Plebe summer numbers?

Discussion in 'Naval Academy - USNA' started by nodiva, Aug 5, 2015.

  1. nodiva

    nodiva Member

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    Does anyone have any idea of the plebe numbers this summer? Have there been any plebes leave USNA? I think I heard last year that there was hardly any "wash". Just curious about this summer.
     
  2. parent

    parent Member

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    Rumor 11 left on I-DAy. There is always attrition, just not sure how much.
     
  3. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    Attrition has reduced over the years. 11 actually seems like a high number to have called it quits on I Day (not disputing the number at all), definitely could be true. Usually there a handful. They usually review the numbers at the parent's brief during Parents Weekend. Be curious to see what they publish doe numbers.
     
  4. SDMom2019

    SDMom2019 Member

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    My son says there are only about 8 Plebes in Tango Company.
     
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  5. Dad2020

    Dad2020 Member

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    How many plebes, on average, are in a company? I don't know anything about this or these numbers. Is 8 bad?
     
  6. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    There are roughly 40 Plebes to a company. Tango company is the company where Plebes go to be processed out if they decide to leave. They separate those who decide to leave from their regular companies so they don't disrupt training or discourage other kids. Tango has its own set of special retailers that make sure they process out according to regs. Sometimes they have special watches for kids who aren't coping well with everything going on until they can be sent home.
     
  7. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    And no 8 plebes in Tango company is pretty small. But that number can grow and shrink as kids process out. Kids who leave I Day are generally sent home the first day as they didn't swear in. New Plebes are supposed to stay 2 weeks before quitting. If a kid becomes suicidal or is an extreme case they can be removed earlier.
     
  8. SDMom2019

    SDMom2019 Member

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    I'm not sure how knowledgeable he is about it, since he's just a Plebe, but my son says that very few leave because of Plebe Summer. He said the attrition usually comes from those who can't handle the academics or get into some kind of trouble.
     
  9. murfthesurf

    murfthesurf DS - USNA 2020

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    Is a transfer to Tango Company irrevocable?

    Could a kid have second thoughts again, and go back to his/her original Company?
     
  10. Dad2020

    Dad2020 Member

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    Thank you. I had no idea that existed. I am curious what causes people to wash out academically. The NAPS is in place to help someone who isn't prepared, right? So I guess based on that I figured they'd be prepared. What causes most of the academic distress?
     
  11. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    They can come back from Tango. They go through a series of talks, chats, counseling from chaplains, to parents, to active duty folks to admin. They have plenty of time to think and talk it out. And that goes for anyone considering leaving whether during Plebe Summer or the Ac year.
     
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  12. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    Attrition as a whole has dropped the last decade or so. One of the reasons class sizes are smaller. Pros can come to social media... One of the pros is there is so much knowledge and info available to a candidate. They should know what they are in for if they even spend 2-3 hours on Google what Plebe Summer and USNA are.
     
  13. LongAgoPlebe

    LongAgoPlebe Member

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    Back in the day, Tango Company had at least two purposes: 1) as a holding zone for plebes who were outprocessing during PS, and 2) to offer counseling for those plebes who were unsure about what they wanted to do. Plebes in Tango still had to get up, make their beds, do a modified PEP, greet detailers and officers, etc. But there were also ample opportunities to seek the counsel of the chaplains and officers and senior enlisted outside the chain of command. They've been doing this a long time, and they recognize that while the plebes are now adults, they are also young and inexperienced (I see this with my own students as well). Some of them really haven't had a "worst day ever" yet, and do not (yet) know what they're capable of.

    I know my PS company received one plebe who tangoed, then changed his mind before the process was done. He finished plebe year and graduated into surface warfare, stayed in for 11 years before separating.

