Change of Camo

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by StowieJ, Feb 5, 2015.

  1. StowieJ

    StowieJ Member

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    I've recently been reading about the future change in the ACU. Talking to a few people over PMs, both current cadets and parents of cadets I've noticed that there is a huge gap between what people think they know, and what is in all actuality fact.

    So I have 3 questions:

    1: The wikipedia page on the new camo says that they're going to start pushing out the new designs during summer of 2015. Will this mean that there will be a complete change, one day its the currwnt design, next day it's multicam? Or do they slowly phase it in?

    2: How long does it take for this to get passed into ROTC? Someone used the analogy: "little brother gets all the hand-me-downs, and they get it last." Is that gping to be the case, and if so when does that typically get rolled down to cadets? I know it took a while to make the change from the Green SUs to the SD Blues, is that because of the same issue?

    3: What does this mean for current and prospective cadets? Does this mean that there is most likely going to be a change in most of the regulations? I noticed the mild change in the hair and tattoo policy, so is that really just a stage of this uniform change? And is there any hope of a relaxation/reworking of the boot policy?

    All I have been able to find online were old articles/blog posts from about 6 months to a year ago. Wondering if anyone knows anything that could help me make sense of it.

    As always, thanks in advance. I want to appologize again for my behavior in the other thread. I see now that I was out of line, and I want to work towards rebuilding my image.

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    Last edited: Feb 5, 2015
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  2. USMCGrunt

    USMCGrunt Member

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    StowieJ: I appreciate your interest but what does it matter?

    I can assure you that if you ever end up in the military, the only constant will be change. Uniforms, uniform regulations, grooming and tattoo standards, boots, gear, etc could all change (and sometimes come full circle). Consider this a fact of life.

    I can't speak for the Army, but in the Marines most of these uniform and grooming changes were effective on a certain date and there were no exceptions. There were a few changes that were phased in but not too many. For instance, during my active duty years the Marines changed to a new camouflage uniform (pattern and material). An effective date was given and from that point forward the old uniform was not permitted. What you may not have thought about is that the enlisted men were issued 2 sets (or more - I forget) while the officers had to purchase theirs at "cash sales." When I commissioned, the Marines had a white uniform similar to the Navy's. Along the way, this was discontinued and no longer required. The tattoo policy changes every few years. My security unit was still carrying .45's long after the fleet had gone to the 9mm Baretta. In fact our helmet was the old steel pot rather than kevlar and our vests were filled with ceramic plates. So some changes are universal and effective on a specific date. Others roll through the massive military complex taking a while to filter to all the various units. Note my experience is 30+ years old so things may have changed - but I kind of doubt it.

    I see nothing wrong with ROTC units being at the tail end of uniform and equipment changes.
     
  3. StowieJ

    StowieJ Member

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    I don't see anything wrong with it either. It's just a topic that's interesting me at the moment... (for the last month or so.)

    I've also read that the SMCs, (vmi etc) are allowed to implement theur own uniform and dress standards.

    How many changes in uniform did you undergo in the service? I'd imagine the situation is similar for most of them.

    I was just talking to cadets and there parents and none of them could really answer so I wanted to open it up to anyone that might know.

    Even 30+ year old experience is valid experience, some things are timeless.

    In all honesty, in my free time I've been looking at ACU bags, just for hiking use, (I love to hike and a bag designed for rugged use seems like a good idea, I hate replacing my bags.) So it only came to mind that a bag that is authorized for service at the moment, will probably not be at the time I would even have the chance to make it in.

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  4. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I am with USMC, not sure why it matters. Not trying to be antagonistic, just trying to understand where you are coming from in your post.
    ~ FWIW, wikepedia as a source?

    Whatever they decide to do or not do is going to happen. Just go with it.

    Bullet was ADAF for twenty years. His flight suit changed at least 3 or 4 times. Service Blues also changed 2 times. For the blues they allowed years before it was mandatory to buy the new ones. Funny thing is before the phased out the very old blues, they came in and changed the new blues before settling on the current blues.
    ~ Iows, between his two uniforms they changed quite frequently.
    ~~ Our DS is also a rated AF officer (O2). Commissioned 4 years after Bullet retired. Leather flight boots were no longer issued.

