October or January?

[JChrisL]

I am looking for opinions whether I should encourage my son to have his AROTC and AFROTC packages ready for the first board or wait until the second. I have heard that whatever is submitted should be the best possible and agree with it. I don't think much will change with my son's stats other than waiting may give him more time to prepare for and interview and fit test (which may or may not help).

Obviously we are hoping for a 4 year scholarship offer and I have heard that the first board offers only 4 year scholarships, is this true? If so, I would think being considered in October would be best and given a second look in January, if not successful the first time.

I appreciate the wisdom from the posters here. I am learning and just trying to give advice to my son, but he will make the final decision. Thanks in advance for any comments and opinions.

Thanks.

 

[kinnem]

All AFROTC scholarships are 4 years. Of course the 4 year type 7 can be converted to a 3 year type 2.

AROTC scholarships are 3 or 4 years. 4 year scholarships can be given by any board, but typically only 4 year scholarships are given by the first board.

Few scholarships are given on the first board in any program. These are the cream of the cream of applicants. They like to see how the pool of applicants develops as more applications are received before awarding too many scholarships.

IMHO, if your son walks on water, or at least swims quickly through the water, then shoot for the first board. Otherwise shoot for the best application (which one should do as best as possible in any case). It's a trade off you have to assess. Some folks apply to the first board and never receive a scholarship. Some folks apply for the final board and still receive a scholarship. In any case, whether awarded a 3 year or 4 year scholarship, you're still getting a big savings on college expenses.

 

[EEBTTF]

I am looking for opinions whether I should encourage my son to have his AROTC and AFROTC packages ready for the first board or wait until the second. I have heard that whatever is submitted should be the best possible and agree with it. I don't think much will change with my son's stats other than waiting may give him more time to prepare for and interview and fit test (which may or may not help).

Obviously we are hoping for a 4 year scholarship offer and I have heard that the first board offers only 4 year scholarships, is this true? If so, I would think being considered in October would be best and given a second look in January, if not successful the first time.

I appreciate the wisdom from the posters here. I am learning and just trying to give advice to my son, but he will make the final decision. Thanks in advance for any comments and opinions.

Thanks.

@kinnem is spot on regarding the AROTC 1st Board. There are a lot of threads discussing the importance of timing on the AROTC application. Since your file is only reviewed 1 time, you need to wait to submit until you are 100% sure you have the best package possible. Search the posts by @Montana State Army ROTC - he has a great explanation of the importance of waiting to submit until your package is the best it can be.

 

[SOG-SA]

My kid is a living, breathing, eating (a ton) example of what @kinnem posted, above.

He pushed hard to get his AROTC application done before the first board. Was obsessed with checking off every box possible, as soon as possible. His application was very, very strong.....but not a world dominator, by any stretch.

1st Board - heard nothing but crickets.

2nd Board - more crickets.

3rd Board - 3-year AD Winner.

Here's what we learned.

1. My kid does not walk on water.
2. My kid upped his PT by a lot, well after the application was sent in.
3. My kid was in agony for MONTHS, just waiting for a decision. Drove us both nuts.
4. My kid realized he should have waited, and put the strongest package forward...instead of the fastest, that was "pretty good." This was especially clear, once we realized his application was only going to be looked at ONCE.
5. My kid, in my opinion, deserved the scholarship he won......but he also got a little lucky. Had he waited for a bit, and submitted before the 2nd Board, his "numbers" would have been better, he may have gotten a 2nd Board scholarship notice, and his old man would still have all his hair and fewer ulcers.

 

[milmomsomeday]

We are still a year out but are in a similar boat. Can I ask a timing question about the AROTC application? I’ve read that submitting your test scores triggers the physical fitness test and it must be completed in 30 days. If you’re aiming for the second board, does that mean he needs to wait until at least October to submit scores, then do the physical fitness test? Can the fitness test be done earlier and then scores be submitted when it’s triggered? My concern is just coaches in the thick of the season having time to give the fitness. (And maybe that’s just my own perceived issue that doesn’t exist.)
my kid is definitely gonna be a second board kid (unless the sat/act gods reign down goodness and yes it’s in his court to push that and help himself) but I’m just trying to help him make a plan for timing of the app. Thanks!

