Nomination preference for athletes

Yes, as there are no women's revenue-generating sports. None.

I would wager 10¢ that besides football there is no other sport (maybe Men's basketball) that generates a positive cash flow at USNA.

Follow the D1 football TV money, bowl money, advertising, etc - football revenue subsidizes every other sport.

And blue chip players keep the team competitive, which keeps the TV money coming in.

Having spent some years in and around this arena, I'll wager every dime I've ever had ...

Not even football at USNA "generates a positive cash flow." Not a chance. Now when USNA slots, NAPS expenses, and all the costs are rightly, appropriately reported. Not enough seats, corporate sponsors of any real consequence, USNA is in the minor leagues in terms of raising license fees and so-called "philanthropic" dollars, etc.

But of course none will EVER see a correct accounting of such, so it's all, dare we say it, "academic." :eek::rolleyes::yllol:

NONE of USNA's sports teams comes even close to being revenue-neutral. It's smoke and mirrors.

And btw, there is no way Navy football can EVER generate a positive cash flow. Guaranteed. The numbers do not work ... unless most of the genuine expenses incurred are properly accounted for. And again, they NEVER will be. Taxpayers would not stand for the truth on this one.
 
And btw, there is no way Navy football can EVER generate a positive cash flow. Guaranteed. The numbers do not work ... unless most of the genuine expenses incurred are properly accounted for. And again, they NEVER will be. Taxpayers would not stand for the truth on this one.

You are misinformed. Taxpayer money is responsible for less than 10% of USNA sports funding.

The Naval Academy Athletic Association is a 501 (c) (3) non-profit organization charged with providing resources to support the varsity and junior varsity programs offered by the Naval Academy. The NAAA operates with the guidance of their Board of Control, whose members report to the Superintendent of the United State Naval Academy. Over 90% of funding support for the NAAA programs is through external sources of revenue (i.e. Blue & Gold memberships, ticket sales, corporate sponsorship, television revenue, parking, etc.). Less than 10% of the operating budget for the varsity and junior varsity programs is provided by the Academy via government funding.

According to the IG"s in-depth report of some of the "troubles" incurred by ADM Fowler during his last days there, the USNA's defense of the "spending issues" was "Football generates significant income" (for the NAAA), far above expenses. It funds all the other programs.

And by joining the Big East next year, they will ensure an even higher cut of TV money (estimated to be approx $6.4 Million per year per school) as well as almost-guaranteed bowl appearances.

Football is the cash-cow sport at every D1 college, even the academies.

:cool:
 
...Football is the cash-cow sport at every D1 college, even the academies.

:cool:

You're buying the company line, Louie. Precisely what they're selling you. Believe what you wish, but don't consider it to be true and accurate.

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-06-15/sports/29966743_1_expenses-basketball-program-revenue

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect...rt+shows+widening+financial+gap+in+division+i

Read 'em and weep, Lou. Football is a massive loser ... per every NCAA report ... for all but 20 of 120 D I programs. And all of those have massive fan bases and stadia, huge fund-raising programs including those directly tied to ticket sales and athletic donors, and large TV contracts.

Navy's football progam is a huge money-drain, AND if would be exposed as more so if proper accounting were administered to allocate student costs for USNA, NAPS and same for admin costs. Small stadium, small fan base, little-league fund-raising, tiny corporate sponsorships, massive costs/player-Mid. This math is so simple it's embarrassing to suggest that Navy football supports anything beyond some Saturday popcorn sales.
 
Last edited:
Navy's football progam is a huge money-drain,

The only place it's "draining money" from is NAAA, a private 501 (c) (3).

Not the Government.

Believe what you wish, but less than 10% of Navy athletics are supported by the taxpayers.

From 2006 (latest year available):

Last year, the team earned $16.6 million in revenue, almost three times the amount taken in during 2002, the last losing season before Johnson arrived and pioneered a football renaissance. That season, the overall athletic program lost more than $3 million, but Navy's winning ways -- including four consecutive bowl appearances and victories over Army -- have led to a sharp turnaround. In the 2004-2005 academic year, varsity sports at the academy generated a $3 million profit.

Navy football helps finance the school's 30 other varsity sports, a huge commitment for a school with an enrollment around 4,200. According to financial reports compiled annually for the Equity in Athletics Disclosure Act, the football program is the only varsity sport in the black.

The team's overall revenue also compares well with other big college programs. In the 2004-2005 academic year, the Maryland Terrapins football team had about $9.3 million in revenue, compared with Navy's almost $15 million.
 
I know a lot of this debate turns around what is classified as a sports expense. For example, I believe WP referenced NAPs as a hidden expense for the athletic program, and there's an argument to be made for that, given how much NAPS (and USMAPs) are used to redshirt for athletics. However, even under that argument, I think one would have to at least seriously consider that NAPS would still exist even without its relationship to athletics, as it advances two additional missions: facilitating the entry of enlisted personnel to USNA, and advancing diversity at USNA. From anecdotal evidence, I would surmise that the NAPS students who fit into these latter two categories are outweighed by those who are recruited athletes (and some of the athletes also fit within the diversity category, of course), but even taking a very broad view of athletics-related expenses I do not think one could appropriately chalk up the entire operating budget of NAPS to athletics.

Another point, and this is not a new one I know, is the unquantified value of a three-hour commercial for Annapolis and West Point each year in the form of the Army-Navy game. And the networks pay Army and Navy for the right to air said commercial! The fact that the commercial is in the form of a sporting event, and thus reaches all the eyeballs of people who fast forward through "ordinary" commercials on their DVR/TIVO, is an added benefit. And sports-loving alums donate -- much of that money returns straight to the football fold, but some of it does go to support non-revenue sports.

