Pro's / Con's

Make one less B-2 and they could do a lot more than do it for everyone.

There is definitely something to be said for this. However; the same thing could be said for canceling many government tax payer funded programs. We could end world hunger; aids; disease; poverty; etc... Unfortunately however; we live in a world where 1) Not everyone in it has the same set of values, morals, or priorities. As such, we have to find way to appease many others instead of just our own opinions. 2) The larger picture needs to be looked at in all things. Sometimes the slightest change in one area; while it may seem to improve something; may trickle down and negatively affect something else. The "It's a Wonderful Life" syndrome. You just never know. later... mike...
 
Whats a mustang...? sorry >.<

"Mustang" is the Navy term given to Naval Officers who began as enlistedmen and then worked their way up to being an officer, but who didn't attend ROTC or USNA. They are a breed unto their own, and rightfully so.

I'm afraid I don't know if there is an equivalent term in the USAFA (or any other branch for that matter).
 
However; the same thing could be said for canceling many government tax payer funded programs.

Oh, NO you didn't! :sofa:

:yllol::yllol::yllol::yllol::yllol:



There is one other reason that more Service Academies aren't built.

Why are certain gemstones, Ferraris, 300-year-old bottles of brandy so expensive? BECAUSE THERE AREN'T MANY OF THEM. If they began building more SA's, the fact is that NONE of them would be as good as the ones we have now.
 
There are few $2 billion planes out there...or non DoD agencies that swing a few $2 billion bats.

Mustangs are Coast Guard or Navy personnel that started out as enlisted, made it to at least Chief (E-7) and then receive their commission as an officer.
 
There are few $2 billion planes out there...or non DoD agencies that swing a few $2 billion bats.

Nope.

But they DO swing several tens of billions of $1 chopsticks. It adds up. :wink:
 
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"Mustang" is the Navy term given to Naval Officers who began as enlistedmen and then worked their way up to being an officer, but who didn't attend ROTC or USNA. They are a breed unto their own, and rightfully so.


K, Thanks :smile:
 
Opportunity for training is a big benefit of USAFA. For example, several programs which were reportedly very competitive for ROTC cadets are either standard or mandatory for USAFA cadets. Space 251, aka the probation club (probationary 3 digs got into because they couldn't get jump or soaring), was a competitive program for the ROTC cadets involved. GE was also a competitive summer program, according to the ROTC guy who was in my summer GE group.

Then there are other programs, the Combat Shooting Team has quite a bit of support. I definitely could not have pursued shooting sports to the same level on my own budget/connections. It's nice when nationally known instructors offer to teach a class that would normally cost over $400 for each person, and do it for transportation costs. I don't know of any similar teams through civilian universities or clubs.

I consider myself very lucky to have done things like soaring, ops (with a hop to Spain), GE, help run BMT, be able to see inside an ICBM launch control center, compete in shooting sports, and more while paying very little, if anything to do all of that.

Plus, I get a very sound education and the opportunity for a great career.

Now, that's not to say everything smells like roses. Sure, some mandatory events are boring (some I'd even classify as a waste of time). The hours can be a bit rough (I'm not sure how those who got voluntold to do AETC liked working 12-16 hour days for the majority of their summer). Our school schedule is quite a bit longer than most college plans. Not being able to go into town because a few people in your squad messed up isn't very fun. A 7:30 schoolnight curfew isn't always treasured. Random urinalysis testing at 0530 doesn't win many points. The likelihood of being deployed after graduation isn't easy on families/marriages, nor is the possibility of greater sacrifices something most people are eager for.

Then again, some of the negatives really aren't. Was BCT worth it? YES! Do I want to do it again? HECK NO!...same with 4 degree year, recognition, etc.
 
A couple of things. When I was in the Marine Corps a Mustang was an officer that went thru the enlissted ranks first, they did not have to reach Gunny status to be considered a Mustang.

Also, could someone explain some of the terms used here, for exaple soaring, that are either unique to the AFA or to the AF? Maybe they were used in the Corps, but it has been so many years, I have forgot them.

Thanks
Devil Dog
 
Pros:
SNOW! :thumb:, community, cost, education, service, geography, uniforms (yeah, I'm one of the crazy public-schoolers who actually WANTS uniforms. They just make school better IMO)

Cons: Long school days, short breaks, mandatory events on weekends.

There are probably lots more for both categories, but I'll find those out when I go :wink:
 
Boys and girls... reality check here. The academies are not a "free" education. Remember, you will owe the Air Force 5 years active duty when you graduate and more in the reserves and even more if you learn to fly.

