Nomination preference for athletes

Discussion in 'Naval Academy - USNA' started by bravemom62, Jan 24, 2013.

  1. bravemom62

    bravemom62 Member

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    "Students must be nominated to attend the Naval Academy. This nomination can come from several sources, including members of Congress, the president, the vice president, Navy reserve officers and children of military personnel killed in action. (Athlete name) said his nomination was part of the recruiting offer Navy made to him."- This is from a press release regarding a football player that verbally committed to navy earlier this week. I understand that the process is not the same for recruited athletes, however was surprised by the blatant admission that his nomination was part of his offer. Also, it is frustrating that he could actually complete his application at this late hour, when all of these other candidates worked for weeks or months completing theirs. Oh well, it is what is.....a crazy, confusing, and ambiguous process that is impossible to figure out!
     
  2. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    Not sure why you think he just completed his application since you didn't include a link to the article you're referencing. However, it is complete prior to the deadline so it would meet that requirement. You're also assuming he hasn't spent significant time on it (again unless there is something saying so in the article). He may not have spent a lot of time on it but its not evident from the post. There are several folks one doesn't think of as a nomination source because you can't apply for them, but the Superintendent and the Sec Def can nominate people as well which is probably the case here, so it's not coming out of the pool us ordinary folks can apply for. Finally, although I certainly understand your frustration, isn't this the way it works at any Division I school? Nothing new here. Not saying it's "fair" but they play by the same rules all colleges do in that regard... and he still has to serve his Active Duty commitment.... its not like he gets off "scott free".
     
  3. bravemom62

    bravemom62 Member

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    You are right, I should not assume because we all know what that makes out of you and me! I also understands that D-1 athletics follow a different set of rules everywhere, just makes you pause when thinking about the goal of the academies. Lastly, this kid seems like a great kid from a great family, who will serve our country well, definitely nothing personal against him. Thanks for the response....great points and reminder that life is not "fair", as I've drummed into my kids their whole lives!
     
  4. Whistle Pig

    Whistle Pig Banned

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    Wrong drum-beat, as you're now learning. Everything is political.

    Today, we often hear the magtoic mantra of freedom of "equal opportunity" for all morphing in "equal outcome" which by it's nature, requires "engineering." And as you're watching, sometimes that further morphs into "unequal outcomes" and uneven playing fields.

    Hang in there. And trust that despite some harsh realities, your life-lessons will continue to guide your worthy offspring well.
     
  5. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    Concur with kinnem, its not like he didn't do his application, nomination, DoDMERB, etc just like every other applicant. He may have completed his application months ago or the day of the deadline, we do not know that (from what was posted above). I was a recruited athlete. I filled out my paperwork like everyone else and met all the deadlines. So does every recruited athlete. I am sure this young man did too. The coaching staff guided me through the process. Yes it was different then going through a BGO, but because of recruiting rules, I was not allowed to use my BGO. I honestly didn't even know what a BGO was until the coach asked me if I had talked to him (the amount of info kids have in applying is astronimcal compared to what we had).

    More than likely the team has deemed this young man as one of their hightest recruits and therefore was willing to use one of the mentioned nominations on him. Is it fair some athletic teams get some of those Supt's noms to use? Probably not. But they use these noms for alot of people. He may have applied for other nominations and may receive or has received one of those. If that is the case admissions does the numbers games just like they do for any other appointee as they move things around to round out the class. The coaching staffs have no influence on congressional nominations. Saying they are a recruited athlete in the interview could help them or maybe not.

    The newspaper is giving some general info. You mention this young man is a great kid. I know nothing about him, but its not like every D-1 athlete at Navy is not up to snuff and got in because they are an athlete. I mean didn't Navy football have a kid with perfect SATs and one of the highest GPAs in his class? The year before they had a 1st team academic all american I believe. I think player may have been Brigade Commander one year? I am not saying it is all fair by any means. We hear just as many bad stories about star QBs getting multiple honor offenses, etc. or an athlete below par making it out of NAPS. But let's not group all athletes into one category one way or another.
     