 

[USMAROTCFamily]

My kids both played sports every season and were so busy that I pushed them to get everything done for the first board, as I realistically did not think they would make time to improve any aspect of their applications beyond what they had already done. And frankly, I was worried that they would get injured in their fall sports and then do even worse on the Physical fitness tests for the ROTC applications, as a result. They worked on getting everything in and getting all of the teachers to do their recommendation submissions before things got too crazy with the school year. So, I am a big fan of getting it done for the first boards. If there was truly something that they were waiting on to get put on the application, like getting voted as a winter sport team captain, or waiting to get a higher test score on ACT/SAT, then wait, but otherwise "get 'er done!"

 

[USMAROTCFamily]

Oh, one other thought, if they have any medical issues that could come up on DODMerb, then trying to get the application in early to try to win the scholarship earlier, which will allow them to get started on the medical stuff, could be a big deal. This is especially important if a waiver may be needed, too. It took months for our DD to get medically cleared and she literally did not find out that she was medically approved until April 30th, which was so stressful, when final college decisions had to be made on May 1st.

 

[JChrisL]

My kid is a living, breathing, eating (a ton) example of what @kinnem posted, above.

He pushed hard to get his AROTC application done before the first board. Was obsessed with checking off every box possible, as soon as possible. His application was very, very strong.....but not a world dominator, by any stretch.

1st Board - heard nothing but crickets.

2nd Board - more crickets.

3rd Board - 3-year AD Winner.

Here's what we learned.

1. My kid does not walk on water.
2. My kid upped his PT by a lot, well after the application was sent in
3. My kid was in agony for MONTHS, just waiting for a decision. Drove us both nuts.
4. My kid realized he should have waited, and put the strongest package forward...instead of the fastest, that was "pretty good." This was especially clear, once we realized his application was only going to be looked at ONCE.
5. My kid, in my opinion, deserved the scholarship he won......but he also got a little lucky. Had he waited for a bit, and submitted before the 2nd Board, his "numbers" would have been better, he may have gotten a 2nd Board scholarship notice, and his old man would still have all his hair and fewer ulcers.

Your situation sound much like ours. If you don't mind me asking, what numbers would have been better if your son had waited?

Can a candidate take the PT test and decide to retake it before submitting the package? This seems to me to be the only area where my son might be able to grab a few more points (but then again he might max out the first time, I doubt it, but maybe). His academics are done, the Interview will be whatever it is but he would have more time to prepare. I don't think he will have perfect scores, but PT is the only one he can control.

Once he submits his application does it trigger having to schedule PT test and interview? This is point he is at, if he submits, will it start the ball rolling and take away his control of the schedule?

 

[JChrisL]

We are still a year out but are in a similar boat. Can I ask a timing question about the AROTC application? I’ve read that submitting your test scores triggers the physical fitness test and it must be completed in 30 days. If you’re aiming for the second board, does that mean he needs to wait until at least October to submit scores, then do the physical fitness test? Can the fitness test be done earlier and then scores be submitted when it’s triggered? My concern is just coaches in the thick of the season having time to give the fitness. (And maybe that’s just my own perceived issue that doesn’t exist.)
my kid is definitely gonna be a second board kid (unless the sat/act gods reign down goodness and yes it’s in his court to push that and help himself) but I’m just trying to help him make a plan for timing of the app. Thanks!

You hit my question also. Thanks, you said it better.

