When you get cases of brand new plebe female cadets being asked questions along the lines of:
-"What's your favorite sexual position?"
-"How deep can you take a **** into your mouth?"
-"You look real cute. What's your phone number? I can get you out of here and get you alcohol on the weekends."
by upperclass Cadets you have a serious problem. I've heard of more cases of females being treated in a degrading and animalistic manner by male counterparts than I have heard of males being falsely accused. In fact, with the exception of Trent (whose case we don't have all the details of) , I haven't heard of a case of sexual harassment/sexual assault where a male was falsely accused and didn't deserve the disciplinary action he received.
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If that has been your experience, I 100% agree with your post. However, in the two+ years I've been here, I have never seen or heard of someone crossing the line like that.
Uh...yeah. I wonder who/where/when such a conversation would ever occur. Unless TheKnight was actually there to hear those questions, I look upon them very skeptically. I don't downplay the significance of them if they happened. However, it's no secret (and by that I mean its blatantly clear) that such conduct will cause USMA to do everything in their power to ruin your life. If you're that stupid and reckless, no amount of philosophical and social training from USMA is going to fix it.
USMA will never be free from rape and sexual misconduct. If parents are terribly concerned (and they have a right to be) they should bear in mind...
1. USMA will always have sexual conduct issues. The population guarantees that.
2. Your child is still extremely safe at any SA...more so than at any major college I can think of.
Like let 6 Firsties graduate by condensing a program that should be 16 weeks into a few days so that they can graduate on time? What about all the people who, from this point forward, get enrolled in the respect mentorship program? On what justification will leadership keep the rest of the rugby team locked down, and other cadets in the program, for the duration of the program when clearly the standard for its completion can be waived if something as "pressing" as graduation is on the horizon?Uh...yeah. I wonder who/where/when such a conversation would ever occur. Unless TheKnight was actually there to hear those questions, I look upon them very skeptically. I don't downplay the significance of them if they happened. However, it's no secret (and by that I mean its blatantly clear) that such conduct will cause USMA to do everything in their power to ruin your life.
USMA will never be free from rape and sexual misconduct. If parents are terribly concerned (and they have a right to be) they should bear in mind...
1. USMA will always have sexual conduct issues. The population guarantees that.
2. Your child is still extremely safe at any SA...more so than at any major college I can think of.
What is your take on this... as to the factual accuracy of the article and as to the warning that political pressure and command influence will trump the judicial process.
I agree. If you look at government stats, the problem is greater at civilian schools and private industry. The difference is that every incident at WP gets BIG publicity. Also, the military brass has been forced to - in my view - go overboard in enforcing the highest standards.
The disparity in punishments for offenders is problematic. Something that, personally, I'd love to see fixed.The VAST majority of the people punished as a result of these drinking parties are males.
I believe you are MUCH safer at WP than the vast majority of other colleges. I believe there is unwanted sexual contact at WP but the problem is very overblown.
Back to this scenario though, it's really hard to decide what the right thing to do is. Not in this particular case but in SA cases overall. When a victim reports that they have been assaulted or harassed, you can't ignore their claims. But due to the nature of these cases the evidence is generally just firsthand plaintiff-defendant accounts of the events.
Because the military gets so much flack about sexual harassment in its ranks, there is an almost immediate inclination to side with the female over the male, and while in many cases this may be the right thing to do - it does sometimes lead to a miscarriage of justice.
The only practical solution would be to change the rules regarding where/when cadets can have sex. Most of the false allegations come from an incident where one of the two parties is trying to get him or herself out of trouble for breaking the rules.
No one is saying females shouldn't report if something happens. At least for my post, I was suggesting that by getting rid of the rules that get people in trouble, you'll get rid of the majority of the false reports that occur when someone is trying to get out of trouble.You have to understand that that is the same reason that most females elect not to report. For fear that because something happened in the barracks, or they were drinking it would cause them to become in worse trouble than before, even if it was not their fault that something happened in the first place.
No, but you have to admit that a disproportionate number of punishments are handed out to males, especially in questionable situations. See the story that started this thread.This thread makes me angry because I'm getting the vibe that females at the academy are out to get the males. So justice at west point is reserved for males falsely accused? Or what about the females that never came forward because of chain of command, or because females are treated as if they are lying?
I 100% agree. Forcing those of us who aren't criminals to sit through hours of SHARP training isn't making us any less inclined to commit crimes. On the flip side, it isn't deterring anyone who would commit a crime.The bottom line is that there are criminals everywhere. West Point is no exception.
I can assure you as a female there are cases exactly like the one above, and as much as I can laugh at locker room talk, this is somehting interesting to read.
http://jezebel.com/butt-plugs-and-*****es-the-emails-west-point-doesnt-w-511519204
you can see for yourself what is acceptable. From reading the email chain here on campus this posting is not over announcing.
845something said:Your blasé attitude is a virtual dereliction of duty
robinhood17 said:If we all took everything someone said seriously, we would be in a better academy. No one should have to decipher if what another person said was serious. "I'm going to kill myself" and "I'm going to kill myself" sound the same over text. So why is it that people think it is okay to throw in a laugh afterwords and it turns out "All OK" ?
SHARP Training is a waste of time because the current training focuses on all the reasons why it is bad for me to rape someone. If you want SHARP training to be effective, how about you bring in someone from JAG, commanders who have been through the process on both the victim-support side and as the authority over the suspect? Teach me how to properly adjudicate the crime, not why I shouldn't do it. If you are a sexual predator, no amount of powerpoint is going to change that.If you seriously believe that sharp training is a waste of time, I lose a little faith in the corps understanding of how widespread this issue is. It's been repeated a thousand times that this issue is General Odierno's top priority.
How else will they get it through thick college kids skulls that they should pay attention to how they act?
No matter what happens, the cadets at west point can't escape. Realize that. In the "big" army you can request a unit transfer while the investigation happens. Here, not so much. You have classes, athletics, graduation requirements to fulfill. You can't escape someone that is in your academic classes, someone who is in your barracks building, in your company chain of command, or passes by you in Arvin every morning.
Knowing all of that, would you report??
Society has a fault for taking things too far. What starts as "plenty of dirty jokes" turns into dirty gestures, which turns into unwanted contact, and then unwanted assault. Where are we supposed to say "THAT right there, that crossed the sharp line"?
If we all took everything someone said seriously, we would be in a better academy. No one should have to decipher if what another person said was serious. "I'm going to kill myself" and "I'm going to kill myself" sound the same over text. So why is it that people think it is okay to throw in a laugh afterwords and it turns out "All OK" ?