January 4, 2011 AROTC Board

If the decisions indeed come out on March 1st there is no doubt this thread will top 50,000 views. I think Clarkson's idea of turning it into a book is a great idea, just hand it out to all ROTC applicants for next year.

Patnetesq made a comment earlier about melding the final 2 boards together and the reletive fairness of those boarded before the deadline, all valid points by the way. I have an observation that formed over the past 3 years on the early applicant question.

When my first son applied in Fall of 2007 the individual batallions made the offers, it really didn't matter that much if you applied early or not. Now that things have changed to CC making the decisions, getting your application in early has become more important.

Last Spring when my younger son started his application I lost track of how many times the PMS and ROO told him to make sure he got his application complete and ready for the first board. The PMS told him at his interview that having his application in early and being able to be reviewed by all 3 boards increased his chances.

Now, the rest of this is purely speculation on my part based on subtle comments made by the PMS and ROO at several schools we visited, and the experiences of a couple of my son's classmates.

It was insinuated by the PMS that those who applied early had commitment to the ARMY that was not based soley on the money the scholarship offered. We didn't think to much about this at the time. Last year when my younger son was talking to classmates about his desire to do AROTC and apply for the scholarship he got quite a few different opinions from his friends, not all good ones eaither. There was a lot of "Why in the world would you want to do that" comments. Now fast forward to this Fall. These same kids started doing college tours, they also started doing the math on just how much college was really going to cost. It surpised me how little planning some people put into college. Around the beginning of December these same kids started asking my son more about the AROTC scholarship and the process. DS had already received the scholarship and had selected his school. Two of the kids who had originally made the above comments filled out the application, submitted them just before the deadline, have had their interviews and and are ready for the final board. I have no doubt in my mind that the money was the overwhelming reason they applied.

The exact same thing happened when my older son applied in 07, two classmates saw what the scholarship was worth, saw it as a way to pay for college. They were both awarded scholarships. Both of them lasted their freshman year, they did not quite know what they were getting into, decided it was not for them and quit at the end of the freshman year. They have both transferred back to in state schools.

Now i don't know if any of this plays into the minds of those on the boards, I just know that it was a concern of the PMS that interviewed my younger son. There is a spot on the interview sheet that allows for comments by the PMS.

I guess my point in all this babbling is that there may be an underlying reason for getting the application in early, sort of a method to the madness. Of course I could be totally off base, which wouldn't be the first time.

We should get OhioParent a trophy for this massive thread she started or at least get her the name of a good publisher.
 
Incredible day for you guys...came home in a good mood(sunshine @65 in Cincy) and read thru and now I'm in a great mood!!:shake: Welcome to our new posters, KSMom - glad you're still out there too, and that DS has found another path too(just in case...).

Please, realize when I started this thread I was only copying the idea. I read threads on this forum and saw a thread for just about every board since SAF started. This wild ride we are all on was never supposed to be about views and posts counts. I find it all very amusing, but if this thread "tops" anything is has truly been a team effort - there are so many contributing ideas, humor and good will that it is a pleasure to log in.:thumb::confused:

Patentesq, thanks for posting the links to CNN article, I read that this morning, but I'm not tech savy and didn't know how to link it to our thread. Maybe I should add a computer class to my wish list along with economics and statisics.....:redface:
 
just wanted to add 2 cents to jcleppe's post. If someone actually visits Clarkson (mapquest Potsdam NY and you'll see what I mean)...that is a pretty good indication they are serious about the school and our program. You are exactly right that that makes an impact on the interview score and subsequent efforts to squeeze out the additional funds. May not be the same deal at a big, popular school, but if your dream school is a small one apply early and show interest and good things will happen.
 
My son just received this email from the ROO at one of the schools he received the scholarship from. The email seems to follow a lot of what has been said on this board. He does give some good advice.

Email:

Team,
I don't have a crystal ball and I have not been told by Cadet Command but I believe I understand why the board results have not yet been released and why little is being said about scholarship offers. Please let me explain (again in the absence of information this is my best guess). Last year, congress did not pass a budget. We have been operating on a continuing budget resolution since 1 October 2010. Based on the promise of budget cuts when the next budget is approved, The command has to be extremely cautious in the number of scholarships it awards. It could very easily offer more scholarships than the budget can cover if it fails to wait until congress provides the military the appropriate guidance. So, if you think about it, Cadet Command is being very responsible in holding back until it receives the appropriate funding guidance.