    Finally, if I am correct this might be a moot point for the majority of AROTC cadets they are no longer issuing uniforms to non contracted cadets. Someone will surely correct me if I am incorrect....just me remembering somewhere in the bowls of this forum that has occurred this year.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2015
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  5. StowieJ

    StowieJ Member

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    Well, part of my impression of a military lifestyle is the uniformity. I've never had to wear any form of uniform in my life, so I might be just trying to grasp the concept.

    On the note of wikipedia, I use wikipedia every day. I use it in school, (not as an academic source,) and I think it serves it's purpose.

    I've just never come across a proper answer to those three questions, and it's been a bit of a brain itch. It might be irrelavent, but from my standpoint it's the equivalent of asking a question about chain of command. Just a part of the lifestyle I'm really curious about. I would ask these questions to my family members that serve(d), but the only military man I've known was my cousins ex-husband, with whom I have never spoken. I've turned here as a last resort before giving up the search.

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  6. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    ROTC won't see the new ACU's for a while, how long nobody really knows. Knowing the Army, by the time ROTC battalions are set to get the new uniforms they may change them again. As far as gear goes, you'll be surprised at the different styles you'll see in ROTC, to say they get the leftovers is an understatement.

    The ASU's made a pretty quick change in ROTC.

    Curious, what boot regulation are you hoping will change.

    I'm not sure I would consider the Tattoo regulation changes as mild, they have had a pretty big effect on recruitment as well as upward promotion from enlisted to commissioned.

    ROTC battalions have different standards for what type of backpack can be worn if at all while in uniform. Don't worry about what type of back pack will be authorized to wear in the future, just get what ever you want. Once you commission and go to BOLC they'll either tell you what to use or issue you one. By the time you graduate you'll probably need a new one anyway.

    ROTC cadets used to all wear their ACU's on Lab Day (Once a week). Now they are starting to shift to wearing Class B's, no doubt it will change again.

    I agree, Wikipedia can be a great resource, I use it a lot, it's a good idea to verify with other sources but it's a good first stop. Honestly, I think if Wikipedia ever went down there would be a temporary moment of panic on every college campus.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2015
  7. QA1517

    QA1517 Member

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    Don't confuse the SMC's corps of cadets with ROTC. ROTC is a separate program no matter what school you go to.

    DS is at a junior military college, he is doing SMP with a guard unit so he has been issued guard gear. Some of his gear he can use in his ROTC unit some of it he cannot as the unit wants everyone to be on the same level as in you use what the ROTC unit issues you. His guard unit is switching to the new camo pattern, his ROTC unit is not, so he will have 2 sets of everything. When he commissions in May he might get assigned to a different guard unit that has not switched over yet so he will heave to keep all his old camo pattern just in case.

    I don't believe any one knows a time frame of the pattern switch over except the big army, and it's liable to change.
     
  8. StowieJ

    StowieJ Member

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    Right, I'm sure all the people who couldn't have been promoted to a higher grade will now be able to. I just didn't know what the old ones were, I've only ever heard about the fact that they do allow more. A PMS walked me through the current status, when I brought up a comment about the tatoo parlor across the street from the ROTC building.

    About boots though, I was just looking at a pair of warior leather boots that had been banned, and in the air force were mentioning that it was great for their wide feet. Just something that struck a nerve of curiosity.

    I get what you're saying about the backpacks, but I just think it would be nice to have one that I could use for a while. (I see that's not very probable, with the constant changes to uniforms.)

    I trust that they will take care of their cadets, but then again we live in a consumer society, and a lot of this gear looks really cool. As a hiker and an outdoorsy guy, the more utility I can get from my gear, the better.

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  9. USMCGrunt

    USMCGrunt Member

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    Look at it a different way... go retro.

    Rather than trying to get the latest desert camo digital pattern or latest issued gear (which will be pricey) pick up some gear via mail order or Army/ Navy store that is no longer current.

    Forget the desert back pack with internal frame. Go with the ALICE pack, exterior frame, jungle camo pattern. Just the right size for outdoors/ camping.

