Discharged DADT Cadet escorts Lady Gaga to VMA's in INDIA WHITES

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I think Katie Miller also has another issue the other 3 didn't have. She resigned in August and within 30 days she is at the VMA with Lady Gaga.

Now take this a little bit further out.

Lady Gaga introduced them as her friends from the SLDN.

Katherine Miller is on the SLDN website with the other 3 at Lady Gaga's concert.

Katherine Miller stated she and the other 3 personally met her after the concert and discussed DADT in length.

Now, being intelligent people, don't you find it strange that these 4 all attended a concert in DC, just to see Lady Gaga and they were all given unfettered access to her? Especially since Katie Miller is from where, OH? She is going to Yale, CT and just left WP, NY, but somehow she decided to attend a concert in DC.

Katie Miller on Velvetpark announced one week prior to telling WP. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...adet-Katherine-Miller-quits-U-S-military.html

She admits to blogging on Velvet park. This is one that is particularly interesting when you add into the next link
http://velvetparkmedia.com/blogs/west-point-lesbian-culture-lesson-3-underground-support

Next week I’ll be returning to West Point, coming out to my commanders, and announcing my resignation from the academy. Since I’m anticipating a rough ride I thought I would provide examples of better coming out experiences during my time as a cadet.
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She announced to the world before WP.

She is also quoted on another site for this remark

But perhaps the most fascinating and touching part of Miller's story is in her final blog post, where she recounts her decision to come out to a professor. Already thinking about leaving USMA, Miller had applied for a scholarship to Yale and learned that, as a semifinalist, she'd need a letter of recommendation from an academic instructor:
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http://motherjones.com/mojo/2010/08/lesbian-cadet-miller-west-point-velvet-park-katie-dadt-army

Now I am not saying that it wasn't difficult, but I am saying it was well thought out and I can't fall for the I didn't realize line. I just wonder if Yale didn't have a congrats in her email box, would she be at WP blogging as Private 2nd class citizen? If she truly could not live this lie anymore, why was it YALE that had her come out. She admits she met Congressman Murphy at the Army Navy game, MONTHS before she resigned. If it was so difficult, than why in August, why not last December. COuld it be she was awarded the scholarship in August?

Defense please!
 
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America's Finest said:
I wasn't implying she should have been more capable of hiding it. I was pointing out an inconsistency in her story (she says she had to live a lie while everyone else says that she didn't live a lie since they all knew she was gay). Her alleged "secret life" didn't exist yet she keeps claiming it which has led many to believe she simply wants attention.
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You are confusing us. How did "everyone" "know" she was gay? Did they assume? Did she confirm their assumptions? Did she tell them?
 
Christcorp said:
This whole "Lying and Deceiving" is a crock.
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There have been three individuals to post on this thread who have graduated from a SA. Two agree with Cadet Miller that honor/integrity and DADT are incompatable. The third, after two queries, refuses to answer. If honor and DADT is indeed incompatable, at what point in a cadet's life do you think this would become evident?
 
There is a difference between giving someone the benefit of the doubt, and turning a blind eye to the situation because you don't want to admit that you are wrong.

If the policy is "don't ask - don't tell", then where is the dishonor is "not telling"? Now, if you want to harp on the "Unofficially, you're going to be interrogated about it", then "WHO" is the one being dishonorable? Seems to me, that those individuals who are disobeying the policy, by "ASKING", are the ones acting dishonorably. Then again, the military deemed that surrendering information to the enemy, when under torture that no longer can be tolerated, is not dishonorable. But you probably believe that death is the ONLY honorable behavior.

If, and I say IF, because I am convinced that she did not hide or dodge the fact that she was gay, she had to side-step, talk around, or even lie about her sexuality, because people were badgering her and questioning her continuously about it, then I don't consider it dishonorable. Honor deals with honesty, integrity, fairness, and a common standard. HONOR can only be accepted and appreciated when all parties share the common standard. I.e. An anti-war, under any circumstance, individual would never believe or accept that a military member acted honorably in certain circumstance, because they don't agree or share the common standard. Well, if people were indeed badgering and basically forcing her to answer a question about her sexuality, in direct conflict with the DADT policy, then they are no longer sharing the common standard. Thus, HONOR is no longer an issue.

