No More Public AirShows

[LineInTheSand]

I'm not surprised.

Milton Friedman said it best. It's human nature to spend other peoples money differently that the way you spend your own. That's the government as well as in corporate America. The difference is the government is 1000x bigger (and a 1000x more waste).

See Milton's common sense definition. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RDMdc5r5z8

The dog sled sponsorship is fairly in expensive, but I do wonder how it made it through.

 

[Christcorp]

Bullet. I'm not disagreeing at all with what you or others are saying. The sequester and the furloughs are definitely real. REAL people are being affected. I understand this totally. It IS REAL.

My point is simply; it's "Politics". And as such, I am more optimistic that the legislative and executive branch will compromise. That's politics. We all know that the sequester is a) Insignificant in the true sense of reducing the debt and saving money; and b) Inappropriate because it's an "Across the Board" cut instead of concentrating on waste.

The sequester is suppose to save $85 million this fiscal year. Actual projection is closer to $45 million. Yet, in the month of February, (Last Month), the government BORROWS (Not spent, but borrowed and increased the debt) another $240 BILLION. In other words, they borrowed 5X MORE in 1 month, than they'll SAVE in 9 months through the sequester.

I know very well that the sequester is real and that it's affecting real people. These aren't tv or political sound bites. But the truth is, the government is more worried about the politics than they are the actual economics and the people affected. I have not said once that the sequester isn't real or that people aren't being affected by it. Simply trying to get people to realize that the sequester isn't in place because the government is actually trying to save money. It's in place strictly for political reasons. On BOTH SIDES.

 

[kinnem]

I guess the USCG-sponsored dog-sled team at the Iitarod is in trouble now....

No, I am not kidding.

Some of us have long suspected that the Coast Guard was going to the dogs! I'm just kidding gang. No flames please!

 

[Bullet]

Bullet. I'm not disagreeing at all with what you or others are saying. The sequester and the furloughs are definitely real. REAL people are being affected. I understand this totally. It IS REAL.

My point is simply; it's "Politics". And as such, I am more optimistic that the legislative and executive branch will compromise. That's politics. We all know that the sequester is a) Insignificant in the true sense of reducing the debt and saving money; and b) Inappropriate because it's an "Across the Board" cut instead of concentrating on waste.

The sequester is suppose to save $85 million this fiscal year. Actual projection is closer to $45 million. Yet, in the month of February, (Last Month), the government BORROWS (Not spent, but borrowed and increased the debt) another $240 BILLION. In other words, they borrowed 5X MORE in 1 month, than they'll SAVE in 9 months through the sequester.

I know very well that the sequester is real and that it's affecting real people. These aren't tv or political sound bites. But the truth is, the government is more worried about the politics than they are the actual economics and the people affected. I have not said once that the sequester isn't real or that people aren't being affected by it. Simply trying to get people to realize that the sequester isn't in place because the government is actually trying to save money. It's in place strictly for political reasons. On BOTH SIDES.

I hear you, brother. And like I said before, I completely agree that the US budget, to INCLUDE the defense budget, needs to be cut, DRASTICALLY. (And I think you meant to say Billions, not millions, in what the sequester is cutting). It also has to be SMARTLY, which is not what the sequester is doing. (I also have HUGE issues with how the DoD leadership handled this, ignoring it to the very end versus coming up with a plan that tells the Civilian leadership: with these cuts, you HAVE to change what you expect us to be able to do. We no longer at the point where we can do the same with less).

Personally, I'm staring at a 20% pay cut over the next 6 months square in the face. I get it: mission does come first. It does gall me a little that the "company line" from the leadership I've been hearing for the past 25 years has always been something like: Our people matter, Year of the Family, Taking care of our people is important. Like I said, I get it: mission comes first. We're going to struggle, but we'll do it. What galls me even more however, is that the memos we get from the leadership tells me (besides, "Sorry Folks") that one of the things I should be doing now (6 weeks before the furloughs kick in) is that I should "plan ahead and put some money aside." My reply to that: Why? YOU didn't!

