Plebe Candidate Status revisited?

Discussion in 'Merchant Marine Academy - USMMA' started by 2013Parent, Oct 4, 2009.

  1. 2013Parent

    2013Parent Member

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    Anyone out there know ANYTHING about what the big screw up was at the ceremony for the M/N that lost their lives in WWII?.....our guy is telling us the Plebes have been busted and are now Plebe Candidates again? I truly would like to understand.

    Thanks!
     
  2. KPmid719

    KPmid719 Member

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    Taking away privileges and knocking the plebes down to P/C status is a common punishment. In years past they would be getting it much worse. 2013 is having a cakewalk compared to the classes before them so far. I wouldn't sweat it, there are bigger fish to fry.
     
  3. kdbax

    kdbax Member

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    They were supposed to have 142 plebes for the ceremony to honor the 142. They were able to muster only 90. Not good - the class of '44 was being honored, and as our son noted these guys probably knew some of the 142.
     
  4. lgottliebdds

    lgottliebdds Member

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    My DS said that the change in status is just a nuisance that will probably not last more than a week or 2. Just another way that as a class they are learning that actions have consequences and every is responsible for everyone.
     
  5. noworries

    noworries Banned

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    This is weak.

    Sounds like a leadership problem.

    Was there a by name list of attendees?

    Seems odd that a group of people trained to be in the right place at the right time would collectively choose to ignore their instructions.

    142 plebes really, one would think after being at sea in a time of war the upper classmen could appreciate the hardships of the fallen on a more personal level and fight for the honor of representing them.

    I get keeping the plebes of balance so they grow. I lose respect when the memory of good men trivialized.

    Tell them they are in trouble for letting their classmates fall not because they missed an unannounced formation.

    The class was on campus not downtown.

    Oh well, it is part of the process and they will be better officers once it is over.
     
  6. kp13

    kp13 Member

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    Most of the Plebes didn't just "Collectively choose to ignore their instructions". Actually most of the Plebes not there were either on TM's off campus or at sports practices still due to parade cutting into their normal practice hours
     
  7. wac2013

    wac2013 Member

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    im gonna disagree. i feel like there were alot more people that could have shown up but just decided not to because it was technically "voluntary". im not saying that sports practices, etc, didnt play a role, but 142 plebes is roughly half our class. i know one company in particular managed to get 28 plebes there out of 60, if every other company had similar attendance we would have been ok. i think the importance of this particular event was underemphasized, and that contributed to the poor performance. the planning for the event itself also fell apart, which certainly didnt help make up for the attendance. overall, it was simply a failure of the plebe class to accomplish an objective for whatever reason, and we'll take the punishment for it.
     
  8. Is2day4him

    Is2day4him Member

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    Rule #76: No excuses, play like a champion.
     
  9. noworries

    noworries Banned

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    touche'

    Rule #76 is in effect
     
  10. 2013Parent

    2013Parent Member

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    My Helicopter is now an SR-71 - way to much altitude to think about interfereing......but, I still communicate with my son and I listen to facts.

    Fact: No excuses should be accepted for a failure to honor these fallen heroes.

    Fact: Leadership, at all levels should be taking it on the chin for this failure to execute, not just the lowly Plebe that does not even have a minor leadership postion. Yes, failure is egg on EVERYONE's face. A Voluntary muster, without confirmation of attendance, is a recipe for failure.

    Fact: I know squat about previous years. But this year, with the GAO report, the Kings Pointer issues ( see the other forum, if you do not know what I am referring to), hearing (and verifiying) that problem Plebes are being moved from one Company to another, etc. etc. etc. seems like a boatload of unnecessary distractions.

    Fact: As everyone has said.....KP is a great school and great set of valuable lessons are being learned...............one way or another!
     
  11. kp2001

    kp2001 USMMA Alumnus

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    Fact: Honoring the 142 is a required step for the plebe class

    All the classes before them have done something for this recognition step...if you ever go to the chapel you will see a flame in one of the pews. This was my class's recognition of them.

    The class leads itself in completing the recognition steps. The upperclass are not at fault for the plebes not completing their own step.
     
  12. 2013Parent

    2013Parent Member

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    Fact: If someone else decided this muster was THIS classes' only acceptable way to honor the fallen, then the muster should not have been voluntary.

