Grenade!!

[Jamesfromthecountry]

Class of 2024 lost about 120 new cadets during beast. That's about triple what Class of 2022 during beast. Interesting that 2024 had a much shorter beast yet lost many more cadets.

120! Wow... that's a lot. Do you know why so many new cadets quit during Beast?

 

[here2learn]

You originally wrote “not a bad deal”. Is it better than being kicked out? Of course. But it’s not something anyone seeks to do and if you were to ask any Cadet or Midshipmen they would most certainly say it’s a punishment. Same with the program where you are sent to the enlisted ranks for a few years, then permitted to come back if recommended. It’s a good learning experience, but not something Cadets and Midshipmen aspire to achieve when they arrive. Yes, the military will be paying for an extra year, but the Cadets are also paying by delaying their commissioning by a year. Over a 20 year career being 12 months behind your peers can add up to a good deal of money.
I would also point out that none of these Cadets had yet to affirm, so this is being done voluntarily and not all Cadets were given this option. Some were expelled.
Finally, my point about PT is that Cadets are given almost four years to pass and are given quite a bit of assistance, so it is hardly the same. If someone can not pass a physical test after that much time and help then they have issues.

And if someone doesn't have the integrity not to cheat maybe they are in the wrong place.

 

[DDmom]

120! Wow... that's a lot. Do you know why so many new cadets quit during Beast?

I do not, it seems odd to have a shorter beast and have so many more quit. Maybe its the new ideology they are instituting or maybe covid related?

 

[DDmom]

Interesting...my son is a part of that class (2024), and, when we asked him, had no idea how many in his class had quit. Not one Plebe in his company has quit (he did know that much). If 120 did quit during Beast that is a real shame. There's a bunch of c/o '25 re-applicants in this Forum that would have loved to have been there in their place.

I agree. I am 100 % sure of that number, it came from a 2024 parent. Ask your son to look up his class rank, it should show where he stands and the total number in the class.

 

[UHBlackhawk]

And if someone doesn't have the integrity not to cheat maybe they are in the wrong place.

The appropriateness of the punishment itself is a different discussion. It complied with the policy, and while not what some would want, is hardly a reward.

 

[prospective2019]

I am confused, C/O 2023 has NOT affirmed yet! They don't until after they return from the summer. How would you know how many do not affirm?

Leaving prior to affirmation

 

[MamaBear4]

Do cadets who cheated get another year of athletics? That would be unreal on the dime of taxpayers.

 

[Usma23]

I do not, it seems odd to have a shorter beast and have so many more quit. Maybe its the new ideology they are instituting or maybe covid related?

It was definitely covid related, and most people were not mentally strong enough to deal with beast.

 

[TexasAggie204]

It was definitely covid related, and most people were not mentally strong enough to deal with beast.

Interesting...

My son is 100% convinced that Beast was easier than in years past due to Covid: It definitely was shorter. I'm not saying that he said it was any kind of holiday, and I'm definitely not implying that my son is an unusually tough kid, but there were definitely obvious concessions made by the Cadre and all levels of Academy leadership to make sure that the New Cadets were treated LIKE NONE BEFORE - 2024.

Who knows? Maybe a lot of these kids had carryover PTSD from missing their Prom and walking at their Graduation? Or maybe this is the new "normal" and more and more kids will quit whatever is in front of them when things get tough.

We told our son to think long and hard before hitting that acceptance button on the USMA Candidate Portal, because once he did, there would be NO QUITTING!

Do parents even tell their kids that anymore???

 

[UHBlackhawk]

I do think there was less of a support structure and fewer releases. Many sports had seasons cancelled, some sports were more isolated, club seasons cancelled, not able to visit sponsors or go out the gate. Heck, DD hates football but she enjoyed attending football games with the other Cadets. Many things that by themselves are small but add up and can wear on a person.

 

[bt18]

...If 120 did quit during Beast that is a real shame. There's a bunch of c/o '25 re-applicants in this Forum that would have loved to have been there in their place.

Couldn't be more true. I have already met about 7 other guys who are currently in college and reapplied and received appointments because West Point has always been the number one goal.

 

[MamaBear4]

Couldn't be more true. I have already met about 7 other guys who are currently in college and reapplied and received appointments because West Point has always been the number one goal.

They didn’t earn the spot for 2024 and will get their chance now with 2025. It’s easy to judge choices made by someone else when you don’t walk in their shoes.

Success takes many paths. It’s been a #%^* show 13 months. Mental health matters. I would rather my sons know I support their well thought out plans than expect them to continue on in misery in a program that isn’t their path.

 

[bt18]

They didn’t earn the spot for 2024 and will get their chance now with 2025. It’s easy to judge choices made by someone else when you don’t walk in their shoes.

Success takes many paths. It’s been a #%^* show 13 months. Mental health matters. I would rather my sons know I support their well thought out plans than expect them to continue on in misery in a program that isn’t their path.