    Good luck
     
  10. Aero

    Aero Member

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    Definitely hand-me-downs. 100% of the gear my battalion issues cadets is still BDU pattern. Only thing ACU is our uniforms. Who knows when it comes to whenever multicam is passed down or even the new PT uniforms.
     
  11. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Not sure I understand this statement, are you referring to the tattoo policy.

    In regard to boots, keep looking, there are plenty of after market boots that are allowed, I'm sure you'll be able to find one that works and is authorized. Don't buy any right away, wait until you know where your attending school and what ROTC battalion you join. Talk with the cadre or current cadets to make sure you purchase what your allowed to wear.
     
  12. StowieJ

    StowieJ Member

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    You know any online retailers that sell that kind of stuff? As you may or may not know I live overseas, so unless it has the option to ship internationally it has no use at this point in time :(

    They don't sell any camo stuff here. It's not really an acceptable thing to wear casually, and because of that you can't find it locally.

    I'll do a quick google search in the morning. See what I can find, which could be shipped out here.

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  13. StowieJ

    StowieJ Member

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    I keep hearing that suggestion. I think what you're saying holds true for almost everything, wait and see as opposed to being impulsive. There was one pair that I was recommended by another poster, but it turns out those boots are now illegal (synthetic leather upper.)

    And yeah. Sorry, I was referring to the tattoo policy. I was agreeing with your point.

    I feel like the military life is just as much about waiting, and just hoping someone will give you an instruction, as it is about anything else. Definitely a weird concept for me. Ive been brainwashed as a consumer who has to get things right when they come out.

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  14. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    The reason Wikipedia is not used as a source is in part due to the fact the system regarding posting information. It serves a purpose to inform, but I would use other sites for verification.

    Again why does it matter? Think about why I am asking why does it matter? Is it to understand what you will be experiencing in the future?
     
  15. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Just to be clear on what I was saying about the new tattoo policy. With the new change enlisted soldiers that do not meet the new tattoo regulations are no longer allowed to commission as an officer, if they are currently enlisted they are grandfathered and can remain enlisted. This is what I was referring to when I mentioned promotion.
     
  16. StowieJ

    StowieJ Member

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    I think you hit the nail on the head there about why I think it matters. I'm interested in what the future holds plus what kind of things I can expect, and I'm curious about what I could buy for other purposes that would be usable in the program. The answer I'm getting from everyone is "expect nothing to be usable, unless the cadre explicitly tell you, at school, that you can use it." So I'm not going to invest any some (small or large) into equipment that I hope to use for ROTC.

    About wikipedia, I think we must have had the same teacher at some point, they put it exactly how you did.
    I did verify it with a few other sites, but as I tried to say, I couldn't find a whole lot of credible information on the topic. The Wikipedia page was the most comprehensive page I could find, so I figured someone on here would know more than it did.

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  17. StowieJ

    StowieJ Member

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    Thanks for clearing that up.

    What were the rules like beforehand? I thought that they had relaxed the rules, not made them more stringent. Obviously I was misinformed.

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  18. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    I'll let you google the new policy, also search this board, I believe it's been discussed.
     
  19. StowieJ

    StowieJ Member

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    I understand the new one pretty well just never heard the old one. Sure thing, I'm sure there's been a lengthy conversation a while back that explains it well.

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  20. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I am a Mom that also taught years ago. I would not accept Wikipedia as a resource. If a teacher will not accept it as a resource, than IMPO don't use it a defense argument position.

    As far as the future, a lesson I and probably every parent here will give....Don't wish your life away! The future is just that! Take control of today. Uniforms or other crap matters naught come August/September. The cadre does not and will not care if you know the inside loop regarding the uniform changes. NOW, maxxing the PFT that will mean something!

    JMPO, walk away and go for a run! Work on your form for sit ups and push ups. You want to be a success and shine? Then accept the idea that they will teach you (instead of Wikipedia or social media) and the way to show how much you are in the game as a freshmen first week is being able to blow everyone else in the dust physically. Backpacks won't do it.
     
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