I have no doubt that WP is correct that looking at a budget of the NAAA (and the West Point equivalent) may well leave an educated observer with more questions than answers, and I know of a few issues myself (making varsity assistant coaches "instant ensigns" and justifying it because they help teach PE to non-varsity athletes). However, in large part because of the Army-Navy game, the football program does at least bring IN a significant amount of cash, even if we can't agree on how much cash is going out.

Moreover, for good or ill (and maybe largely for ill), American colleges and universities have big athletic programs, revenue and non-revenue sports alike, and for many American high-schoolers, getting to play or watch sports is a big part of the college experience. I expect the academies feel that, were they to go away from athletics (dialing down to Division III is an interesting, and different, discussion) they would lose many highly qualified applicants. And last of all (I promise), there's always the "I need an officer for a secret and dangerous mission -- get me a West Point football player" rationale: in a physical and demanding end job, varsity athletes may bring some highly desirable attributes.

Apologies for the lengthy post, and thanks for an interesting and thought-provoking debate.
 
The cost issue of all the Service Academies' Div I athletics programs is a red herring. SAs and the military establishment is not in the business of making money. They spend $$ to produce military officers and future leaders and win wars.

Bottom line, despite the musings and complaints of a few on this forum, approximately 25% of the entire Brigrade competes in Div I athletics. Another 20-25% participate in very competitive club sports = rugby, judo, triathlon, etc. So about half of the Mids/Cadets are pretty darn good athletes. A small percentage of those are considered blue chips. All the students, athletes included, have a strong desire to serve their country.

A few posters are not happy to learn that high-level, blue chip recruits get some level of assistance = an LOA, nomination boost, or a year of prep school, which is part of the recruitment process. Political? Not really, just a part of the system and a reality one must come to grips with. Civil Air Patrol, community service and the band are all nice activities to show part of the "whole person" apptitude score. However, they do not replace nor reach the level of importance the Academies place on high level student-athletes who may compete as part of the intercollegiate (NCAA) sports program that represents the Navy, Army, or Air Force. Therefore, those other extracurricular activities are simply not weighed as heavily as the state champion wrestler, All-State football player, Junior Olympic gymnast or hoops phenom from Chicago.

Seems every few months this issue surfaces and recruited athletes and the process by which they receive appointments are criticized. Get over it, Div I athletics at the Academies are not going away due to the whining of a few on this forum.
 
You're buying the company line, Louie. Precisely what they're selling you. Believe what you wish, but don't consider it to be true and accurate.

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-06-15/sports/29966743_1_expenses-basketball-program-revenue

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect...rt+shows+widening+financial+gap+in+division+i

Read 'em and weep, Lou. Football is a massive loser ... per every NCAA report ... for all but 20 of 120 D I programs. And all of those have massive fan bases and stadia, huge fund-raising programs including those directly tied to ticket sales and athletic donors, and large TV contracts.

Navy's football progam is a huge money-drain, AND if would be exposed as more so if proper accounting were administered to allocate student costs for USNA, NAPS and same for admin costs. Small stadium, small fan base, little-league fund-raising, tiny corporate sponsorships, massive costs/player-Mid. This math is so simple it's embarrassing to suggest that Navy football supports anything beyond some Saturday popcorn sales.

Having read these links (thank you for posting), I'm not surprised Navy football is one of the programs making a profit given that (1) it appears to get between 2-2.5$ million per year from just the Army Navy telecast alone; and (2) it does not have costs for scholarships or grants-in-aid, as do civilian universities (one of the linked articles said that compensation for coaches and grants-in-aid to athletes amount to over 50% of the expenses for football programs). I don't think that you can argue that the costs of a college education (i.e. scholarships) should be imputed for revenue sport athletes at Army/Navy/Air Force, since they too serve the 5 years after graduation that is the currency paid by all cadets/mids for the "free" college education. To the extent an athlete is let out of the commitment to go pro, then I'd agree you should come up with a scholarship cost and add that to the athletic budget in your "true" accounting exercise.

Rebel91, thanks also for a good post strongly stated.
 
Seems every few months this issue surfaces and recruited athletes and the process by which they receive appointments are criticized. Get over it, Div I athletics at the Academies are not going away due to the whining of a few on this forum.

Haven't seen anyone whining, can you post an example to back up your gratuitous assertion?
 
Start by reading Post #1 and work you way through this thread, I read whining throughout, but to be fair my threshold for whining is pretty low - I'm a Marine Infantry Officer. The whining and sarcasm continues in the thread, getting really nice in Post #4 #6 and on down the line. There are also sexist comments in this thread, someone opines that a female would never be considered a blue-chip recruit -- not true, I know of three such cases personally, bound to be hundreds more over the years.
 
Clarification: Navy is NOT one of the few D-I athletic ... or football programs ... making money.

Simply eliminate recruiting, athletic appointments ... and ensure that all Navy athletes are walk-ons from those already appointed. THEN there might be a modest argument for Navy's football program being "profitable."

As long as spots are allocated in both NAPS, Foundation, and USNA for athletic recruits, there is no argument. The NCAA's made that clear. Luigi's contention remains. But it doesn't make it true. Do the research. Read.

And the kicker on all of this is Navy's willingness to set free specific athletes from their commitments. All one need do is be "good enough."

Reading Luigi's "magic accounting" lends insight to why it took some IRS accountants to put Al Capone in jail for the rest of his life.:shake:
 
Folks, we've let this debate go on for quite a while. All sides have now made their points. Either find something new (and on topic) to discuss or give it a rest.
 
Back
Top