 

[JChrisL]

My kids both played sports every season and were so busy that I pushed them to get everything done for the first board, as I realistically did not think they would make time to improve any aspect of their applications beyond what they had already done. And frankly, I was worried that they would get injured in their fall sports and then do even worse on the Physical fitness tests for the ROTC applications, as a result. They worked on getting everything in and getting all of the teachers to do their recommendation submissions before things got too crazy with the school year. So, I am a big fan of getting it done for the first boards. If there was truly something that they were waiting on to get put on the application, like getting voted as a winter sport team captain, or waiting to get a higher test score on ACT/SAT, then wait, but otherwise "get 'er done!"

Same here.

 

[EEBTTF]

Your situation sound much like ours. If you don't mind me asking, what numbers would have been better if your son had waited?

Can a candidate take the PT test and decide to retake it before submitting the package? This seems to me to be the only area where my son might be able to grab a few more points (but then again he might max out the first time, I doubt it, but maybe). His academics are done, the Interview will be whatever it is but he would have more time to prepare. I don't think he will have perfect scores, but PT is the only one he can control.

Once he submits his application does it trigger having to schedule PT test and interview? This is point he is at, if he submits, will it start the ball rolling and take away his control of the schedule?

Your application is final after all the boxes are checked and you have had your PMS interview - the portal will say Board Ready. Once your application is reviewed it will change to Boarded. Once it changes to Boarded - you pretty much have what you are going to have for the remaining 2 Boards. You can resubmit the PFT as many times as you want, but a re-submit after you are Boarded is futile in my opinion. The AROTC PFT is pretty straight forward and a max score should be the goal. My guess is that the VAST majority of 4-YR winners on the 1st Board have a max PFT score for AROTC.

The applicant "controls" the pace and schedule in the AROTC process, unlike other branches. You get to schedule your PMS interview, which should be the last thing you do after all of the other boxes are checked. Once you are Boarded - the resubmittal of scores has a very minimal impact on your packet scoring. Remember....Your application is only looked at 1 time by human eyes. After that you are merely a score on a sheet, compared to a score on a sheet of every other candidate. The following is a scenario where a candidate reduces his/her chances by submitting on the 1st Board.

"Candidate has a 1250 on the SAT and submits his package for the first Board. The candidate is giving a certain number of points for the 1250 SAT score. Candidate is Boarded and does not receive a Scholarship on Board 1. Candidate re-takes the SAT and scores 1400. Score is resubmitted, but no-one will ever see that score change. The candidate is given a very meniscal bump in his OML/ranking and is re-inserted back into the pile for the next Board. Had the candidate waited to submit his application after scoring the 1400, he would have received full credit for that score - resulting in a significantly higher point total and subsequent ranking."

The main areas that a candidate can typically improve on are standardized test scores and PFT scores. If you think there is any possibility that these areas have room for improvement - don't submit for the 1st Board.

There are literally hundreds of stories similar to the above account by @SOG-SA. Every year there are strong candidates who do not get a scholarship due to the timing of their application submittal. There is no rush to get on the 1st Board unless you are 100% sure there is no room for improvement.

I also disagree with rushing your submittal to get in front of DoDMERB. The DoDMERB process is designed to process the candidates in a timely manner. Yes, there are many exceptions when a candidate has DoDMERB issues, but the vast majority get processed quickly. Don't rush the AROTC application to get a jump on DoDMERB.

My DS was awarded a 4-YR on the 1st Board a few years back as well as a NROTC-MO Scholarship. I posted the stats from the Boards that year in terms of the number of scholarships awarded by Board. I also had the breakdown of 4-yr vs 3-yr. May be worth a search back to look at if you are interested.

Lastly, the data shows a downward trend in available scholarships across the board this year (all branches). That means that there will be more competition for those 4-YR slots on the 1st Board as well as the scholarships on subsequent boards. This discussion on the importance of timing will be more relevant this year than in years past...just my opinion.

Good Luck!

