Presidential nominations

Discussion in 'Nominations' started by USMAalltheway, Jun 28, 2009.

  1. USMAalltheway

    USMAalltheway Member

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    Hey!

    Does anybody know how many nomnations the president can give out? I'm planning to do ROTC in case I'm not competitve enough. Thanks.

    USMAalltheway
     
  2. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    Presidential nominations are unlimited.

    However, appointments granted under Presidential nominations are limited to 100.
     
  3. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

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    Folks eligible for Pres noms get one. However, if that is you, do NOT rest on your laurels. While a Pres nom may be sufficient to get you an appointment, it may not. Be sure to apply to ALL noms for which you are eligible, to include your senators, rep, and VP.
     
  4. USMAalltheway

    USMAalltheway Member

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    Thanks for the info guys!:thumb:

    USMAalltheway
     
  5. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I might be reading this wrong, but ROTC does not qualify for a Presidential. Your parents(military member with certain requirements) must qualify for a Presidential, there is no compertition to get the nom. They are unlimited in noms, typically, there are over 400 per yr given out for ea SA
     
  6. edhvoice

    edhvoice Founding Member

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    Presidential Nominations numbers

    Does anyone know the recent average number of presidential nominations at USMA for the past several years?
     
  7. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    They typically all(SA's) run in the 400+ range. Remember only 100 can be appointed.
     
  8. homewith4

    homewith4 Member

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    I don't understand the point of applying for Presidential nomination and congressional nominations. If everyone eligible gets a pres nomination, I don't get how one could be competitive for a congressional nom if you don't filter to the "top of the list" of the Pres noms. Yea, I get it the part you don't know who you're competing against at the congressional level. In addition, the VP nominations are available to a larger pool of applicants (nation wide) so that would appear to be harder to get than a pres nom.

    Since each service academy selects which of the pres noms get in (not the president himself), does it really happen that the academy "wants you", yet will not choose you to get the pres nom.
     
  9. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    The point is two fold. The more noms the more chances you have to get in. Second, it allows the SA more freedom to get another qualified candidate in. All of the slates work the same way, the highest WCS wins the appt (caveat remove the LOA's from this scenario.

    So take the slate of the MOC you rank number 2 there and number 99 on the Presidential. The SA appts you on the Presidential. If you did not have the 2nd nom, and are still deemed competitive you would be on the NWL, and it is not necessarily true that you would get appt.

    It is not necessarily true that the top 100 get appt, since the SA has the ability to move appts around when assigning them. In theory if every Sen's number 1 on their slate has a presidential, but assigned to the MOC that means the highest WCS on the presidential to be appt starts at 200.

    Also, getting a nom in very competitive areas is not a given, thus for some people that is their only nom. We know one cadet at the AFA who only had 1 nom (that's all you need) and it was a Presidential. He did not make the slate for any MOC, without the Presidential he would never have been appt.
     
  10. homewith4

    homewith4 Member

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    thanks for a through reply...but what does MCS and NWL mean? I get all of what you are saying. The process for a Pres nom is so much easier than the congressional, especially since we live overseas. Of course a trip to Texas for an interview will happen if necessary (our congressman requires an interview in December).
     
  11. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    WCS = Whole Candidate Score (this is where they add up the points from PAR (prior academic record...SAT, gpa, etc with the CFA, ECs and recs.)

    NWL is the National Waiting List....i.e the pool of people who received a nom, but didn't win the spot for their MOC, yet is competitive enough to try to find them another slot, like the Supes appt.

    As far as an interview, the MOCS are aware that many military children live overseas, so they have been known to do phone interviews with that candidate. They do not hold it against them for not flying across the pond to come for a 15 minute interview
     
  12. Drew_22

    Drew_22 USAFA Cadet

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    If they are unlimited, who do they get to choose who actually uses the Presidential Nomination? Is it the "whole person concept"? Maybe you already answered it but I'm just a little confused on who actually gets to use it.
     
  13. armybratkl

    armybratkl Member

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    100 candidates are accepted off of Presidential Nominations. I would assume the #1's for each MOC get in first, and those are taken off of the Presidential Nomination slate, and then the next 100 on the slate get appointments.
     
  14. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Not necessarily. You will see people being appt to the SA before the nom process is completed. In areas like NY and VA they do not like giving out multiple noms to spread the wealth, since only 1 nom is needed to be appt. If a kid has an LOA and a Pres. they never apply for the MOC since they will come in that way. There are also kids that never get an MOC even though they applied for one, so their name is not even on the list, however, the #2 on the list has Pres, but never gets appt. because their WCS is lower. In theory you would believe that the number 2 would be higher since they have an MOC nom and the other child does not, but theory and reality rarely ever are the same. The SA can also bring someone in on a VP or ROTC before touching the Pres. noms. They could even use the Supe before the Presidential. In the end they want the highest WCS recipients to make it, so they move the candidates around to get the optimal class.

