in a single year.
Two years ago, the academy drew national attention when a noose was found among a black cadet’s personal effects on a Coast Guard vessel. That was followed with the appearance of a noose for a white officer who was conducting race relations training at the academy.
Cummings said at the time that the Coast Guard must redouble its efforts in the face of a clear attempt to threaten and intimidate efforts to increase diversity.
An investigation involving 50 federal agents including the FBI produced no arrests or motives.
At present, the academy reports it has 136 minorities, with 72 Hispanics, 39 Asians and 25 African-Americans.
The Coast Guard, when asked by The Associated Press how many African-Americans were admitted to its academy as a result of the NAACP memorandum of agreement, said, through spokeswoman Nadine Santiago, that there was no way to know.
Lawmakers lashed out at the Coast Guard at a hearing last June for admitting so few blacks for the 2013 class only months after a previous hearing and discussion about the need to provide for congressional nominations.
“I am shocked that you only have five African Americans entering the class of 2013 and that you only offered two African American students appointments that were coming directly from high school that did not need additional preparation from a preparatory school,” Oberstar said. “The Naval Academy found 149 fully qualified African-Americans to attend their Academy.”
The U.S. Naval Academy, in Annapolis, Md., accepted 1,328 as cadets for its Class of 2013. For that class, 327 African-Americans applied, with 138 of the 149 blacks deemed fully qualified accepting offers of admission.
The Coast Guard, for its own 2013 Class, offered admission to 411 of 1,672 applicants, with 290 accepting offers. Only 47 blacks had applied, with seven being offered admission and five accepting. At the same time, 26 Hispanics and five Asian-Americans accepted admission.
“We are able to attract the cream of the crop, but more importantly, the Coast Guard has the ability to select applicants which meet its demands,” Rep. Howard Coble, R-N.C., a Coast Guard veteran, said of the current admissions system “This could continue with a direct nomination process, but it injects a component that removes the academy from the equation.”
The Coast Guard must graduate 70 percent of its cadets in science, math and technological fields. For the 2013 Class, the average SAT math and verbal scores totaled 1240, with the average GPA a 3.8, and half of the students were in the top 10 percent of their high school class.
Cadet First Class Jacqueline Fitch, 21, Catonsville, Md., who recently became the academy’s first black woman to be named a regimental commander, also wonders about making a change to congressional nominations.
“I know when I applied for the Coast Guard Academy one of the things that made me really proud is that I got into the academy off of my own merit,” she said, explaining she was initially rejected and first had to go prep school. “I had to work really hard to get to the academy.”
Hilary Shelton, the NAACP’s senior vice president for advocacy and policy, said the Coast Guard asked to enter into their nonbinding memorandum of agreement in 2001 after the Coast Guard recognized its record in recruiting blacks was dismal. Eight years later, he acknowledged that the current black enrollment figures are “sad and unfortunate.”
He was unsure about the use of congressional nominations as a solution. He said adding another step in the selection process could be “stifling” for recruitment.
“I am convinced that we probably need to do a thorough assessment of what we’ve done thus far and find ways of actually making it more robust,” he added. “You need to work with community-based organizations like the NAACP to make sure that this great opportunity is there for them and indeed they can be successful.”
 
Sounds like the NAACP needs to work more closely with high schools to get qualified minorities to enter into application process for various service academies. I certainly personally agree with that last line in the article.
 
Sounds like the NAACP needs to work more closely with high schools to get qualified minorities to enter into application process for various service academies. I certainly personally agree with that last line in the article.

So they chose info on the two water Academies, what are the numbers for the USAFA and the USMA ?

again is it possible that those of color just dont want to be in the naval (water based) services?
 
“The Naval Academy found 149 fully qualified African-Americans to attend their Academy.”
^^^
There has been quite a bit of discussion about how "fully" qualified those students were.
 
“The Naval Academy found 149 fully qualified African-Americans to attend their Academy.”
^^^
There has been quite a bit of discussion about how "fully" qualified those students were.

I know you'll jump back but that's basically a relatively bigotted statement and exactly the kind of discussion that folks like Rep Cummings would point to as to why Congress should be involved in the nomination process.

Also Luigi - you choice to focus on Rangel and Velazquez numbers is interesting and while I agree with you, it does fail to acknowledge the other 38 members of the Congressional Black Caucus and their numbers. I've heard for example that anecdotally Cummings uses his nominations and his staffers have also worked with UMBC recruiters, etc to get more minorities into math and science career paths in general as well. I also know that in the case of USMMA, while Eleneor Holmes-Norton has worked hard to do so over the past 4 years we've had only two members of the entering classes at KP from DC and only one was a minority. That said another point of view could be put forth that if only 50% of the Black Caucus was succesful in recruiting and nominating qualified Black for enry into a class at USCGA that would basically easily double the number that has been seen since the 2001 agreement with the NAACP.

I've said it before so I'll say it again, this is probably inevitable given the current Congressional leanings and the record over the past years, I don't have a dog in this fight but if I did rather than fighting it I would be embracing it and working to make sure the process was "right sized" and geared for the USCGA and didn't cause any undue compromise of standards, I held most dear.
 
And I would maintain adding that extra "cog" in the mechanics of the application process only reduces the ability of ALL members of the country to compete. I'm not saying that is makes it more competitive, I'm saying it makes it less.
 
I know you'll jump back
Not sure what that means.

but that's basically a relatively bigotted statement
That there has been quite a bit of discussion on this subject is now considered "a relatively bigotted statement"? It is now PC incorrect to mention that there has been a discussion on a subject? Thanks for your insight. :thumbdown:
 
Also Luigi - you choice to focus on Rangel and Velazquez numbers is interesting and while I agree with you, it does fail to acknowledge the other 38 members of the Congressional Black Caucus and their numbers.

They are mentioned because they rank #1 and #2 on the fewest nomination given list.
 
You can talk diversity till you're blue in the face.
Reality check is to walk into any normal high school and check out who is taking the higher level math, science and english classes (it's the kids on this board).
In many parts of the country females are the majority, males the minority and even fewer 'minorities,' in classes like AP English, History, Math and Science.
Problem today is to get ANY high school student motivated to both serve in the military and take the tough courses, many just want to skate through high school.
The motivating factor for any child to seek success is ultimately family, friends and mentors. Period. IMHO the nomination process only serves as another group making face to face contact with a candidate.
This board reflects those who desire to succeed and serve. :thumb:
 
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