Questions for the experts

Discussion in 'Nominations' started by dreinecke, Jan 10, 2009.

  1. dreinecke

    dreinecke Member

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    Hello! Let me first thank you for the information I've seen members here post in regards to the many questions both applicants and parents have. I am a parent of a currently qualified applicant to the AFA, his name is Chris.

    His test scores are all very high (sorry I don't have them, I'm at his wrestling tournament at the moment), he has a 3.84GPA, is 63rd in a class of 363, wrestles, runs track, is an Eagle Scout, involved in several community and civics clubs, NHS, Boy's State participant, etc.

    He is qualified and was given NOM interviews by both of his Senators and MOC. He did not receive a nomination, but several of his school friends did. He was obviously disappointed, but is continuing to press on. One strike is that he only wanted the AFA as his SA of choice. He knows this limited his chances. Throughout this process, he has kept in almost weekly contact with his AOL. His AOL tells him that he is not out of the AFA hunt, but is also nominating him as his choice for the AFROTC Scholarship at the Colorado School of Mines, where Chris has been accepted.

    Being in Colorado, about 5 miles from the AFA, we understand that this is a highly competitive area. However, we do have a few questions:

    Without the Nomination, besides the constant contact with the AOL, is there anyone else Chris should be talking with to keep himself visible?

    Also, as an AFROTC nominee, he was told that after the interview at CU Boulder this month, if he were accepted, he'd only have two weeks to accept this nomination. The real question is what this does if he is a late AFA notification? While AFA is his first choice, he certainly doesn't wish to lose another possible method to getting through college and into the Air Force, which is his final goal.

    Has anyone had experience with the ROTC scholarship process?

    Thank you for your time in advance.
     
  2. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Most every kid for the AFA will also apply for the ROTC scholarship. My 1st question is for clarification

    Is he a AFROTC nominee for the AFA (ROTC does get to nominate cadets). Or are you saying he would be an AFROTC scholarship recipient. TWO different things. One is for the AFA and 1 is for any university.

    Your ALO will be able to give the best assistance on the AFA route to keep plowing along. Otherwise you might want to do 1 of 2 things on this site.
    A. PM flieger since he is a current ALO and would have the most knowledge in assisting you for general info.
    B. Start a thread saying something alon the lines NO NOM NOW WHAT? Many people can chime in, b/c very few kids have the same experience in getting in.

    Now as for the AFROTC scholarship, DS was allowed months to respond( I think it was @ April 15th or May 1st), as people know from another thread, he responded within days. They may have changed the regs, but look into it.
    He also might have a short window, b/c if he is only interviewing this month, he will not go up until the Feb board and it takes about 6 weeks for the result, placing him with notification in April, which would make sense of only 2 weeks.

    He will not have his answer for scholarship for a while, so he keep plowing foward. Also, just because you don't get a scholarship doesn't mean you cannot join ROTC. In DS's det only about 30% are on scholarship, the rest will still be commissioned just like DS as a 2nd Lt., they just never got financial aid. Scholarships are competitive esp. for a non-engineering degree. It looks like on paper he has a good chance for one.

    The only thing to prepare him for is that the AF has limited funds for scholarships, so when the money runs out so do the chances. Tell him not to dispair a friend of ours son at OSU is now on scholarship as a sophomore,, he didn't get one as a freshman. It is not that they aren't worthy, it really comes down to a budget. Like I said before the tech fields are where they like to place their money, so if he is not in that field it becomes even harder. Type 7 seems like the scholarship you would be going for, which is their bulk of scholarships.

    I am sure you know this link already, but maybe somewhere you can find more info. I recall that our DS received a letter stating his file was complete and what board he was going up on, with a POC name on it. Maybe your ALO knows who the POC is for Maxwell. Have your son call, it looks more professional.
    http://www.afrotc.com/scholarships/hsschol/types.php
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2009
  3. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Got me curious so I trolled around the scholarship site. Whoever told you that he had 2 weeks was wrong...at least for determining if you will accept the scholarship



    Hereis the link for critical dates
    http://www.afrotc.com/scholarships/hsschol/criticalDates.php

    Here's another link for parents.
    http://www.afrotc.com/faqs/parentQues.php

    I would suggest if this thread moves more to ROTC that it should be moved over to the ROTC thread by the moderators.
     