 

[aseanag]

CC, I think your one of the best here. Really do. Your honesty and insight are invaluable to the folks on here looking for answers.

But I think you need to do a little deeper looking here beyond the 30 second sound bites and "outrage" headlines that MANY so-called news sites, on both sides of the aisle, use to spark interest in their sites or newscast. Remember, they have to pay bills as well, and know that using "news" of this type generates interest, thus generates advertising dollars. There is usually more to the story than what is in those sound-bites and outrage headlines.

In this case, Yes, the Government is still advertising for jobs the day after the sequester took effect. How dare they! It's an outrage! Doesn't this prove the whole sequester dog-and-pony show is a SCAM? Weeeeeell, not so much, if you care to look into the issue deeper, and think about it.

You surely understand how the Government Bureaucracy is slow to react to daily events, right? On 28 February, there was NO hiring freeze, nothing officially signed, not one directive telling bureaucracy to stop doing what they were doing. And why was this? Well, say, by some miracle, Congress DID get off its collective behind and solved the issue? What IF they DID cancel all the hiring process steps before hand? A process that takes MONTHS from start to finish. No, this is some bureaucrat telling his people "until we get something official, keep the process moving". Advertising is just the first step, and when the official directive comes down (which also takes days in this bureaucracy), they will start the hiring freeze. Please remember, this process takes (usually) 6 - 8 months, and that means folks putting in applications now won't be on the job until most likely September / October, AFTER the sequester is complete.

I can get outraged watching Fox News and reading Drudge as much as the next guy. Then I remind myself there is always more to the story than the outrageous headline or 30 second sound bite, and if I'm really interested, I'll look into the details of the bigger story. On this site, where we're trying to introduce young men and women the best way to not only become an officer, but to ACT like one, that is a very important lesson.

And in one of the biggest coincidences I've ever been a part of (almost gave me proof their is a "Higher Power" in its level of "I can't believe this just happened to me".); guess who I bumped into in the hallway just outside of my office on Monday just after I posted on this whole "cancelled airshow at the AFA graduation" thread (some 10 pages ago)? None other than Lt Gen Gould himself! Old boss of mine, and I've bumped into him from time to time since (the most recent being at his house at the Graduation 2 years ago). We talked for a while, catching up on our lives. He poked fun of my goatee, I poked fun of his soon to be out of a job status. And you know what we DIDN'T bring up, even though it was front and center in my thoughts? The Graduation airshow! Why? Because I realize the bigger picture -- he has much more important things to worry about, such as furloughing a bunch of his staff, including professors. In the big scheme of things, airshows are just window dressing, and the real concern needs to be about the mission.

I state again what I stated 10 pages back: does it stink that airshows are cancelled? Sure. Is it as high a priority as accomplisig the primary mission of both the AFA and our service? Not on a long shot....

FYI,
The parents group have setup a 501(c) to finance the graduation flyover. One parent has given $1000. Also if General Gould has not heard he will. PM me if you need additional information.

 

[kinnem]

I hear you, brother. And like I said before, I completely agree that the US budget, to INCLUDE the defense budget, needs to be cut, DRASTICALLY. (And I think you meant to say Billions, not millions, in what the sequester is cutting). It also has to be SMARTLY, which is not what the sequester is doing. (I also have HUGE issues with how the DoD leadership handled this, ignoring it to the very end versus coming up with a plan that tells the Civilian leadership: with these cuts, you HAVE to change what you expect us to be able to do. We no longer at the point where we can do the same with less).

