KP least competitive service academy?

for what it's worth,
i have many friends that are enlisted in every branch. specifically in the navy, i have yet to talk to one that admired their JOs from USNA. however, the few enlisted friends that i have that have worked for a KPer were shocked at how they handled situations and their knowledge of ship handling.
when it comes to running a ship, KP has the upper hand. i'd be willing to put money on saying that if you take the top 20 mids from navy and put them on a blacked out ship and told them to get it up and running again, it wouldn't happen. however, i'm willing to bet you take 20 KPers in their 1/C year and put them in the same situation, that ship would be operational shortly thereafter.
i would say that even after graduation, if you never see a ship again you'd still be head and shoulders above your peers in any market. we perform under pressure. and we do it well.

quick story a friend of mine that graduated last year told me. he was doing a cruise on a navy small-boy. anyways, they were going through the panama canal. the locks closed and all of a sudden the ship gained 6 inches on the draft. my friend was on the bridge and saw everyone freak out because the draft changed so quickly. he went over to the officer on watch and was very calm and just informed him that it was due to freshwater allowances. the cadet was told to shut up and go away while the officer called the port engineer to explain the situation. he briefly mentioned what my friend said, to which the port engineer told the officer "listen to the cadet." after that, he was awarded for his knowledge and the CO made it known to those working with the cadets that said cadets knew more about running a ship than any other group on the ship so if they say something, listen.

granted i cannot validate the story because i was not there, but that's the story.

a story that i have from personal experience was at fleet week my 3/C year. i was able to get a full tour of the engine room on an LHD and talked with the EOOW and got to poke around a bit. the EOOW could not answer a lot of questions i had about why they had the plant set the way they did because he did not have an engineering background. unfortunately, i don't think he'd ever turned a wrench. i would venture to say that a KP grad officer would've easily been able to explain the confusing elements of how the plant was laid up.

also for what it's worth, i don't know of anyone that's graduated KP in the time that i've been here that went for a pilot slot (and was qualified) that didn't get a slot.
 
Bruno,

Sorry, gotta jump in here - " . . . I find it hard to believe that anyone from the Command Master Chief down to the lowest Seaman Apprentice would argue that a Junior Officer is not better served by being well trained on the technical details of his/her job."

I can guarantee you being well trained vs being allowed to get ones hands dirty and participate in repairs are two entirely different matters. Officers are required to be college educated so they can analytically evaluate, take inputs and choose a proper course of action based on all the info available. Naval Officers supervise and lead. Let's leave LDO's, Warrant Officers, SpecOps, Marines and Army out of the discussion because they are a horse of a different color. If a pump in the main machinery room is taken down for planned maintenance, the Chief and "troops" would love nothing more for the Div O to come down and get his hands dirty. If the pump is critical, it breaks and is needed back on line ASAP, the Div O isn't going to be allowed anywhere near the work bench. Being well trained, understanding the problem and being able to explain it to the Capt, yes - via maintenance manuals and diagrams.

"Ya think that Hyman Rickover would buy into that argument? Certainly the Submarine Force believes that officers need to be technically proficient in the details as well as in the big picture items."

You have obviously never worked for a Nuke. Yes, they are technically proficient. Nuke Power qualification program is a ball buster and one learns every aspect of running a Nuke plant, but I don't think that's down to the nuts and bolts of physically repairing machinery. I can tell you the Chief tells the Div O the repair is complete, the DO goes back and visually checks/inspects the repair. The DO goes to the Department Head, the DH goes back and visually checks it, same with the XO and the CO. Each one will visually confirm what they are told.

DW
 
Is2Day4Him,

USNA vs KP - sorry, your comparing apples and oranges. The two have totally different missions. KP prepares it's graduates to be 3rd Mates in the Merchant Marine Service. As I previously said, KP'ers have their license and are expected to be able to go aboard any ship and perform the duties of 3rd Mate Deck or Engineering.

The Mission of the Naval Academy is "to graduate leaders who are dedicated to a career of naval service and have potential for future development in mind and character to assume the highest responsibilities of command, citizenship and government."

As to your enlisted friends experiences with Naval Academy Grads . . . . everyone has a different personality. Could it have been the Grad was trying to learn something and getting in your friends hair?? Could he have been questioning what and why he was doing something. Conversly, the Academy grad could have been a total idiot, unfortunately some do make it through the program.

There is no argument that KP'ers are more knowledgeable and better trained in the operations of a ship than Naval Academy grads. That is not the mission of the Naval Academy.

Dave W
 
Sam, first off, landlocked states cannot give their nominations away. The one thing different about KP is that YOU MUST have a nomination from your state and/or congressional district. So, if North Dakota does not use all of their nominations they cannot give it to an applicant from Virginia.

2nd, my son went to AIM several years ago. He applied to USNA, USCGA & USMMA. He was accepted to all, but he took his appointment to USMMA, for the very reasons you are stating......options. He knew he wanted to do "something" involving ships and water, but was not sure exactly. He's still leaning strong towards Coast Guard and is a systems engineering major at KP. He's also a member of the KP Guardians, which is the CG club there. They travel all over and visit the various CG bases and learn a lot about the workings of the CG.

By the way, 45 from the graduating class of 2009 took active duty commissions in the Coast Guard.
 
My last post on this thread - I promise

RE:
zonker said:
Hmm. Just a quick point for Sam...
Even ...