  4. FallenAngel77

    FallenAngel77 Member

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    All hope is not lost. My son did not receive a nomination to AFA last year (he did receive noms to USMA and USNA) but was contacted by the AFA and offered a Falcon Foundation scholarship. It would require your son to put in an additional year but from what I have seen this year (my son accepted a similar offer West Point) a year at "civilian prep" is well worth the time. Good luck.
     
  5. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator Moderator

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    I was a Falcon Foundation scholar...as were about 45 of my USAFA classmates.

    If you get a call/letter about the FF...trust me, they are VERY interested in you.
     
  6. 2011's Mom

    2011's Mom Parent

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    This situation is difficult. Chris has other avenues of nomination - did he apply for the VP? There are not many of those but it's possible. He could get a sup nom. Both the VP & sup noms are given by AFA. Be prepared, these are the last appointments given so be patient. You asked who to talk to other than your ALO - the ALO is a good start - keep in touch. You also should have your son (not you) contact his admissions rep at AFA. He has nothing to lose & everything to gain. So - call to talk about his file. Most candidates do not contact the admissions rep directly (they seem to be be more comfortable with the ALO route) but doing so makes your son much more than a file full of papers & numbers to the admissions rep. Heck - you're in C-Springs - Chris can even ask to make an appointment to "go over his file" to ensure everything is current. They are major busy right now & may decline but at least try. He may just get voice mail - so leave a nice message & call again tomorrow, & the next day. The idea is to make sure that what you can build you build - DESIRE. He must show the depth of his desire. Also - be sure that his file has everything current - current grades, scores etc. Relay the message that, if given the opportunity, he will not only attend AFA but he will graduate ... He will do whatever it takes to get in and once there, he will put forth every effort and do whatever it takes to graduate.

    Chris is in a very tough spot - a SA cannot give an appointment without a nom because the nom is the authorization from Congress to spend money - AFA cannot spend $ without congressional approval - so they cannot just hand out appointments to anyone. The VP also technically presides over the senate hence the noms allotment there and congress gives the sup authority to nominate as well - those are limited - but can be used in your situation. So Chris needs to become one of those noms.

    All that being said, for Chris to have interviewed for 3 sources & not gotten one indicates he is in a competitive district and a competitive candidate. To say that listing only one SA was a limitation is, in my opinion, a misnomer. If Chris is only willing to go to AFA then why seek a nom elsewhere? He needs to tell the admissions rep that he only wants to go to AFA - AFA is his 1st choice and if he doesn't get in, he'll apply next year and the year after - he'd consider prep school etc.... Point out that while others may seek noms/appointment to several SAs, he only sought a nom to AFA because he is going into the AF one way or another and to apply at another SA would have been inappropriate. When I see kids with one SA selected, I ask why that SA and not another ... if they can articulate a good and thorough understanding of the SA for which they are applying then they are sitting great. If they respond in a way that tells me they have limited understanding of the other SA's or services then it could be a limitation because it tells me they have not evaluated their options and, more importantly, their inner desire. If Chris knows the AF and what going to AFA is all about - and knows the other services as well and still only wants AFA, then great - LET IT BE KNOWN.

    I cannot respond very well to the ROTC side of the question but I have seen many ROTC scholarship recipients accept the ROTC and then show up at a SA with a late appointment. Perhaps it differs by SA or maybe by school - I don't know for sure. I know there are parents on this forum (or cc) that had kids accept an ROTC scholarship and then end up at a SA that same year - don't know the particulars but it has occurred.

    Good luck and let us know how it works out.
     
  7. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    To add onto 2011 about VP, I can't remember who on this forum received a VP...I believe it was to the USMA...but he got it and so keep the faith. As I recall he got a nom and appt to USNA, but none to USMA. If the AFA wants him, he can still be brought in that way.
     