Personally, I'm staring at a 20% pay cut over the next 6 months square in the face. I get it: mission does come first. It does gall me a little that the "company line" from the leadership I've been hearing for the past 25 years has always been something like: Our people matter, Year of the Family, Taking care of our people is important. Like I said, I get it: mission comes first. We're going to struggle, but we'll do it. What galls me even more however, is that the memos we get from the leadership tells me (besides, "Sorry Folks") that one of the things I should be doing now (6 weeks before the furloughs kick in) is that I should "plan ahead and put some money aside." My reply to that: Why? YOU didn't!

I definitely agree with your points here Bullet. I was aghast to find that DoD had done no planning for this. I would at least have had a team in a back room preparing a plan even if I thought that the sequester would never come to pass. Anyone who had been through Management 100 or 101 would know to do this. All Panetta did was complain about how bad it would be but took no action to prepare. One even wonders how he really knew how bad it would be without the planning? This was (yet another) failure in leadership.

 

[Bundy]

Actually, $667 million / year in total military ad spending really isn't too unusual of a number compared to major corporations. The biggest advertiser in the U.S., Procter & Gamble, spends $5 billion / year with revenues of $82.6 billion (http://www.nbcnews.com/business/buy-it-now-americas-biggest-advertisers-887754)

I'm guessing that the "revenues" of all branches of our military are likely multiple times P&G's revenues. Thus, for an organization whose mission is the very security of our nation, spending $667 million a year on trying to attract quality individuals to an all-volunteer force may not be all that out of line when compared to the "real world".

 

[EDelahanty]

FYI,
The parents group have setup a 501(c) to finance the graduation flyover. One parent has given $1000. Also if General Gould has not heard he will. PM me if you need additional information.

Does this mean donors will get a tax deduction? Well, if it has to be this way, it's better than the following:

Announcer: And now, distinguished guests, parents and graduates, please direct your gaze skyward to behold the 2013 Fabulous Thunderbirds Flyover, brought to you by Whyams Dog Food, Old Slice Aftershave, and Mr. Cleanliness.

 

[Dad]

Announcer: And now, distinguished guests, parents and graduates, please direct your gaze skyward to behold the 2013 Fabulous Thunderbirds Flyover, brought to you by Whyams Dog Food, Old Slice Aftershave, and Mr. Cleanliness.

 

[Pima]

I am curious about the comment, Gen. Gould will hear about it and the intended goal.

My only thing that comes to my mind is that Gen. Gould maybe the Supe, but he still has to run it through AFHQ. He is not the final word. There is a chain of command he even has to follow. He doesn't answer to a board like a traditional college as a dean, he answers to the CSAF.

My assumption would be that the ceremony is AFHQ's decision, and there maybe a reg in the system that says NO donations over X amount of dollars will be allowed for any official AF function.

They would do this to make sure there is no appearance of favoritism. I.E. instead of Wyams...this is brought to you by LOCKHEED. Open this door, how do you shut it for other things later on? For example: There could be a parent that is the VP at Raytheon, and belongs to the parent's association. He gets Raytheon to donate money, a large sum that is bundled using small contributions from multiple donors.

I think it is a great idea, but before you start raising money, wouldn't it be better to contact Gould now, instead of if he hasn't heard he will?

Wouldn't it be better to talk to them 1st, than spin your wheels going nowhere?

What if Gould says, by law we can't accept any donation? Did you just get potential donors hyped up for nothing?

JMPO and I can be 1000% wrong.

Good luck, I think it is great you guys are trying every avenue possible, but I still stand by my position. The flyover is a fleeting moment, the walking across the stage, the taking the oath, having someone you love pin on the bars, and reporting for ADAF are the real memories that stay with you 1 yr, 2, yr, 5 yr, 10 yrs, 25 yrs later, especially when those loved ones starting leaving this earth.

Our DS is a prime example of that. His grandmother died 6 months after his commissioning while he was in TX, he could not make it home for her funeral. His last memory of her was the picture being taken at his commissioning of him, his grandmother and grandfather. I know, I know, he was not an AFA grad, but that is not the point, the point is the memories that matter now only 9 months later.