If you are a competitive candidate and money is an issue for your family, you should know that some really, really good schools, like Yale, will give you a truly free education. http://www.yale.edu/admit/freshmen/financial_aid/index.html

There's a lot of long winded, grandiose, bellicose bloviating on this site that sometimes seems like propaganda. :bsflagsmileyface: I know you come to this site looking for encouragement about the process but don't get brain washed. Don't do this to please or prove something to your mother, father, grandparents, Barack Obama. Do this because you want to, it's the only thing you can see yourself doing, and your world won't be right if you don't.

But have a backup plan just in case... :wink:
 
Pros:
SNOW! :thumb:, community, cost, education, service, geography, uniforms (yeah, I'm one of the crazy public-schoolers who actually WANTS uniforms. They just make school better IMO)

Cons: Long school days, short breaks, mandatory events on weekends.

There are probably lots more for both categories, but I'll find those out when I go :wink:

GO UNIFOMS and SNOW!!!:shake: LOL
 
Boys and girls... reality check here. The academies are not a "free" education. Remember, you will owe the Air Force 5 years active duty when you graduate and more in the reserves and even more if you learn to fly.


well, for some of us, that is free. No matter what, I am going to serve and protect our country, so that cost is negligible, and it should be for most, if not all people. We are getting this education to serve as better leaders.
 
Lilly brings up a great point that it is not truly FREE, but those planning on a military career anyway (like me), it really is free of charge, and I actually think it would give more back to me.

Think about what you really want, and the underlying reasons you want to go to an SA. I'm hoping they'll be somewhere along the lines of 1) serve my country, 2) get a great job in the best military in the world, 3) get a phenomenal education, 4) get to be challenged to my fullest potential, and most importantly 5) wear spiffy uniforms :wink:

only kidding about the last one, but the first four should definitely be in consideration no matter which academy you want.
 
Decisions

Do this because you want to, it's the only thing you can see yourself doing, and your world won't be right if you don't.

There's some wisdom, right there.

There are costs to any decision. By accepting an appointment, you are volunteering to lead an abnormal life (if there was such a thing as a "normal" one). You will be called on to do things you don't want to. Your hours will be whenever you are needed. You will, in all likelihood, be deployed to a not very pleasant place, at some point. you will probably have to put aside personal goals to ensure the success of your unit/mission. You could be forced to make life and death decisions, not just for yourself, but for those whose well-being you are entrusted with. The stakes may be VERY high, and you just joined the table. If those things don't hit you with a little more severity than a TV documentary, you really need to consider exactly what you are contemplating.

Even at the academy, we have some responsibilities to contemplate. Is my roommate doing OK? Am I taking care of the other 8 people in my element? They are developing the skills they need, right? None of them are in trouble for disciplinary, academic, athletic, or honor troubles, are they? I turned in my AFSC paperwork, right? Do I know where the emergency checklists are? If there was a fire, could I run through them quickly enough? Depending on the circumstance, each of these questions could have a long-term or severe consequence (sometimes both)...and that's barely hitting the surface of two squadron level cadet jobs.

Am I saying "Don't do it!" No, I am not. I am saying that, if you do not see yourself in Lilly's quote, you need to think about your decision very carefully. I couldn't have said "I know this is my route" when I started looking at the academy. After Summer Seminar, I could definitively say "This is the place." Even then, I didn't fully grasp the responsibilities and costs, however, some things come with any decision.
 
I know this thread has been going for quite a while. But there is so much good information in it. I really think it is probably one of the most educational threads that have been on this forum. Not just from some of the very experienced people who have gone through a lot of this as well as the current cadets; but also because of perspectives of the new applicants and others, has made this a powerful thread.

No matter how long you've wanted to apply/attend a military academy; and no matter whether you know what you want to do with your life after graduation; this thread has a very underlying question for each current and future cadet needs to ask themselves.

WHY DO I REALLY WANT TO GO TO THE ACADEMY?

I'm not saying that there are any right or wrong answers. Neither that some answers are better than others. But one thing I ask; and have always asked young men and women interested in the military when I was a recruiter and in other capacities; (Whether it's the academy, ROTC, or enlisting out of high school); is a simple yet complicated question.

"In your perfect dream world, if you were offered the scholarship to the school of your choice; or money was not an issue; and you got accepted to any school in the country; WOULD YOU CHOOSE THE MILITARY OVER THAT??? Obviously there are many different answers; especially for those who are enlisting and not trying to become commissioned officers. Many of them don't have the grades or the money to go to a prestigious college or the academy and sometimes ANY college. But if they DID have the grades and such; the military isn't usually their 1st choice of what to do after high school. There are some that have always wanted it, but not usually the majority.