I know this is not what families want to hear but we simply don't know what we don't know. I have been and continue to be very honest with all of you. My hope is that the money will come but I have no idea how much will be provided or when.
My best advise to you is this: Have a plan to attend a school that you can afford (don't wait to apply there). In many cases that means an in-state school (make sure it is a school that you will be happy with). For many students, I anticipate they may have to pay for the first year of college without an ROTC scholarship. Those that enroll in an ROTC program and do well their first year may find that there are more 3-Year scholarship dollars available. I am not saying that there aren't going to be any 4-year scholarships. What I am saying is that based on the total lack of budget guidance you should all prepare for the worst case senerio (and be very proud/happy if you receive a 4-year offer).

I continue to wish the very best for all of you and would love to have you attend *** in the fall but I completely understand if you need to make other plans. As always, I will do everything that I can to help you and keep you informed.
 
^ nice email. The key however is that he himself states it is "my best guess". I'm sure something definitive will come out of Cadet Command in the next 60 days or so describing what has transpired, and why.
 
^ nice email. The key however is that he himself states it is "my best guess". I'm sure something definitive will come out of Cadet Command in the next 60 days or so describing what has transpired, and why.

Hopefully 60 days from now(April 16) even the March board results are released and the why and how just won't matter too much then.:wink:

Jcleppe, thanks for sharing what you've been told with us. The information changes nothing, but at least shows you've got an amazing ROO at you DS's school.
 
It was insinuated by the PMS that those who applied early had commitment to the ARMY that was not based soley on the money the scholarship offered.

Jcleppe, I certainly hope that CC is MUCH more sophisticated than simply using the DATE appearing on one's application as a measure to gauge whether an applicant is commited to the Army or not. My DS INTENTIONALLY did not complete his file before the first board because (1) he wanted and needed extra time to improve his PT scores as much as possible to improve his WCS (both for AROTC and USMA), (2) there is a MAJOR issue with AROTC having the board so early and awarding a scholarship MONTHS before my DS will ever know about an admissions decision before his selected civilian college; and (3) THE PMS AT THE SCHOOL WHERE MY DS INTERVIEWED SPECIFICALLY ADVISED HIM THAT VERY FEW WOULD BE AWARDED FROM THAT FIRST BOARD, BECAUSE THE BOARD WANTS TO ESTABLISH A BASELINE, AND THAT IT WOULD BE BETTER TO HAVE A HIGHER PUSH-UP SCORE FOR THE JANUARY BOARD THAN A LOWER SCORE.

None of these strategic reasons for deciding when to drop the AROTC application have ANYTHING to do with one's commitment to the Army. The time to gauge someone's commitment to the Army is during the INTERVIEW, not by the date when the application is complete (my DS actually started the process in July!!). Perhaps CC would also be interested in knowing that my DS was simultaneously applying for an appointment to USMA. I am certain that there are applicants who filed their applications early who have ZERO interest in AROTC (many of whom have already accepted appointments in USNA or USAFA!!).

Taking the PMS's logic one step farther, suppose Applicant A submits his/her AROTC application on October 15 and Applicant B submits his/her AROTC application on October 16, does this mean that Applicant A is MORE committed to the Army than Applicant B? I think not! If your PMS turns out to be right at the end of the day, then the procedures at CC would seem to MUCH more amateurish than I ever thought! Certainly, the United States Military Academy at West Point does not operate this way, and they have a lot of experience with gauging applicant interest (maybe it is unfair to compare CC to USMA, though, because the application process for an appointment to USMA is MUCH more difficult than filling out a form for AROTC).

Sorry to be so terse (I am a HUGE Jclepp fan!!!!!), but if CC says the deadline is X and people follow that instruction, they should not interpret anything behind the motives of an applicant other than compliance with the stated deadline. Many of the SOPHISTICATED SCHOOLS in America do NOT care if a student submits a Regular Decision application in October, November, or December when they publicly state that the deadline is January 1. Those applications that are submitted early do NOT get "brownie points" for filing early; early application simply collect dust on the application pile until the January 1 filing deadline. I would think that CC is just as sophisticated.

My advice to those reading this post is that it is MUCH more important to improve your credentials than completing your file early in the HOPE that someone MAY think you are more committed than the others, because you simply have an earlier date on your application.

We should get OhioParent a trophy for this massive thread she started or at least get her the name of a good publisher.