  6. Whistle Pig

    Whistle Pig Banned

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    Anecdotes abound. Like noses, we all have one. Still you're right, all athletes should not be painted with the same label. There are many who are upright Midshipmen. And there's a reason why we always hear about those rare bird athletes who are stellar performers, compliments of USNA news releases. That's why we have sports info directors. It's called PR.

    And there are way more reasons why those SIDs never announce the bad news or the stats about those "red-shirted" (in fact we never even hear that term at USNA, do we.) NAPSter football and lacrosse players. Those stories invariably require local journalists filing FOIA subpoenas or a whole lot of investigative reporting to ferret out the bad news. We never hear about all the "recruits" who are stock-piled at NAPS do we? Only those coming to USNA.

    Hey, it is what it is. None of us can change that. It's the nature of Chet Gladchuck's charge to make something out of Navy's D-I program despite the severe limitations.

    But please, don't try and paint a happy face on this one. It's totally disingenuous, misleading, and insulting. We "get" that all Navy football, basketball, and lacrosse players are not charity cases in terms of appointment. And we know a whole lot more are there as a simple function of their athletic giftedness.
     
  7. John41057

    John41057 Member

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    Athlete Recruitment

    Hi
    I agree that athletes often get a push not only at the regular universities, but at the service academies as well. My DS is one who benefited from his sports ability. Air force came after him hard, fast, and often. But as I have mentioned it was never in doubt that he still needed to meet or exceed the USAFA admission requirements. (this was made clear by the coach) My DS not only had to compete year round at an extreme level, not only playing ability but dedication to the academy requirements as well. So for instance while in Atlanta for three weeks participating in the highest tournament in the nation (which we won) he also was taking two college classes on line. In fact he took 18 units of college between his sophomore and junior year to get his GPA where it needed to be. His college GPA was 3.95 all while either taking regular high school or traveling for his sport. The dedication and drive to succeed that these athletes are able to bring to the table is exactly what the academy is looking for in their students. Please remember that just because the appointment goes to an athlete does not mean he or she worked any less hard. In fact the work is often double that of just an academic (non-athlete) student. I will bet that most of not all academy drafted athletes still maintain a 3.4 or higher GPA + + + + extras.
    Just imagine how much extra time goes into high level sports, then come home and apply your tired body to another several hours of study and homework. Most high level athletes do their sport year round. It is not just a season in high school. It is a commitment to excellence in all they do. Also the cost to the parents for all these years of sports is enough to have paid for their college at many universities.
    Regards
    John
     
  8. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

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    Let's not make this about football. The bottom line is that, when USNA really wants someone who -- for whatever reason -- is unable to obtain a nom on his/her own, USNA can give that person a Supe's nom. However, there are only 50 of them -- period -- and they do not all go to football players. I've had two candidates over the years receive them -- one was a recruited athlete (not in football or basketball) who was already in college and became known to the coach only after the application was already submitted and I suggested the person contact the coach and the other was not a recruited athlete at all.

    In this case, it is unclear from the OP's post whether this candidate had secured a nom on his own or not. If not, see above.

    As to completing the application early or on time, I've had candidates start their applications in January and been accepted. While it is desirable to complete them early, there is no requirement to do so to be accepted.

    I'm not naive enough to believe that being a recruited football athlete helps. But, honestly, so does being a native Arabic speaker.
     
  9. GoSox

    GoSox Member

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    I will add to this (recurring) debate that plenty of "borderline" mids end up making excellent officers. I know several Marines officers who have been outstanding combat-tested leaders although they may not have taken the classroom aspect or even the military side of USNA (which is often things like room inspections) as seriously as they took athletics. Any USNA grad has seen borderline mids who can drive you crazy, but once you get out into the Fleet/Corps and see some folks who may not have been great students but are great officers, the "recruited athletes are a waste of space at USNA" thing dies down considerably.