 

[JChrisL]

Your application is final after all the boxes are checked and you have had your PMS interview - the portal will say Board Ready. Once your application is reviewed it will change to Boarded. Once it changes to Boarded - you pretty much have what you are going to have for the remaining 2 Boards. You can resubmit the PFT as many times as you want, but a re-submit after you are Boarded is futile in my opinion. The AROTC PFT is pretty straight forward and a max score should be the goal. My guess is that the VAST majority of 4-YR winners on the 1st Board have a max PFT score for AROTC.

The applicant "controls" the pace and schedule in the AROTC process, unlike other branches. You get to schedule your PMS interview, which should be the last thing you do after all of the other boxes are checked. Once you are Boarded - the resubmittal of scores has a very minimal impact on your packet scoring. Remember....Your application is only looked at 1 time by human eyes. After that you are merely a score on a sheet, compared to a score on a sheet of every other candidate.

The main areas that a candidate can typically improve on are standardized test scores and PFT scores. If you think there is any possibility that these areas have room for improvement - don't submit for the 1st Board.

There are literally hundreds of stories similar to the above account by @SOG-SA. Every year there are strong candidates who do not get a scholarship due to the timing of their application submittal. There is no rush to get on the 1st Board unless you are 100% sure there is no room for improvement.

I also disagree with rushing your submittal to get in front of DoDMERB. The DoDMERB process is designed to process the candidates in a timely manner. Yes, there are many exceptions when a candidate has DoDMERB issues, but the vast majority get processed quickly. Don't rush the AROTC application to get a jump on DoDMERB.

My DS was awarded a 4-YR on the 1st Board a few years back as well as a NROTC-MO Scholarship. I posted the stats from the Boards that year in terms of the number of scholarships awarded by Board. I also had the breakdown of 4-yr vs 3-yr. May be worth a search back to look at if you are interested.

Lastly, the data shows a downward trend in available scholarships across the board this year (all branches). That means that there will be more competition for those 4-YR slots on the 1st Board as well as the scholarships on subsequent boards. This discussion on the importance of timing will be more relevant this year than in years past...just my opinion.

Good Luck!

Thanks, all good points. I am glad to learn that he controls the scheduling of the interview, what about the PFT? What I was asking about the PFT is before he finalizes his application. If he doesn't max out the PFT, can he reschedule it and use the second score (again before he schedules the PMS interview)?

 

[EEBTTF]

Thanks, all good points. I am glad to learn that he controls the scheduling of the interview, what about the PFT? What I was asking about the PFT is before he finalizes his application. If he doesn't max out the PFT, can he reschedule it and use the second score (again before he schedules the PMS interview)?

Yes - The PFT is a simple upload to the portal and can be resubmitted multiple times. My advice would be to hold off on submitting the score if you think there is potential improvement. Since the AROTC PFT is a self reported (proctored) event, it is much easier to administer than say the NROTC-MO PFT. My advice would be to have your DS run the PFT until he either gets a max score or has his best possible score - then upload the form to the portal.

 

[milmomsomeday]

Thank you @EEBTTF for all of that insight. I have definitely told him to shoot for the 2nd board and it will give him another shot at the SAT/ACT if needed (that’s his really weak spot). Unfortunately his school doesn’t have varsity sports so he is running some 5K and obstacle course type races to continue his fitness. He is a pretty good runner and will strive to max out those push-ups and sit-ups. Good to know that he can train for it and submit when he has maxed it out and then schedule his interview when he is ready to submit for the boards.

one more question, we are about 3 hours from the state school that is his number one. There is also an ROTC program at the private school in our town. Is it advantageous to drive the 3 hours to interview at his number one?

 

[EEBTTF]

Thank you @EEBTTF for all of that insight. I have definitely told him to shoot for the 2nd board and it will give him another shot at the SAT/ACT if needed (that’s his really weak spot). Unfortunately his school doesn’t have varsity sports so he is running some 5K and obstacle course type races to continue his fitness. He is a pretty good runner and will strive to max out those push-ups and sit-ups. Good to know that he can train for it and submit when he has maxed it out and then schedule his interview when he is ready to submit for the boards.

one more question, we are about 3 hours from the state school that is his number one. There is also an ROTC program at the private school in our town. Is it advantageous to drive the 3 hours to interview at his number one?