A trophy? I think Ohio2015Parent shouldn't settle for that -- she deserves nothing LESS than the coveted SAF Coffee Mug!! :shake:

Patentesq, thanks for posting the links to CNN article, I read that this morning, but I'm not tech savy and didn't know how to link it to our thread. Maybe I should add a computer class to my wish list along with economics and statisics.....:redface:

Sounds like the time has come to remind your DS -- despite all of the demonstrations we've seen lately in the Middle East calling for democracy --that the regime in the Ohio2015Parent household remains authoritarian and will always remain authoritarian! Your son therefore has NO choice but to show you how to cut and paste a link into an SAF post! :smile:
 
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A trophy? I think Ohio2015Parent shouldn't settle for that -- she deserves nothing LESS than the coveted SAF Coffee Mug!! :shake:



Sounds like the time has come to remind your DS -- despite all of the demonstrations we've seen lately in the Middle East calling for democracy --that the regime in the Ohio2015Parent household remains authoritarian and will always remain authoritarian! Your son therefore has NO choice but to show you how to cut and paste a link into an SAF post! :smile:

Another coffee mug, hey, I do drink a lot of coffee....:wink:

How did you guess DS was my source of all things technological...I learned how to cut and paste from site to Word document last spring...:yllol::yllol: Will get him to show me soon(if he ever comes home....)

Seriously, I believe you and Jcleppe both have vaild points about when/how and the why of submitting applications. Let us hope the board officials can use their 350 pts. to weigh in on observations made by the interviewing PMS/ROOs(DS had 3 members do his interview, ROO, PMS and another member of the cadre)the essays that the applicants write and simply that applicants that are of the "hurry, its a good way to pay for school" will not show the years of typical resume building serious SA and/or ROTC applicants exhibit. Especially now that $$ are in short supply and need is down, these types of late comers will be seen for their true colors and our kiddos will be rewarded for their early committment(mental if not actual paper submitted) when these results are released.
 
Campus wide scholarships

When my son interviewed he was told to sit tight if he was not picked up by the Jan 4 board because they gave campus wide rotc scholarships as well. Anyone know anything about this?

Also, found out what the "complete-hold" status meant on DoDMERB. They were waiting on a test from the Doctor office.
 
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My son just received this email from the ROO at one of the schools he received the scholarship from. The email seems to follow a lot of what has been said on this board. He does give some good advice.

Jcleppe, many thanks for sharing this. Your postings have always been very thoughtful and insightful, and I am feeling a bit of remorse about blasting your DS's PMS in my earlier post. I hope you truly have thick skin (especially when my irritation was directed to the PMS who had told you a couple of weeks ago -- contrary to the email that your DS received today -- that the delay was NOT related to budget issues). I hope you don't think I have anything but the utmost respect for you.

The email from the ROO is terrific and reflects the perception that many of us share here on SAF, including "your's truly." However, I have a sinking feeling in my gut that the ROO who sent the email today may be forming his beliefs based on his daily review of the postings here on SAF (or from someone who has been following our discussion). He may be reading this post right now!:eek:

The most interesting takeaway from that email, though, is true confirmation that the ROOs themselves do not currently know what is going on. This leads me to believe that it is a TOTAL waste of time for people to be calling their ROOs for more information, because the answer won't be any more grounded in fact than asking someone here on SAF what they think!
 
anyone else having problems?

We have been trying to access the CC website to check the status of our DS scholarship application for about 4 months now. His PMS assured him that his application was sent to the boards yet the phone status keeps telling us that "you have been selected for an interview" of which he completed back in June, 2010. The website has been giving us this error for the past 4 months

This webpage is not available
The webpage at http://schlr4yr.usarmyrotc.com/scholarshipstatus/ might be temporarily down or it may have moved permanently to a new web address.
Error 101 (net::ERR_CONNECTION_RESET): Unknown error.[/COLOR][/COLOR]

We have tried calling, emailing, etc but no one will get back with us on this issue. We keeping getting passed around to person who "handles that type of issue".

Anyone else having this problem???
 
THANK YOU!.. Our frustration has been dissolved.....and it is now bookmarked. Just hoping that we hear something positive soon.
 
Campus based scholarships

When my son interviewed he was told to sit tight if he was not picked up by the Jan 4 board because they gave campus wide rotc scholarships as well. Anyone know anything about this?

Also, found out what the "complete-hold" status meant on DoDMERB. They were waiting on a test from the Doctor office.

These are scholarships that are awarded by individual colleges and are only to be used at the awarding school. Several of the schools DS visited said these were available, some were for three years. Seems the college waits to see if a national scholarship is awarded and if not may use the campus based scholarship. Our DS was given similar information to your DS, after talking with ROO DS was told if ACT score was 24 he would be considered. Probably other forum members will tell of their variation on this theme.
 
We have been trying to access the CC website to check the status of our DS scholarship application for about 4 months now. His PMS assured him that his application was sent to the boards yet the phone status keeps telling us that "you have been selected for an interview" of which he completed back in June, 2010. The website has been giving us this error for the past 4 months

This webpage is not available
The webpage at http://schlr4yr.usarmyrotc.com/scholarshipstatus/ might be temporarily down or it may have moved permanently to a new web address.
Error 101 (net::ERR_CONNECTION_RESET): Unknown error.[/COLOR][/COLOR]

We have tried calling, emailing, etc but no one will get back with us on this issue. We keeping getting passed around to person who "handles that type of issue".