Honestly, that is a really really good way of looking at it. I really agree with you, thanks for that.

 

[prospective2019]

Better someone figures out they don't want to be an Army officer before they commission as an Army officer. Yes--they took someone else's slot. But I believe there are far greater consequences to graduating a cadet who decides they don't want to lead soldiers.

 

[bt18]

Better someone figures out they don't want to be an Army officer before they commission as an Army officer. Yes--they took someone else's slot. But I believe there are far greater consequences to graduating a cadet who decides they don't want to lead soldiers.

Completely agree.

 

[ETM]

I read the released report on the USMA cheating scandal and a big reason why these cadets are getting another opportunity is because of the honor policy that has been in place the last few years which allows a cadet to self report their involvement in an honor offense and then have a path to stay at West Point. I believe it was around 50 who self admitted to cheating here. The Superintendent also said that they are no longer going to have that as a policy going forward as he does not believe it worked as it was intended. Hopefully I am summarizing that correctly but others can weigh in that have more knowledge. As far as the Naval Academy physics scandal, it happened this past fall and appears to have involved around 80 in the class of 2023. Final report has not been made official but word inside Bancroft is that the Mids involved were pulled from Physics 2 part way through this second semester, they will be retaking Physics 1 in summer school and Physics 2 next fall. They are also on restriction and cannot currently compete in Varsity sports. I do not believe they were asked to repeat a year. Some have chosen to leave USNA but I do not know how many. Covid has been very tough environment for all and lets hope our academies quickly recover and press forward in training excellent young people.

You are correct in that the USNA that issues regarding SP211 were from last December and initially involved around 80 in the Class of 2023. There are now more than 110 associated. You are also correct in that the MIDNs involved were issued failing grades for SP211 and their enrollment in Physics 2 was withdrawn. However, it should be noted that this action was before the MIDNs involved were even formally charged. This was a public statement to the Brigade, in my opinion, that goes against the value of innocence until proven guilty and a violation of the MIDNs rights to confidentiality.

The problem that I have with all of this is that there has been a presumption of guilt. These young men and women are only now having their Honor Boards and many are being found not guilty of these charges through the established process. Yet the damage is done to their academic record and their training schedules. Because of COVID, the training for the Class of 2023 had already been marginalized.

Some will be asked to leave, appropriately so. Some will take qualified resignation. I am just sad for those that voluntarily resign after being found innocent because they come to the conclusion they will not be given the opportunity to succeed.

 

[Wishful]

@ETM ???
How do you know that the conclusion you stated (that the MIDS will not be given the opportunity to succeed) was the one they all reached when they resigned? Maybe the place isn't for them. Maybe they realized that STEM classes were not for them. Maybe they were at USNA because their parents wanted it & this was their chance to get out, etc..MIDS/Cadets drop out in years 1 & 2.

Isn't repeating the class this semester (Should be easy since they passed it on your own already; just have to brush off their notes.) & taking part 2 this summer a chance to succeed? I think so. I wouldn't want to do it, but if I wanted to be a Naval Officer Academy grad, it's a hoop I'd have to jump through. Won't be the last time they'll find out that life/military/work/school/relationships are not fair; that sometimes it's about the process/institution/someone else etc.

It looks to me that the system is working. Someone's' actions/conduct warranted an investigation. The investigation concluded, the results were presented in a judicial setting where the accused has rights, & a verdict was reached.

I agree with your statement on all being tarred with the presumption of guilt brush is wrong, but it's safe to say that in this current climate, certain people are presumed guilty by the court of public opinion & those accused have to wait to be proven innocent.

 

[DDmom]

120! Wow... that's a lot. Do you know why so many new cadets quit during Beast?

that was during beast

 

[DDmom]

Interesting...

My son is 100% convinced that Beast was easier than in years past due to Covid: It definitely was shorter. I'm not saying that he said it was any kind of holiday, and I'm definitely not implying that my son is an unusually tough kid, but there were definitely obvious concessions made by the Cadre and all levels of Academy leadership to make sure that the New Cadets were treated LIKE NONE BEFORE - 2024.

Who knows? Maybe a lot of these kids had carryover PTSD from missing their Prom and walking at their Graduation? Or maybe this is the new "normal" and more and more kids will quit whatever is in front of them when things get tough.

We told our son to think long and hard before hitting that acceptance button on the USMA Candidate Portal, because once he did, there would be NO QUITTING!

Do parents even tell their kids that anymore???

We raised our kids the same, not quitters!

 

[DDmom]

Do cadets who cheated get another year of athletics? That would be unreal on the dime of taxpayers.

It is my understanding and I could be wrong but I think after their probationary period they are able to compete in sports again. I think for most that would put them back in their sports by fall. Like I said I could have misinterpreted what I read.