Now the academy is different because just about every single cadet here and those considered competitive in the application process; does have the grades to go to numerous other colleges. When I ask those future cadets and prospects, I usually get 2 distinct answers. 1) The military/Air Force is all that I've ever really wanted; or something I've come to really want. I definitely would still choose the academy. 2) Well; if money wasn't an issue either internally or through scholarships; and I could get accepted to a list of other schools; I would probably take one of the other schools.

This is a very important question to ask yourselves. Why? Because this is your life. It's not your parent's, teacher's, family's; etc... it's yours. Let me clarify; there is NOTHING WRONG with applying and attending the academy or enlisting in the military in general, if you WOULD HAVE chosen something else if it were available. As long as you live up to your responsibilities; that is all that anyone SHOULD expect.

The reason I bring this up is because of 2 scenarios I have witnessed in the past so many times. 1) A person is so gung-ho wanting the academy. It's something they've always wanted. It's the ONLY thing they want. That they don't apply to other colleges. Or, they realize that if they don't get in they'll just go to "State or Community" college. I really think this is a shame. Because of the 10,000 that apply to the academy; the majority probably have excellent grades and such. Good enough to get into the academy. It's just that the academy can't take but around 1400. Even if the academy and military is your dream; you really need to have other schools lined up. Not just a "Safety" school in case you don't get in. But the Cornells, Princetons, Browns, USCs, William and Mary, Georgetown, etc... If you can get accepted into the air force academy, you can definitely get accepted to these other schools. You can use these avenues if the military is still your dream. If you care about serving that badly, then the military wants you and there are so many ways to serve.

2) The other scenario are those in a similar boat, but they probably would have taken a different course if it was made available. Again; NOTHING WRONG with applying and attending the academy if it isn't/wasn't your dream career your whole life and you wish you had other choices. Nothing wrong with this at all. However; a lot of these people do the same type of applying. Basically; military academies and the state university is their safety school. I'm here to tell you the same exact thing. If you're good enough to get into a military academy, you're good enough to get into most colleges and universities in the country. The key is to Not Sell Yourself Short. It's late in the year, but for those looking at applying to the academy next year or further on, keep this in mind. Apply to every school that interests you. NOT the one's that interest your parents. (Yes, there is some politics involved. Always apply to at least ONE that they want). And don't worry about the money. The money is there; it really is. Unfortunately, most of your parents and relatives (My generation); access to college was SO MUCH MORE DIFFICULT than it is today. But that is what THEY remember. They don't always have such updated information to tell you when you're growing up. To many kids by the time they are in Junior High have been told that they can only go to state university, community college, or the military because that's all "We Can Afford". SUCH A SHAME!!! So many schools have merit scholarships, private scholarships, grants, etc... It's easy. Anyway; make sure you are applying and chasing YOUR DREAM.

Whether the air force academy is one of your "SAFETY" schools; or whether the academy is your "PRIMARY" school; you should be applying to all the schools that YOU ARE INTERESTED IN. Both in case you don't get accepted to the academy and in case the academy isn't really your first choice. Get into the school you want. Of course there are some that have their heart set on only 1 or maybe 2 schools. And if they don't get accepted then they don't want anything else and go for their safety. Sorry, but you need to broaden your horizons. I.e. It is EASIER for a kid in texas to go to Washington State than it is to go to the University of Texas. But if you limit yourself to only certain choices, you'll never be happy.

And of course, there are plenty of cadets; whether the academy was 1st choice; 2nd choice; or safety school that applied to a lot of others. Good for them. Anyway; for those applying next year and in the future. Know why you are applying. Do it for yourself. Not your friends, family, the prestige, etc... Don't sell yourself short. Go after the education YOU WANT. And give yourself as many choices as possible. Best of luck.... Mike....
 
I know this thread has been going for quite a while. But there is so much good information in it. I really think it is probably one of the most educational threads that have been on this forum. Not just from some of the very experienced people who have gone through a lot of this as well as the current cadets; but also because of perspectives of the new applicants and others, has made this a powerful thread.

No matter how long you've wanted to apply/attend a military academy; and no matter whether you know what you want to do with your life after graduation; this thread has a very underlying question for each current and future cadet needs to ask themselves.

WHY DO I REALLY WANT TO GO TO THE ACADEMY?

I'm not saying that there are any right or wrong answers. Neither that some answers are better than others. But one thing I ask; and have always asked young men and women interested in the military when I was a recruiter and in other capacities; (Whether it's the academy, ROTC, or enlisting out of high school); is a simple yet complicated question.

"In your perfect dream world, if you were offered the scholarship to the school of your choice; or money was not an issue; and you got accepted to any school in the country; WOULD YOU CHOOSE THE MILITARY OVER THAT??? Obviously there are many different answers; especially for those who are enlisting and not trying to become commissioned officers. Many of them don't have the grades or the money to go to a prestigious college or the academy and sometimes ANY college. But if they DID have the grades and such; the military isn't usually their 1st choice of what to do after high school. There are some that have always wanted it, but not usually the majority.