Do I think the DADT policy is good for the military and the individuals? No, not at all. Then again, I think it's totally stupid that an 18-20 year old can serve the military and can't legally drink alcohol. (Uh oh, we have a lot of "Dishonorable" cadets and enlisted personnel; don't we). I think the hair standards could use some modernizing. There's a lot of policies, rules, and regulations that I don't think are beneficial to the military and it's members. But I believed that whether I liked the rules or not, if I wanted to play that "game", then I had to accept that I would play by their rules.

This has NOTHING to do with honor. You can't admit being wrong. That's OK, I can buy that. But your rationalizing of this ex-cadet. and her behavior, is quite evident. Now; if the 2 SA graduates who you speak of that believe the DADT policy promotes "Dishonor"; then I'd like for them to PM me and we can discuss it. "Assuming that you're not one of the 2". Because, the fact that you brought up SA grads, implies that "Honor" is not an issue in the "REAL" military where enlisted, ROTC, and OTS individuals reside, and have to deal with the DADT policy in much more difficult scenarios than any cadet does. But there's a really good chance that you're simply spewing what you believe will support your argument. It won't, and it doesn't.
 
Now, being intelligent people, don't you find it strange that these 4 all attended a concert in DC, just to see Lady Gaga and they were all given unfettered access to her? Especially since Katie Miller is from where, OH? She is going to Yale, CT and just left WP, NY, but somehow she decided to attend a concert in DC.
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She was "sponsored" by SLDF to attend the concert. Not clear how it happened but Lady Gaga contacted SLDF or vice versa and SLDF picked the 4 to attend.

Now I am not saying that it wasn't difficult, but I am saying it was well thought out and I can't fall for the I didn't realize line. I just wonder if Yale didn't have a congrats in her email box, would she be at WP blogging as Private 2nd class citizen? If she truly could not live this lie anymore, why was it YALE that had her come out. She admits she met Congressman Murphy at the Army Navy game, MONTHS before she resigned. If it was so difficult, than why in August, why not last December. COuld it be she was awarded the scholarship in August?
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What is the "I didn't realize" line??

Of course she got her ducks in a row before she resigned. Lots of cadets do that. Go to the registrar's office and watch the transcripts go out for cadets who are thinking of transferring. She knew she had until the first day of class.
Cadets who are thinking of separating are frequently advised to wait out the summer and then decide.
Her first blog was in April. She could have had her acceptance to Yale by then - who cares? She chose to finish the semester - not unlike other cadets who choose to leave.
What is there to defend or not defend. Take out the dadt/gay part of it all and it's not unlike other cadets who choose to resign.
 
First off it is the SLDN...Servicemembers Legal Defense Network. There is no F.

Secondly, let's go with the ducks in a row.

Explain why she announced on Velvet Park she was resigning before she gave notice to WP? She got her ducks in a row, didn't WP or the Army deserve to hear it first not a week after she posted it on her blog?

Where is the honor and integrity in that?

Explain her blog...I thought military members were to never place themselves in a political situation, yet, by blogging on Velvet Park, and acknowledging she was Private Second Class Citizen, didn't she break that rule?

She actively participated in a political situation by creating the Blog.

Please Defend that from an honor and integrity POV. Please, explain how she did adhere to the regs and posted her POV on the net via her own words in a blog condemning and criticizing DADT at WP. Please read her blogs.

I am all eyes, waiting to see how you could give her a pass in going against the military's position regarding DADT for many, many months.
 
Christcorp said:
Because, the fact that you brought up SA grads, implies that "Honor" is not an issue in the "REAL" military where enlisted, ROTC, and OTS individuals reside, and have to deal with the DADT policy in much more difficult scenarios than any cadet does. But there's a really good chance that you're simply spewing what you believe will support your argument. It won't, and it doesn't.
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Never knew an example of an enlisted member who was dismissed for a single honor/integrity issue.
 
Well, when you find a gay cadet that was dismissed for an honor or integrity issue; and that integrity/honor issue was in direct response to the DADT policy; then get back to me. Until then, stop making up stuff and pretending that it is a current issue.
 
Mongo said:
Never knew an example of an enlisted member who was dismissed for a single honor/integrity issue.
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I can think of a number of people who lied on security clearnace questionaires....I can think of a few FBI agents that's happening to right now as well.
 
I think you just drove home the pt CC. This to many posters was an honor and integrity issue.