    Fact: This screw up was a disgrace and insulting to the class of '44 members that were present and was in no way only the Plebes screw up. If you do not believe that then give a shout out to Captain Fell. I did. He is not happy with a lot of things, not just the plebes.
     
  13. yogijer

    yogijer Member

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    Way to go!!

    2013parent, Maybe calling the commandant is going over the line a little bit. I am trying to see were in the command structure helicopter parent falls :shake:
     
  14. 2013Parent

    2013Parent Member

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    It might be over the top if I called to complain as a parent....helecopter or otherwise.

    It is not over the top when you are interested in the facts surrounding a ceremony and time set aside to honor the class of 1944.

    I did not call anyone to complain about how Plebes are treated. I did not call to complain or inquire about any part of any Plebe punishment or "downgrading". Frankly, I could not care less if my DS is cleaning toilets, with a toothbrush, till graduation. I did not call as a parent.

    I did call though....I did call to discuss and find facts. Facts I am interested in as an American that is the child of WWII generation parents. I am a Vietnam era vet (no time in country) My father and one of his older brothers are both living decorated veterans. One of my older uncles paid the ultimate sacrifice. I care whether or not one of our five Federal Service Academies has enough leadership to put together a program for a very distinguished class. The class of 1944. So does Captain Fell. This American is happy he does.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2009
  15. Is2day4him

    Is2day4him Member

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    honestly, when parents call the commandant, it just makes things worse for everyone. parental involvement in regimental matters should be kept to a minimum. please.

    and KP2001 is dead on. we weren't given any instruction when it was our turn to honor the 142. it is a recognition step and one which is not taken lightly. much like the 9/11 step (which was also a fiasco BTW). bottom line is that they were told what they had to do and were expected to follow through. i was there when the RC told them what he expected. they flopped.
    it's not the responsibility of the upperclass to see to it that the plebes do what they're expected to. micromanagement is not the answer. give the kids a job and expect it to be done.

    and here's the thing, there are many ways the plebes can and should honor the 142, however, when you're expected to do a ceremony for the classmates of many of the 142, you should cowboy up and put out the best effort. those men are the dwindling remnant of what this place was founded on.

    it's a crying shame that these kids didn't see the significance of this. oh, and as a plebe there is no such thing as being a volunteer... you're volun-told.
     
  16. 2013Parent

    2013Parent Member

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    Agree with both of these points.
     
  17. luv2fly

    luv2fly Member

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    Call me crazy but, parental involvement in regimental matters should be ZERO!

    This is not the University of Florida (party school) where anything goes.

    This the United States Merchant Marine Academy. Let the Superintendent and the Commandant handle regimental matters.

    Remember parents let the kids play the game! We weren't invited to play!

    luv2fly
     
  18. KPMarineopsdad

    KPMarineopsdad Member

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    I couldn't agree more. Parents are in no position to know everything that goes on there. Frankly, It's none of our business. I have said it before and I will continue to say it. We have done our job, now it's time to park the helicopters, stand on the sidelines and cheer. It would never occur to me to call the Academy because I didn't like the way my kid was being treated there. He can leave at any time. As for e-mailing upperclassmen in a campaign to get the class recognized....... I have not the words. I am not accusing anyone on this or any other forum but, believe me, it happens.
     
  19. 2013Parent

    2013Parent Member

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    Also, agree with of these points.
     
  20. KPmid719

    KPmid719 Member

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    It WAS only the plebes screw up... they are the ONLY class who hasn't done a single successful spirit mission to honor anything. Nothing for 9-11, nothing for Coast Guard and now this BS. All the while they are getting privileges that NO class has had before them and the training department is having their hand tied behind there backs mostly due to pressure from PARENTS. They are told exactly what is expected of them, everything they are doing is a TEST. They are supposed to be learning leadership starting by learning how to lead each other. Not only are they unwilling to do this, but they are very quick to pass the blame to someone else. Meanwhile every other class has been able to achieve this. It is for this reason why we are so proud and why upper class get angry when they see how this class acts. 2013Parent, I believe you deserve answers, but I believe you called the wrong person. Instead you should be asking the members of the class of 2013.
     

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