 

[JMC0759]

Actually, $667 million / year in total military ad spending really isn't too unusual of a number compared to major corporations. The biggest advertiser in the U.S., Procter & Gamble, spends $5 billion / year with revenues of $82.6 billion (http://www.nbcnews.com/business/buy-it-now-americas-biggest-advertisers-887754)

I'm guessing that the "revenues" of all branches of our military are likely multiple times P&G's revenues. Thus, for an organization whose mission is the very security of our nation, spending $667 million a year on trying to attract quality individuals to an all-volunteer force may not be all that out of line when compared to the "real world".

Actually, 667 millon does buy allot of mini footballs, lanyards, frisbees, hats and t-shirts and assorted CPS (cheap plastic s***). I just question the return on the investment. People that want to have a career in the miltary or are leaning in that direction would probably still join even without the 25 million the National Guard spends to have their logo on a race car every year.

What other federal/local agencies have to sponsor sporting events/have giveway items in order to attract quality personnell? FBI, CIA, ATF, DEA, your local police and fire departments? All these agencies are involved in your security in one way or another but they don't have to sponsor anything to get good people.

 

[EDelahanty]

Actually, 667 millon does buy allot of mini footballs, lanyards, frisbees, hats and t-shirts and assorted CPS (cheap plastic s***). I just question the return on the investment. People that want to have a career in the miltary or are leaning in that direction would probably still join even without the 25 million the National Guard spends to have their logo on a race car every year.

What other federal/local agencies have to sponsor sporting events/have giveway items in order to attract quality personnell? FBI, CIA, ATF, DEA, your local police and fire departments? All these agencies are involved in your security in one way or another but they don't have to sponsor anything to get good people.

Look at the good will earned by the US Postal Service for the tens of $ millions it spent sponsoring Lance Armstrong's rolling pharmacopeia.

 

[LineInTheSand]

Look at the good will earned by the US Postal Service for the tens of $ millions it spent sponsoring Lance Armstrong's rolling pharmacopeia.

Of course, it may be fair to remember that the Postal Service actually makes money for the United States, but Congress raides it.

Also, I use "flat rate" boxes entirely because of their ad campaign.

 

[Christcorp]

I think the post office is a joke. As for them making money for the government, that's simply not true. They can't even fund themselves. In 2006 congress started funding the postal retiree health care with more that $5 BILLION per year. The post office is too expensive. No tracking worth a crap. "By the time you see the true tacking, the package has already arrived". Stereotypical government employees where there's always a long line to ship a package, but 2-3 employees sitting/standing around doing nothing.

I'll take FEDEX any day of the week. As for letters, I guess they do OK. Hopefully, everyone will soon be on Email and ALL financial transactions can be done online. Then, there won't be any need for the US Post Office. I wasteful government agency down; 194,593 more to go.

 

[LineInTheSand]

I think the post office is a joke. As for them making money for the government, that's simply not true. They can't even fund themselves. In 2006 congress started funding the postal retiree health care with more that $5 BILLION per year. The post office is too expensive. No tracking worth a crap. "By the time you see the true tacking, the package has already arrived". Stereotypical government employees where there's always a long line to ship a package, but 2-3 employees sitting/standing around doing nothing.

I'll take FEDEX any day of the week. As for letters, I guess they do OK. Hopefully, everyone will soon be on Email and ALL financial transactions can be done online. Then, there won't be any need for the US Post Office. I wasteful government agency down; 194,593 more to go.

It simply IS true that it can fund itself (if Congress wasn't raiding its revenue), and unlike the Air Force is actually provided for in the U.S. Constitution. "People doing nothing" and is what you see on a billion dollar base across the country.

Congress pulls money from the Postal Service, by law, and there's not much they can do about it.

 

[Bullet]

It simply IS true that it can fund itself (if Congress wasn't raiding its revenue), and unlike the Air Force is actually provided for in the U.S. Constitution. "People doing nothing" and is what you see on a billion dollar base across the country.