Anyone else having this problem???
We are also having problems with the website. We can get to the website and log-in but it still says our DS needs an interview. He had his interview in early Jan. The ROO that did the interview says he submitted it and received confirmation of receipt, but after emailing/calling mulitple times, CC says they still have not received it. ARGH!!! Talk about being caught in the middle. In addition, any attempted contact with CC takes at least 2 weeks to receive a reply. ANy advice to resolve this would be appreciated.
 
We are also having problems with the website. We can get to the website and log-in but it still says our DS needs an interview. He had his interview in early Jan. The ROO that did the interview says he submitted it and received confirmation of receipt, but after emailing/calling mulitple times, CC says they still have not received it. ARGH!!! Talk about being caught in the middle. In addition, any attempted contact with CC takes at least 2 weeks to receive a reply. ANy advice to resolve this would be appreciated.

I would ask the ROO to re-submit your DS's interview form(hopefully he has maintained his copy). Ask him to email, fax and physically snailmail a copy to the new address/phone/email whatever that CC changed to during their move from VA to KY. I believe the move took place during mid-January. I know my DS has had difficultly getting emails back from his POC...things must be awfully hectic at CC, hope my suggestion helps, or at least having someone actually HEARS you helps. Another suggestion just came to me...do you have facebook? If so search for Army Cadet Command and "like" their page, then you can post your question to them directly...:eek: its almost midnight and my brain is still working....:smile:Take care.
 
We are also having problems with the website. We can get to the website and log-in but it still says our DS needs an interview. He had his interview in early Jan. The ROO that did the interview says he submitted it and received confirmation of receipt, but after emailing/calling mulitple times, CC says they still have not received it. ARGH!!! Talk about being caught in the middle. In addition, any attempted contact with CC takes at least 2 weeks to receive a reply. ANy advice to resolve this would be appreciated.

Get your ROO personally involved. Contact the Commander of Cadet Command if you have to. The FINAL board is March 8 -- don't let bureaucracy stand in your way. Your ROO should be picking up the phone and calling the "private" numbers. Even if you have to spend an entire day calling everyone you can think of, my recommendation is to do it.
 
Get your ROO personally involved. Contact the Commander of Cadet Command if you have to. The FINAL board is March 8 -- don't let bureaucracy stand in your way. Your ROO should be picking up the phone and calling the "private" numbers. Even if you have to spend an entire day calling everyone you can think of, my recommendation is to do it.
Thank you-- that was my gut feeling-- already have the ROO's number in my purse to call from work. Normally we tell our DS to make all phone calls himself, but lately he has no time during the day other than lunch and the last time he tried that the ROO was at lunch as well. Time for Mama Bear to go into action! Great idea about the Facebook connection Ohio2015-- now, go to bed-- you've earned your rest. :)
 
Late night ramblings

Jcleppe, I certainly hope that CC is MUCH more sophisticated than simply using the DATE appearing on one's application as a measure to gauge whether an applicant is commited to the Army or not. My DS INTENTIONALLY did not complete his file before the first board

Consider this food for thought when thinking about dates on applications:
1) we live in a quantitative society that fixates on scores, dates, rankings, batting averages, ROI's and GPA's
2) we live in a technology driven society that uses software code to sort, rank, extrapolate and calculate almost any data set
3) we live in a culture of hyper activity where time is "valued" for billing, estimating costs and determining pay
4) we use phrases like "the early bird gets the worm" and "early to bed, early to rise..."

So if you have two (or 25) similar candidates what would be a quick, culturally acceptable way to determine commitment? Date order your list (with a click of a button) to see who applied earlier. Choose those with October application dates over January dates. All the while assuming these applicants must be truly committed or they would've found something better to do with their time then complete an application when they could've been getting a tan.

Can you see the dilemma here? I'm sure you can. Often culturally we value being first not being kind, we compare sales figures not selfless acts, we want sound bites not discourse and so we dismiss important qualitative factors as we process so much information. We don't ask could an application submitted in early December be an intentional act? And if we do ask the question we can't easily get the answer so we resort back to our culturally programmed values and deduce probably not.

Sorry for the ramblings but there is a bit of a cultural war going on in my workplace over this very issue where a department who does qualitative assessing insists they have a better handle on things than those who only want to look at the quantitative.

So Patentesq, I ask myself, what cultural "norms" am I passing on to my children? Am I helping them to consider why we act in the ways we do? I can see from your forum postings that you are willing to ask the "why" questions and I hope my children can do the same at appropriate times.

One of my favorite sayings: 10% of the people think, 10% of the people think they think and 80% would rather die than think. To break out of the 80% is a real challenge.
 
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