The more I research Katie Miller, the more I question her honor and integrity. Her homosexuality was never an issue for me. She is gay. no biggie.

She has stated she was harassed...that is a biggie for me. The cadets harassing her and asking if she was gay, should also be brought up on disciplinary charges because DADT includes the words DON'T ASK.

However, I cannot support her in any shape or form as a potential officer because of her BLOG. I do not care that she did it from an anonymous position via the net, there is no defense for doing it at all. She knew that it was against regs. to be politically involved in any issue. Not attaching your name to your BLOG, doesn't get you off scot free from an honor or integrity position. Creating that BLOG had 1 issue and 1 issue alone...political regarding DADT.

It is similar to her wearing the uniform, circumventing the reg to fit her needs for her personal agenda.

I love the silence from her supporters when they have now come to find out that the media never informed everyone of her total history.They accepted that the media gave 100% of the facts. They never did the research like me to see she documented for quite some time her life as a cadet on the net, and it was known she was homosexual at WP. The nobody knew was BS, especially when in some of her blogs she states I had Lesbian friends and we talked in code, i.e. Kristine was known as KRIS. Or the Congressman Murphy blog regarding the Army V Navy game. She acknowledges the conversation was held in public, and he wanted to speak to her more, going as far as to give her his contact numbers. A congressman that is vocal on the repeal of DADT.

I love how there is silence now from her supporters when they can't figure out a defense of why she posted 1 week prior on Velvet Park to the world that she would be resigning her commission before telling the Army. Ducks in a row are one thing, and ALL of us would agree that is a smart decision. Having the Ducks in a row, and announcing to the world before your boss is another. She owed that to the military and the taxpayer. She owed them the right to know of her decision before Velvet park. The officer without a political agenda would do that out of respect alone to those who gave them an amazing opportunity.

I love the silence, trying to determine how they can defend her when she openly admits that SLDN hooked her up with Lady Gaga. SLDN is a political organization. Lady Gaga is on record as saying MY SLDN friends at the VMA.

I love the new tactic of "Look over there". This thread is not about look over there, it is about a DADT CADET ESCORTING LADY GAGA.

This thread is not about the other 3, it is about Katherine Miller. If we stick to that fact than we need to address the issue that this is not her first time of pushing the envelope regarding regs. She did it with Velvet Park as Private 2nd Class Citizen, and she did it for the VMA.
 
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Christcorp said:
Until then, stop making up stuff and pretending that it is a current issue.
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LOL. I think you have stated already on this thread that you have your opinions and nothing will cause you to change them. In an absence of fact, my opinions are just as valid as yours, especially since they go along more with her statements and corresponding actions. Also, in the US, isn't one presumed innocent until proven guilty.

When I was losing an argument, I gave up telling the opposition to shut up at about the age of eight or nine as it was a very childish defense.
 
lol...I like how the writer fails by describing the four men and women as "soldiers"...
 
Lesbian cadet who quit seeks return to West Point

Associated Press
NOVEMBER 26, 2010

FINDLAY, Ohio — Katherine Miller got pretty good at hiding her sexuality in high school, brushing off questions about her weekend plans and referring to her girlfriend, Kristin, as "Kris."

She figured she could pull it off at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, too. After all, "don't ask, don't tell" sounded a lot like how she had gotten through her teen years.

But something changed when she arrived at West Point two years ago. She felt the sting of guilt with every lie that violated the academy's honor code. Then, near the end of her first year, she found herself in a classroom discussion about gays in the military, listening to friends say gays disgusted them.

"I couldn't work up the courage to foster an argument against what they were saying for fear of being targeted as a gay myself," Miller told The Associated Press in an interview this week. "I had to be silent. That's not what I wanted to become."

What she has become is an unlikely activist for repealing the ban on gays serving openly in the military. She resigned from the academy in August and within days was one of the most prominent faces of the debate. Yet her greatest hope now is that she can return to the place she just left.

For that to happen, President Barack Obama must make good on his promise to gay rights groups that he would push to repeal the 1993 law by the end of the year. The U.S. House already has signed off on the idea, and the Senate is preparing to debate it in the coming weeks.

The Defense Department on Tuesday will release a report that will help shape what Congress decides. The study has examined whether lifting the ban can be done without disrupting the armed services and current war efforts and includes a survey of about 400,000 troops.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff both have said they would rather see Congress change the law than have it struck down by the courts and risk losing control of how the changes would be put in place.