Good question on the interview. There are differing opinions on this, but I will give you mine. I do think it matters and would recommend your DS interview at his #1 choice. Make sure the ROO and PMS at the school know that it is your #1 choice. The cadre rotate in and out of schools - so it may or may not matter. I think it mattered in the case of my son.

So, if its not too big of an inconvenience, I would recommend making the 3 hour trip. good luck.

 

[JChrisL]

Yes - The PFT is a simple upload to the portal and can be resubmitted multiple times. My advice would be to hold off on submitting the score if you think there is potential improvement. Since the AROTC PFT is a self reported (proctored) event, it is much easier to administer than say the NROTC-MO PFT. My advice would be to have your DS run the PFT until he either gets a max score or has his best possible score - then upload the form to the portal.

Thanks, I appreciate the insight. Is AFROTC the same? I know the actual standards are higher for the PFT, but is it self administered also?

 

[EEBTTF]

Thanks, I appreciate the insight. Is AFROTC the same? I know the actual standards are higher for the PFT, but is it self administered also?

No problem, glad to help. I am not as familiar with the AFROTC process.

 

[USMAROTCFamily]

Your situation sound much like ours. If you don't mind me asking, what numbers would have been better if your son had waited?

Can a candidate take the PT test and decide to retake it before submitting the package? This seems to me to be the only area where my son might be able to grab a few more points (but then again he might max out the first time, I doubt it, but maybe). His academics are done, the Interview will be whatever it is but he would have more time to prepare. I don't think he will have perfect scores, but PT is the only one he can control.

Once he submits his application does it trigger having to schedule PT test and interview? This is point he is at, if he submits, will it start the ball rolling and take away his control of the schedule?

I know people say that the candidates who get selected on the first board of the AROTC scholarship "Walk on Water." I would not agree with this, but would say you do need to have overall strong packages. The candidate takes the PFT when he/she wants to and it is not scheduled or "ordered." The area that my son could have improved was definitely his PFT. However, the reality was that I didn't think he would really push extra hard to try to improve it. (Sounds bad, but it was true) He was very involved in doing other things he loved, and I let him make his own decisions on that. Again, I thought he would have a potential to get hurt, too. He didn't not have a fast run time. He also applied to West Point and The Naval Academy. He went to the summer session for USNA and took the CFT there. Frankly, I didn't think his run was even a passing score. However, in the end, he was selected for AROTC scholarship the first round, got the NROTC scholarship first round, got an LOA to USNA (after that CFT that must have just squeaked by in passing) and an appointment and got an appointment to West Point when the first wave went out. In the end, he went to West Point. He was great at ruck sack marches, was on the Sandhurst Team, got the max score on the Indoor Obstacle Course, but guess what? He still sucked at running! He always passed his PT tests, but had low scores on the run, which required remedial PT. Again, he never flunked it, but running has never been his "thing" and still isn't. Everybody can obsess over when to submit this or that, but when it comes down to it, you know your kid. Will he/she really increase whatever the shortfall is and how much does it really affect the packet from a scoring perspective? High test scores and leadership opportunities are where you get more points in the packets and if those can be improved by waiting and focusing on those ( if they will actually do it) then do it. While both my kids got good scores on ACT/SAT, if they would have done some studying for it, I think they could have raised their scores, but they did not want to study for it, so they didn't. DD applied for AROTC and NROTC Scholarships. Again, she had strong packages, but not great PT scores. She got the NROTC really early in their cycle to her top school (Notre Dame) and was not picked up for AROTC scholarship until the 3rd board. She was offered all 4-year scholarships to her top school and 2 others by that point, but she didn't get it to her her 2nd choice school, because they already were "full" of their quotas to that school. I do not know if they still limit the number of scholarships to any schools anymore, but you could ask one of the ROOs if that is the case. If so, that is more reason to get in for the early boards.