    When you are an applicant, or even a midshipman, sometimes it seems like USNA is the universe -- but it's just a way station (an intense, life-changing way station) on the way to a commission. It's what people do with that commission that matters, and I've seen a high degree of success from the recruited athletes who've gone Marine Corps ground. (I get that the Marines have more of a screening process than the SWO community, for example, so maybe all the slackers end up there -- but I'd bet that community too has a good share of people that didn't have the great record at USNA but are good with their sailors and their jobs.)
     
  10. futuremarinemom

    futuremarinemom Member

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    John41057, Not every "non-athlete" student is just into academics and nothing else. Some students work to help support their families, or have many siblings or elderly grandparents who require time, resources, and transportation to doctors or their own activities. When the world does not revolve around them, as is sometimes the case with only-children, students do not always have the same opportunities to participate in sports. Some of these "non-athlete" students have shown amazing leadership in their communities, boy scouts, Civil Air Patrol, or Sea Cadets. They have put in many hours and kept up with their studies just as much as the students who are involved in sports. Remember that the purpose of the service academies is to produce military officers - men and women who can LEAD, not just throw a ball. War is not a game.
     
  11. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    Rest assured, a top flight/blue-chip football recruit does not need to worry about obtaining a nomination whatsoever.

    If they want a player, they will offer him the appointment.

    And yes, an offer of appointment (complete with a legal nomination) can come to a recruited D-1 revenue-sport athlete before they even start the application process. Think of it as a LOA, with the contingency being "finish the application."

    Not sure why this is so surprising to some.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2013
  12. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

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    If true -- and I have no idea whether it is or isn't -- it would have to be a conditional offer if, for no other reason, the need for a medical qualification. Not everything can or will be waived.
     
  13. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    Just for clarity's sake - the Secretary of Defense is not a nomination source and cannot nominate anyone.

    Perhaps you were thinking of the Secretary of the Navy?
     
  14. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

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    SecNav is a source of appointments for those who have noms. This is where most of the "rest of the slate" for MOCs get their appointments. They are slotted to him/her. SecNav is not a source of nominations.

    The Supe is a source of nominations and, from those nominations appointments.

    SecDef is not a player in this process.
     
  15. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    10 USC 6954 (b) (2), (3), & (4).

     
  16. John41057

    John41057 Member

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    Sports

    Hi
    I could not agree more, but when I say my DS spent time in sports year round as well as adding college classes. I did not mean to lead you to thank he did not also do his community service as well. He has hundred and hundred of hours working at a local non-profit hospice and care facility for the elderly. He is team captain and has shown himself to be a leader not only at school but when volunteering as well. While his resume may not be as deep as some, he still met 100% of the admission requirements to get into the academy. Granted he was recruited and received an LOA. But this is only fair as he had many very highly rated and Ivy league schools wanting him. By getting the LOA and MOC recommendation, he was able to let the other offers go by the way side and give his commitment to the academy, which he has done. Also Luigi59 is right my DS had a verbal commitment at the end of his Sophomore year. The academies have a very active sports recruitment program just like all D-1 universities.

    Regards
    John
     
  17. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

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    Luigi,

    Fair point. I wasn't thinking of prior enlisted. My bad.
     
  18. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    Well, no I wasn't, but I'm sure you're right. I knew there was someone whose title started with Secretary who could nominate someone! :biggrin:
    Thanks for straightening me out Luigi.
     
  19. Whistle Pig

    Whistle Pig Banned

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    Mark the calendar! 25 Jan 2013 :yllol:

    WP agrees fully with Luigi! :eek:

    USNA determines they want "him", he'll get the offer.

    And btw, it will ALWAYS be a "him" who merits this type of imperial determination. :confused:
     
  20. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    Yes, as there are no women's revenue-generating sports. None.

    I would wager 10¢ that besides football there is no other sport (maybe Men's basketball) that generates a positive cash flow at USNA.

    Follow the D1 football TV money, bowl money, advertising, etc - football revenue subsidizes every other sport.

    And blue chip players keep the team competitive, which keeps the TV money coming in.
     

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