Congress pulls money from the Postal Service, by law, and there's not much they can do about it.

Link to your statement that the US Postal Service would be solvent if Congress didn't raid its coffers, please.

From my understanding, the issue is their operating costs continue to negatively impact revenue, with the continuing reduction in letters being mailed and bloated retirement obligations being primary factors.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/16/u...ce-reports-a-nearly-16-billion-loss.html?_r=0

Hard to rob a piggy bank that only has IOUs in it.

Now, if you would amend your statement to the fact that Congress won't allow the USPS to make smart business decisions and adjust HOW they operate (like cancelling mal delivery on Saturdays), then I would agree with you.

And my apologies that the authors of the US Constition were clairvoyant enough to see that 150 years after they drafted the Constitution, the US military would be reliant on this new fangled heavier-than-air combat capability. I blame Jefferson for not having the guts to put imagination on what could be in the future into elegant words and policy. I expect we'll be seeing the same song years from now when our sharks-with-laser-beams Corps and X-wing BattleStar Force is also not mentioned in the Constitution.

 

[Pima]

Okay, this has to go down as the most classic off the rails divert.

No more airshows...AFA...and now we are at the USPS system!

My thing is aseanag, let us know what Gen. Gould says.

 

[aseanag]

Okay, this has to go down as the most classic off the rails divert.

No more airshows...AFA...and now we are at the USPS system!

My thing is aseanag, let us know what Gen. Gould says.

I will let you know the answer we get from Gen. Gould. BTW the Blue Angels have extended there season and will not stop perfomances until June 1st. They will be performing at USNA 2013 graduations. Obama will be there speaker. Many are hoping for the same extension for the Thunderbirds season so they can flyover for USAFA's 2013 graduation.

I know many don't support this cause, but for those of you in the background there is still hope.

 

[Jcleppe]

Ok, so let me see if I have this straight.

The AFA is cutting civilian Professors to 4 days a week, causing not only a cut in pay for these professors but what I am sure will be a class scheduling nightmare for some cadets. Not to mention the decrease in time the professors will be able to spend with cadets one on one.

I would imagine that if civilian professors days are being cut, other civilian jobs such as maintenance, grounds, security, and administration will be cut as well.

Most of these cuts sound like they will effect the day to day life of the many cadets.

So with the loss of professor hours, and other services, some parents of AFA cadets have decided that setting up 501-c to raise money for a fly over at graduation is the most important issue of the day. I guess when you think about it, why not, after all these cadets wil be gone this year and the remaining cadets will be left to deal with these issues. Who knows, maybe someone will start a 501-c for them someday.

Just glad to see we all have our priorities in the right place.

 

[aseanag]

Ok, so let me see if I have this straight.

The AFA is cutting civilian Professors to 4 days a week, causing not only a cut in pay for these professors but what I am sure will be a class scheduling nightmare for some cadets. Not to mention the decrease in time the professors will be able to spend with cadets one on one.

I would imagine that if civilian professors days are being cut, other civilian jobs such as maintenance, grounds, security, and administration will be cut as well.

Most of these cuts sound like they will effect the day to day life of the many cadets.

So with the loss of professor hours, and other services, some parents of AFA cadets have decided that setting up 501-c to raise money for a fly over at graduation is the most important issue of the day. I guess when you think about it, why not, after all these cadets wil be gone this year and the remaining cadets will be left to deal with these issues. Who knows, maybe someone will start a 501-c for them someday.

I believe USNA has also cut back there civilian professors to 4 days a week. I would definately support any and all ways to keep the professors working a full schedule.

I am not saying that AFA flyover is the most important issure of the day. It is just one of many issues of the day. I will always support the AFA even when my Cadet is long gone.

This is for all the viewers lurking in the background and willing to support this cause.

I am so proud of how are parents have come together to support this cause.