Adm. Mike Mullen told ABC's "This Week" this month that asking people to lie about themselves goes against the integrity of the armed forces.

Miller, 21, grew up in rural northwest Ohio, where she was captain of her high school softball team and voted most likely to become president.

She started dreaming of going to West Point around the time she turned 16 — more than a year before she came to accept that she was gay. Even after that, the "don't ask, don't tell" policy was no more than a passing concern.

She wanted to be a leader at the academy, someone with honor. She excelled, ranking near the top of her class of more than 1,100 cadets going into their third year. But Miller also was hiding in fear. "I realized that I wasn't becoming the leader of character that I wanted to be," she said.

Other gay cadets in her small circle of friends tried to persuade her to stick it out. Conforming, after all, is a tenet taught in the military.

"It was definitely an option," Miller said. "I just chose not to live my life that way. I'm pretty stubborn in my values. I needed to get out and declare who I was."

She still wonders whether she should have stayed and tried to survive under the policy. "At the same time, I don't think that I would've made nearly the impact that coming out publicly made," she said.

What hurt the most after her resignation were negative comments from people in her hometown. Some were hateful. Some accused her of wasting the military's time and money. Some called her selfish for taking a spot in the academy from someone else.

"My intentions were honorable. It wasn't to become a gay rights activist," she said. "It was something I was forced to think about once I got there."

Miller resigned a week before she would have been required to commit to finish her final two years and serve five years in the military. Cadets who withdraw in their first two years don't owe the government service or compensation for the education and benefits they've received.

There was no answer Friday at the academy's public affairs office. A West Point spokesman said in August that Miller had done very well academically, militarily and physically while at the academy.

The harshest criticism from her former classmates came after she wore her dress whites while walking the red carpet with Lady Gaga at the MTV Video Music Awards. They felt she was using her uniform to make a political statement.

Miller doesn't regret the decision. But she doubts she'll wear her uniform again — at least not until she's back at the academy.

"I'm trying to get back into the military," she said. "I'm not trying to make that difficult when that occurs."

She calls strangers "sir" and "ma'am." She wears her black hair tightly pulled back.

Miller is now preparing her application to the academy in case Congress acts quickly on "don't ask, don't tell." She knows not everyone will welcome her back but thinks the military will become a stronger institution for it by opening up to all qualified candidates.

"There's going to be hostility toward me, and that's inevitable," she said.

For now, Miller is attending Yale University and taking three classes, including U.S. lesbian and gay history and sexual gender in society — courses not found at the academy.

She has found freedom in the school's gay community and likes staying up late. Still, her heart is in West Point.

She misses the respect, the hierarchy — everything but one rule.
 
Geez wiz, now that's a hero! Get out the Legion of Merit, honor and achievement have returned to West Point!


I won't even comment on the last line.
 
She quit when she almost certainly knew the policy was being reviewed (with an eye towards repeal). That strikes me as...shall we say, not the brightest move.

If DADT is quickly repealed and she did return to WP, I think I may have to rethink my opinion on her motivations.

Still, it seems like she created a lot of high drama without much need, and placed her future plans in doubt. One cadet resigning in protest won't make that much of a difference in this debate.

Hostility? Yeah, I'd expect a little. I know a few cadets at USAFA were very upset that one basic quit, came back the next year, then quit again without so much as making it a full day in BCT. I'm thinking that some would view this similarly (wasted slot, questions of motivation, etc).
 
But what if it is not immediately passed? She stayed as long as she could under the circumstances.
 
Then we have to look at her, as an individual, and her motives. She/you say that she stayed as long as she could. That the policy was just too much for her. Well, each individual is different. Some quit during BCT. Some after 1 semester. Some within the first 2 years. And they all have some situation that they felt they couldn't handle or didn't want any longer. Does anyone here honestly believe that the DADT policy is the "Hardest" situation a person could go through at the academy or in the military in general? There's a difference between someone who says: "This isn't for me, I need to get out and move on".... and "A quitter". She's a quitter. She knew the policy when she applied to the academy. She accepted the policy when she accepted her appointment. It was too "Difficult" for her to handle. So, she left. This in no way will be the most difficult situation she is going to go through at the academy or in military life. Other people who leave the academy have basically said: "This isn't for me, I'm moving on". She basically said: "This is for me, but I can't HANDLE certain challenge".... So, she quit. There's a big difference.