 

[JChrisL]

I know people say that the candidates who get selected on the first board of the AROTC scholarship "Walk on Water." I would not agree with this, but would say you do need to have overall strong packages. The candidate takes the PFT when he/she wants to and it is not scheduled or "ordered." The area that my son could have improved was definitely his PFT. However, the reality was that I didn't think he would really push extra hard to try to improve it. (Sounds bad, but it was true) He was very involved in doing other things he loved, and I let him make his own decisions on that. Again, I thought he would have a potential to get hurt, too. He didn't not have a fast run time. He also applied to West Point and The Naval Academy. He went to the summer session for USNA and took the CFT there. Frankly, I didn't think his run was even a passing score. However, in the end, he was selected for AROTC scholarship the first round, got the NROTC scholarship first round, got an LOA to USNA (after that CFT that must have just squeaked by in passing) and an appointment and got an appointment to West Point when the first wave went out. In the end, he went to West Point. He was great at ruck sack marches, was on the Sandhurst Team, got the max score on the Indoor Obstacle Course, but guess what? He still sucked at running! He always passed his PT tests, but had low scores on the run, which required remedial PT. Again, he never flunked it, but running has never been his "thing" and still isn't. Everybody can obsess over when to submit this or that, but when it comes down to it, you know your kid. Will he/she really increase whatever the shortfall is and how much does it really affect the packet from a scoring perspective? High test scores and leadership opportunities are where you get more points in the packets and if those can be improved by waiting and focusing on those ( if they will actually do it) then do it. While both my kids got good scores on ACT/SAT, if they would have done some studying for it, I think they could have raised their scores, but they did not want to study for it, so they didn't. DD applied for AROTC and NROTC Scholarships. Again, she had strong packages, but not great PT scores. She got the NROTC really early in their cycle to her top school (Notre Dame) and was not picked up for AROTC scholarship until the 3rd board. She was offered all 4-year scholarships to her top school and 2 others by that point, but she didn't get it to her her 2nd choice school, because they already were "full" of their quotas to that school. I do not know if they still limit the number of scholarships to any schools anymore, but you could ask one of the ROOs if that is the case. If so, that is more reason to get in for the early boards.

It's ultimately my son's decision. I will share what I have learned with him and tell him to do his own research. I see valid points on both sides.

 

[2022 Mom]

My kid is a living, breathing, eating (a ton) example of what @kinnem posted, above.

He pushed hard to get his AROTC application done before the first board. Was obsessed with checking off every box possible, as soon as possible. His application was very, very strong.....but not a world dominator, by any stretch.

1st Board - heard nothing but crickets.

2nd Board - more crickets.

3rd Board - 3-year AD Winner.

Here's what we learned.

1. My kid does not walk on water.
2. My kid upped his PT by a lot, well after the application was sent in.
3. My kid was in agony for MONTHS, just waiting for a decision. Drove us both nuts.
4. My kid realized he should have waited, and put the strongest package forward...instead of the fastest, that was "pretty good." This was especially clear, once we realized his application was only going to be looked at ONCE.
5. My kid, in my opinion, deserved the scholarship he won......but he also got a little lucky. Had he waited for a bit, and submitted before the 2nd Board, his "numbers" would have been better, he may have gotten a 2nd Board scholarship notice, and his old man would still have all his hair and fewer ulcers.

Thank you for your honesty - just a bit confused but it's probably me not understanding terms - I thought the AROTC application is only presented to the Board once as previously mentioned, why were you expecting a response on all 3 (crickets on 1st and 2nd board)? Is it possible an application is completed by the 1st board but not even looked at/considered? If packet and PT and interview are done before the 1st board, is it expected that it will be presented to the first board? TIA