I guess what they are saying is "If you are GENUINELY interested, cowboy up. If not, (and this goes for EVERYONE considering KP), don't half-heartedly FILL a slot if you're not committed to graduating from KP. You may be knocking someone else who IS genuinely committed, but in a more competitive/populous area..
Click to expand...

What he said.

Sam re your statement:

"Zonker:
I was wondering, though, why the land locked states are paying for KP if they are giving their nominations away to other states? It seems like a waste of their constituents money if their children are not interested in said academy, does it not?"

State taxes and State's do not fund or pay for KP in anyway, however, some Federal funds through Marad as well as in some cases the Department of Education may partially fund particular aspects of State Maritime Academies and their programs (e.g. School Ships, etc.).

Also if as you say you are pursuing KP as a fallback to your first choice, I wish you luck. That said relative your challenge with the DODMERB visual acuity requirements, you are a young person and you only get one set of eyes, I hope your determination to pursue this option would never drive you to take a risk with them you might later regret. Whatever you do in this regard my advice is only do so after careful consideration and consultation with your opthemologist.

Acta Non Verba and wishing you Fair Winds and Following Seas.
 
I didn't make myself very clear. So, if I added to confusion, my apologies. Gee, I hope THIS clarification is better...

2011 is correct, Nominations can't be transferred between states. I wasn't trying to say they could.
Your state controls the Nominations for the people of that state, and that state alone. Acceptance Slots, however, are filled by the Academy-- and those are what I meant 'wouldn't go wasted'.

Go to the other side of the KP Admissions table. There will be 300 or so Acceptance Slots(Seats, if you will) to fill. The matching begins. Your state, cannot nominate a different candidate from another state.

If you were qualified, nominated, but only halfheartedly wanted to go to KP, think again. Don't go with "I'll see if I'll like it"; You WON'T. It's Tough/Hard/Fast/Demanding/Restrictive.. just like the rest of the Academies. You're going to have to be determined to GRADUATE, not just attend.

The Slot(Seat) you would have taken won't go UNFILLED. You state doesn't have a rack reserved for it that nobody will use, just because you didn't. Your state doesn't have control over an unused Slot(Seat). Nominations-yes, Acceptance Slots-no. It's not like Interstate Carbon Credit Swapping, or selling vacant State Senate seats in Illinois :) .

But the Academy MAY choose to fill that (now) extra Slot(Seat) in a way to balance the Class --- to offer a really determined kid from somewhere populous HIS chance because now they can have one extra athletic slot, or host an international maritime exchange, or or or. It gives them a little bit more flexibility in classifying the student count categories, most(all?) of which is mandated.
-----
For vision, my eye doctor concurs: "You've only got one pair of eyes. Don't be in a hurry to tinker with them"
 
If a word to the wise is sufficient

Then a youtube video of Capt Johnson's speech connected the dots; put the bumpers down at the bowling alley; led a horse to water.

Even I could understand.

That was awesome.

I am SOLD.

Least competitive? How about most rewarding!
 
Capt Johnson ... one of straightest-shooting, most inspiring speakers! Words from the heart. Laying it out plain. Bravo Zulu, sir.
 
Is2day4him said:
as far as "other training", and no offense to the USCGA, but the Eagle's got nothing on what we do at sea. that'd be like comparing AA high school ball to the NY Yankees.

i guess i say all that to say this: if you want unique, hands-on training, don't waste your time looking elsewhere. i have friends at USNA, USMA, USAFA, and USCGA, and none of them have done the kinds of things i've not only been able to do, but been required to do.
Click to expand...



For the first point you made that I've quoted, I generally agree EAGLE, AKA the Dirty Bird, has nothing on an merchant vessel, except history and a knack for getting into trouble during Nav. Detail. As supported by my first statement, USMMA gives you some outstanding experiences that you would be hard pressed to find at another school. As for the AA ball v. Yankees, first, the Yankees have more money than USMMA could ever hope for. Second, you would base that statement solely on EAGLE, a vessel i was on for a grand total of 1 week. You would overlook the 5 weeks during 3/c summer or the 10 weeks during 1/c summer. Now, I know 15 weeks pales in comparison to the sea year at USMMA, but the activities packed into those 15 weeks can be very rewarding, and can surpass a typical transit of a bulk/tanker/cruiseline/etc. I do not know many USMMA cadets who can say they interdicted migrants, stopped drug runners, etc. The ones I can think of, did so while on a U.S. Coast Guard cutter. I'm sure there are some cadets who have been part of rescues, especially in association with AMVER.

As for your second statement, yes, I agree USMMA is an EXCELLENT place for hands on training, and experiences, but don't muddy down the message with the "no one else does" stuff. I would think enough people on here can name a few experiences that USMMA typically would not compete with.

That being said, I looked at USMMA, stayed overnight, and enjoyed it. I may have gone there had I not been 100% set on Coast Guard. I can say that the people I work with in the Coast Guard from USMMA are ALL great people. I eat regularly with one of them during lunch and another transfered to a unit in Kuwait. Great people, great school. It sets you up to compete for direct commissions into other branches. I would caution you though, those direct commissions are not automatic. I can name more than one KP grad who put in to direct commission in the Coast Guard, but was denied. It's important to understand that.

All in all, I've been impressed by the cadets of USMMA (no to include their athletes... :wink:) and by graduates of KP that I have worked with or am currently working with.
 
Thanks guys--all of you. You're helping me out a LOT.

LITS--great advice as usual:thumb:
 
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