It could have been exactly the same if she had religious beliefs that the military wouldn't let her exercise. Such as wearing certain religious clothing during duty hours. Or not wanting to keep her hair short. Or not liking that the military doesn't allow you the same freedom of speech, expression, etc... that civilians are allowed under the 1st amendment. There is no difference between DADT and any other limiting policy on your rights and/or conduct. When you join the military, you ACCEPT these limitations, or you don't join. She couldn't handle a certain limitation. When I and others joined the military, we accepted the fact that we might not LIKE all the rules; we might not agree with all the rules; but if we want to be in the military, we will LIVE by the rules. That is the fundamental premise of a military member. That is part of the oath you take. That you will basically follow orders. She couldn't, so she left. Her "CHARACTER" already proves that she isn't and won't be a good military officer. While the military isn't looking for robots, the basic concept is that you will follow, give, put up with, live with, etc... rules, laws, policies, orders, etc... that you don't necessarily agree with or like. She has shown that she can't do that. If it wasn't DADT, it would have been OR WORSE YET, WILL BE, another order, policy, law, rule, etc...

The individual with good "Character" would put up with it. They wouldn't quit. They would fight the policy from within the system. They wouldn't "Voluntarily Quit". If she couldn't live by the "DON'T TELL" part of the policy, she should have force the military to kick her out if she wanted to make a statement. She took the easy way out. Especially after getting as much FREE education out of the military that she could, without owing them anything back. And having Yale University already lined up PRIOR to quitting. This woman has no honor. No integrity. And questionable character. She QUIT once.... There's nothing to say she won't QUIT again. I respect the individual who says it's not for them, and they leave. I respect the person who puts up and lives with policies, orders, laws, etc... that they don't like or agree with. (That's the core of the military person). I respect the person who stays in and fights for what they believe in, when they get caught in the crossfire of such conflicts.

I don't respect this woman. She's a quitter. Big difference between her and the person who says the military lifestyle isn't for them. That person accepts the differences and conflicts; respects them; and moves on. If she comes back, I wouldn't be surprised if she quits again. She'll say something stupid like: "Yes, the policy is no longer there, but there's too many military members who secretly are against gays, and I can't handle it". Well, welcome to the real world. There's people who are racist, sexist, bigots, etc... It doesn't matter if you're from New Jersey, Alabama, North Dakota, California, Male, Woman, Gay, Straight, Black, White, Hispanic, tall, short, fat, skinny, christian, jewish, muslim, etc.... There will always be someone out there that doesn't like you. There will always be someone who is prejudice against you. It's called the real world. She's a quitter. And she'll probably always be a quitter. Always looking for someone else to blame. Sorry, but life isn't a Rodney King "Can't we all just get along" world. If it was, we wouldn't even need a military.

Will she quit next time because she gets deployed and doesn't like the way women are treated in the middle east? Will she quit because a woman isn't allowed into certain career fields? Will she quit again because she finds something else she considers discriminating? Thousands upon thousands of military men and women have put up with similar issues for hundreds of years. For them, it might not have been DADT, but something else. Thousands upon thousands didn't quit either. Sorry, I still have zero respect for this woman.
 
Christcorp said:
I don't respect this woman. She's a quitter.
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I don't think so. I has not been my experience that 'quitters' break out at the top of their class at a SA. I think that Adm Mullen has hit the nail on the head:
Adm. Mike Mullen told ABC's "This Week" this month that asking people to lie about themselves goes against the integrity of the armed forces.
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As Cadet Miller has repeatedly stated, the Cadet Honor Code is not compatable with DADT. While, on the surface, it may appear doable, after two years of being imbdued in the inner workings of the Code, the dichotomy becomes apparent. At least it definitely would for me and most others who have experienced the system.
 
My point, is this policy/rule/reg/law/etc... is not the only one that was a PITA, that people didn't like or agree with, and "LEARNED" to put up with. Many of us here are retired or has 20+ years. We didn't go that whole time agreeing with every policy. We weighed the pros and cons and decided whether to stay with the military or get out. This is a policy she was quite well aware of prior to accepting her appointment. Only after 2 years, a days shy of commitment day did she decide she couldn't handle it. Sorry; not buying it.
 
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