    It is possible that a candidate could have a Pres, VP, 3, MOCs and a ROTC nom. That means they could slide that person in 5 different ways before they hit the Pres. appt. This is a puzzle they are making and they have no idea what the picture will look like until the last few pieces. This is also why I have stated you might have your packet in and meet the board in Oct., but not receive an appt until the mass mailing in Mar. That is also why you need a back up plan. The SA's are in a way rolling, but it is unique. With Pres. they can start appointing without the entire slate, with MOCS they cannot. Again why they may give you an appt earlier. These are cases where they know from historical data that you will get in. For ex. your WCS is higher than the top 25% of last yrs pres., thus, they expect that your WCS with a Pres will win and give it to you in Oct. Then there are those who are at the tail end of previous yrs WCS, so they wait until Mar. to see if they can get you in.
     
  15. mom3boys

    mom3boys Parent

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    Great post Pima. Great reasons to GET THAT APPLICATION IN EARLY!! Give the academies more time to figure out where/if you fit into their puzzle.
     
  16. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    It is also why some kids get frustrated when in Dec they start seeing the list getting longer and they have yet to hear. It is all because the slate was handed in and all of cadets had a WCS.

    Also realize that if you have 4 noms and don't get an appt until March, it should not be assumed that it had to be this Sen and not that cong., because your friend from your district got in also, so it had to be the Sen. There are people who will also get in from other sources. T
     
  17. USMAalltheway

    USMAalltheway Member

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    Just wondering, if you sent your application to USMA in October, would this be considered early?

    USMAalltheway
     
  18. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Your packet can go in tomorrow, but will not go up to a board until Oct, and that is only if you have nom. Let's say you are from NC with no presidential and send it in Oct. It will not meet a board until at least DEC (Burr's noms weren't in until theMOC deadline, interviews happened in Jan). You can continue updating evn after submitting in Aug. (i.e. higher SAT from testing in OCT) The only thing you cannot change/update is your CFA. That is a 1 time deal unless they request a new one. This is why I stress that unless you are close to the max don't rush to get it(CFA) in.

    Also realize that somebody on your MOC slate might need a waiver, thus the appt can't go out until there is resolution of Mar when the files close before that appt goes out. I say this because undoubtedly somebody on these threads will get a dq and fear that they might lose the opportunity because they are fighting the dq because they are allergic to grass! DOn't fear that slate cannot go up until it is resolved or Mar when it closes.

    I will also state that our sons friend received only one nom (congressional) in Nov and had his appt the day befor Turkey day. The irony is that it was for the AFA and he applied for USNA. The number 1 (they did principal) for USNA wanted AFA, the parents called the MOC and they swapped them out. She is a cadet of 12 at the AFA, he is a cadet at the USNA for 12.
     
  19. mombee

    mombee Banned

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    Please keep in mind that application procedures are Academy specific and just because the AFA does things a certain way, does not necessarily mean that USMA or USNA do it the same. For example, the USNA board commences well before October and the whether or not a candidate has a nomination has no bearing on when and what files go before the board. And also USNA candidates may update their CFA.
     
  20. 2011's Mom

    2011's Mom Parent

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    That’s not quite accurate … your file will be reviewed as soon as it is complete (each SA begins reviews at different times, USMA is already reviewing files- I've heard of summer LOAs from USMA in the past, USAFA boards meet for the first time in early October and USNA typically in September). You do NOT need a nomination for your file to be reviewed by the board of any SA. You DO need a nomination to obtain an appointment. To bridge this gap, the SAs use the LOA process, typically stating that if a candidate obtains a nomination (or passes whatever is not done) they are assured an appointment.

    I think what Pima is also pointing out is that while you may go to the board before actually getting a nomination (and thus gain a WCS and possibility of an LOA) you will NOT get an appointment until after the noms are submitted AND all other files from the other candidates on your MOC slate are complete, including passing medical (assuming your MOC gives an unranked slate). If you have a Presidential nom you may get an early appointment, but you also might still have to wait a long time ....

    My strong suggestion is that you get your files complete as early as possible, continue to update them as you earn more awards or whatever, and then sit back and be prepared to wait. The wait may be long but getting an application in early really can help.
     

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