Now the academy is different because just about every single cadet here and those considered competitive in the application process; does have the grades to go to numerous other colleges. When I ask those future cadets and prospects, I usually get 2 distinct answers. 1) The military/Air Force is all that I've ever really wanted; or something I've come to really want. I definitely would still choose the academy. 2) Well; if money wasn't an issue either internally or through scholarships; and I could get accepted to a list of other schools; I would probably take one of the other schools.

This is a very important question to ask yourselves. Why? Because this is your life. It's not your parent's, teacher's, family's; etc... it's yours. Let me clarify; there is NOTHING WRONG with applying and attending the academy or enlisting in the military in general, if you WOULD HAVE chosen something else if it were available. As long as you live up to your responsibilities; that is all that anyone SHOULD expect.

The reason I bring this up is because of 2 scenarios I have witnessed in the past so many times. 1) A person is so gung-ho wanting the academy. It's something they've always wanted. It's the ONLY thing they want. That they don't apply to other colleges. Or, they realize that if they don't get in they'll just go to "State or Community" college. I really think this is a shame. Because of the 10,000 that apply to the academy; the majority probably have excellent grades and such. Good enough to get into the academy. It's just that the academy can't take but around 1400. Even if the academy and military is your dream; you really need to have other schools lined up. Not just a "Safety" school in case you don't get in. But the Cornells, Princetons, Browns, USCs, William and Mary, Georgetown, etc... If you can get accepted into the air force academy, you can definitely get accepted to these other schools. You can use these avenues if the military is still your dream. If you care about serving that badly, then the military wants you and there are so many ways to serve.

2) The other scenario are those in a similar boat, but they probably would have taken a different course if it was made available. Again; NOTHING WRONG with applying and attending the academy if it isn't/wasn't your dream career your whole life and you wish you had other choices. Nothing wrong with this at all. However; a lot of these people do the same type of applying. Basically; military academies and the state university is their safety school. I'm here to tell you the same exact thing. If you're good enough to get into a military academy, you're good enough to get into most colleges and universities in the country. The key is to Not Sell Yourself Short. It's late in the year, but for those looking at applying to the academy next year or further on, keep this in mind. Apply to every school that interests you. NOT the one's that interest your parents. (Yes, there is some politics involved. Always apply to at least ONE that they want). And don't worry about the money. The money is there; it really is. Unfortunately, most of your parents and relatives (My generation); access to college was SO MUCH MORE DIFFICULT than it is today. But that is what THEY remember. They don't always have such updated information to tell you when you're growing up. To many kids by the time they are in Junior High have been told that they can only go to state university, community college, or the military because that's all "We Can Afford". SUCH A SHAME!!! So many schools have merit scholarships, private scholarships, grants, etc... It's easy. Anyway; make sure you are applying and chasing YOUR DREAM.

Whether the air force academy is one of your "SAFETY" schools; or whether the academy is your "PRIMARY" school; you should be applying to all the schools that YOU ARE INTERESTED IN. Both in case you don't get accepted to the academy and in case the academy isn't really your first choice. Get into the school you want. Of course there are some that have their heart set on only 1 or maybe 2 schools. And if they don't get accepted then they don't want anything else and go for their safety. Sorry, but you need to broaden your horizons. I.e. It is EASIER for a kid in texas to go to Washington State than it is to go to the University of Texas. But if you limit yourself to only certain choices, you'll never be happy.

And of course, there are plenty of cadets; whether the academy was 1st choice; 2nd choice; or safety school that applied to a lot of others. Good for them. Anyway; for those applying next year and in the future. Know why you are applying. Do it for yourself. Not your friends, family, the prestige, etc... Don't sell yourself short. Go after the education YOU WANT. And give yourself as many choices as possible. Best of luck.... Mike....

I think the majority of us in this forum would reject any scholarship to Yale or Harvard if it meant an appointment to the Academy. I know I would. Otherwise I would go to CC and look up any of those schools and go crazy with the posting.

Just saying,
Good stuff. We're just the wrong people to tell it to. Maybe this should be sticky-posted for newcomers to see and read at first glance so that they can get an idea of what they are getting themselves into, according to those who know about the subject.
 
great thread CC, I always enjoy reading your elaborate and honest pieces of writing.
btw, there goes your new years resolution :biggrin:
 
Yup on the New Years resolution. Let me try and make up for it.

unitedstatesAFA2013; I know you don't think it applies to you, and it probably doesn't. But just because there's only 8-10 people posting in this thread doesn't mean there aren't a lot more lurkers reading them.

How's that for trying to redeem myself? :biggrin:
 
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