    During ac year, many of those who fall short do so in calculus and chemistry, especially. Those are common freshman-killers nationwide, though. Smaller numbers of academically unsat plebes will struggle with English or history. One of the things USNA offers is incredibly thorough academic help. Mids can get help from instructors through EI, or extra instruction (basically, office hours), through organized tutoring offered by other mids, often within one's company, or through the Plebe Network - you shine my shoes, I help you with Taylor's theorem. It's not that USNA mids are unprepared, it's just that college is hard. It's supposed to be hard. And it's a really different way of thinking and learning than most college freshmen and plebes have been used to for the previous 13 years. In K-12, they had parents making sure they did homework every night, checking their worksheets, maybe checking off a form on their kids' folders. Or parents checked CMS (course management software) regularly. They had teachers reminding them every day what to read and when the next test was. They had time in class to work on assignments, and multiple chances to revise and get things right. They read 25% of what they're expected to read in college. The longest paper most high school students write, ever, is 1.5 pages, and it's heavily prescribed: first paragraph thesis sentence:____. Second paragraph, _____. Etc. They may be the best and brightest, but that doesn't mean they have experience planning their work week based on syllabi from five classes; it doesn't mean they can estimate how much time it takes to work a problem set for calculus or prepare a chemistry lab report; it doesn't mean they know how to write a paper that makes a clear claim and supports the claim with evidence; it doesn't mean they know how to sit their butts in a chair and work at that calculus, really struggle with it and not give up and screw around on Facebook or YikYak; and it doesn't mean they know how to get help, and from whom. I don't mean to suggest they're incompetent because they aren't, and chances are that USNA plebes are probably ahead of the pack on these things. But learning how to regulate your life is a major challenge for most college freshmen, and most USNA mids are not immune to this. I spend a decent chunk of time in my freshman courses just helping students learn how to do life. These are just some of the things that can be roadblocks for plebes.
     
  14. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    Time management, lack of ability to adjust to college paced courses, lack of study skills, inability to balance academic, military and physical demands. Classes are fast paced and kids don't realize they are behind or recognize when to ask for help. Most have never had to ask for help or been behind before. The course load is not light at USNA. Throw on plebe demands (or even upperclass demands) this is a tough balance. Some can just never adjust to it. Others work their tails off and just can't cut it. The graduation rate of those who attend NAPS at USNA is actually not extremely high. Don't quote me on this (it's somewhere on this forum) the graduation rate of NAPS grads at USNA is around 60-70% ish. Will look for the exact number. Folks leave at 2 for 7 also. Some decide that the military life isn't for them. Some have too many conduct offenses. My plebe year squad leader was less than 3 months from graduation and popped positive for pot. Also saw folks tossed for honor and PRT failures too.
     
  15. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    My roommate ran tango one year. They didn't do PEP, but they get up daily, greet upperclass and make their beds. They are kept in a separate wing from the other plebes. And yes they spend a ton of time working with them to make sure this isn't a bad day moment. I never saw a plebe enter tango and then come back. I did have 5 friends who left USNA as upperclassman and return with other classes realizing they screwed up and should of never left.
     
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  16. 14mccpa

    14mccpa Member

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    Absolutely a "rumor" 11 left I-Day. Source??

    They do not let anyone leave PS within the first 7-10 days unless there is an extenuating circumstance(med/psych). All the disenchanted plebes go to Tango Company. Most of them end up being placed back into a new Company within a week or two. In Tango they get a lot of support from counselors and pastors, and the detailing of them essentially stops. They observe most activities from the sidelines as a group.

    Last year 6 total left at the end of the 51 days PS.

    My son is a current plebe and per him the Tango Company has been as high as about 20, but at least half of them were put back into other companies pretty quickly. He knows of no one who left completely, although that quite possibly could've happened by now. The 2019s were very close to a record on the initial PET and hope to break the record on the final PET this Monday(>97% passing)...
     
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  17. nodiva

    nodiva Member

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  18. 18MIDN

    18MIDN Member

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    This information is absolutely not true. Tango does not open for the first ~2 weeks of plebe summer. Candidates and than plebes who want to DOR are processed out without going to Tango. This year there were an abnormally high number of plebes who left on IDay, but I do not know specifically how many.

    Also, your son would not know any information in regards to the amount of plebes in Tango. They are kept completely separate from the rest of the Regiment. As of a detailer I spoke with last weekend, there are no plebes currently in Tango.
     
  19. Vtmom

    Vtmom Member

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    I had heard from a coworker that someone they knew had left Usna within the first week or so this summer. As in, was already home home. Having a plebe this summer, I said I didn't think that usually happened, but of course we never know for sure. Maybe it was true....that would be sad. And this person had wanted navy for a long time and came from an extremely competitive state. But if there were a high number leaving this year, maybe it was true.
     
  20. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    If a kid leaves that early in the process it usually means there was something not right and they removed them immediately. And when I say not right... Threatening suicide, complete or total failure to even try or comply with anything, threat of bodily injury. It is extemely rare but it has happened.
     

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