  8. 2011's Mom

    2011's Mom Parent

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    Hopefully he applied for a VP, if he didn't apply he can't get it (an an awful lot don't because they think it is such a long shot). This is a good example of why everyone should apply for every nominating source for which they qualify! It's a long shot but if USAFA wants him it's clear shot - so make yourself wanted by USAFA.
     
  9. dreinecke

    dreinecke Member

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    Questions & Answers

    Thank you all very much for responding, we sincerely appreciate it.

    Please let me clarify a few quick things, and then I'll answer a few of the questions that have been asked of us.

    First, I completely understand the questions of ensuring that Chris is doing all of the calling and contacting. I assure you that he is, and that this is my first contact of any kind in regards to the AFA on this board. He has done the entire process on his own, and in my humble opinion as a father, has done a great job in handling everything. He's very organized and contacts the AOL completely on his own. As a funny aside, when he was to meet with his AOL for his interview, he was asked to appear at a library to do so at a specific time. Chris looked up the directions as he was going by himself and noticed that the library was not open at this time. He responded to the AOL with his findings and suggested a specific time when it was open. His AOL's comment back was that he just passed his first test. So, I'm thankful that he has turned out to have common sense as well as a good mind.

    He is sincerely dedicated to the AF only. He did have the Merchant Marine Academy very interested in him, but he honestly told them that his only choice was the AFA. As a result, that is how he applied, and we appreciated the comments from 2011's Mom about just that subject. He is even so honest a young man as to have put on his application and entrance letters that he is interested in flying, but is wanting to try the programs at the AFA to ensure that it suits him before committed to being a pilot as he does have other interests. He really was concerned that by not stating that being a pilot was his absolute passion that he would not have as good of a shot. He was willing to risk this in order to be completely honest.

    As for the AFROTC, his AOL has told him that he is his nomination for the scholarship. There is a pool of other nominees that are vying for the same scholarship, so he knows it will be tough. He is awaiting a few answers from the Detachment in regards to an interview as well as the timeline. After reading the provided links (thank you!), we believe that your posts on these are correct. So, we'll have to see where that leads him.

    Chris has applied for the VP NOM and did so at the earliest time it was allowed. He had the exact same feeling that has been posted here, and that was to apply for everything he could.

    He has also made it clear during his AOL interview and in other places that he would take the Prep School option if he needed to.

    His only goal is to be an Officer in the United States Air Force! His first wish is to do so via the AFA, but he will get there even if it means regular ROTC, an ROTC scholarship, or Prep. His determination is what his AOL likes about him, and knowing this kid the way I do, I know he'll get there.

    He had discussed talking with the Admissions Rep., but speaks to his AOL often and was not sure he needed to. After reading the responses here, he is calling them Monday to see if he can have an appointment to come in person. As was pointed out, it's only a few minutes away.

    Thank you all for your answers! We'll continue to monitor the forums and we'll let you know how things progress.

    Sincerely,

    David Reinecke, Chris's father
     
  10. 2011's Mom

    2011's Mom Parent

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    I like your response tremendously. I hope he is successful in getting the ear of his admissions rep - can't hurt & could help. He sounds like a great candidate for AFA or ROTC and either way the Air force will have a great officer one day.

    As to the flying - I do not personally see that as a detriment - only about half of the class get flight spots. In my experience, a big number do not say they want to be pilots. A large number are on these forums that clearly want to fly - but in my experience over the years many kids tell me they do not want to fly. Add to that my own D & her friends (also cadets at AFA) I can think of numerous that have no interest at all in flying ... my own D told AFA and the nom committee that she didn't want to fly. I don't see that as a deal breaker.

    Good luck and let us know how it goes.
     
  11. jennyp

    jennyp Parent

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    Would he be open to reapplying next year? My son, USNA candidate, has a ROTC "back up" plan and says he will apply again if unsuccessful this year. I have been told that as much as 20% of any USNA class comes from college....don't have that verified, but do know that it is not uncommon.
     
  12. kicker1

    kicker1 Member

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    I am in the same position as your son. I split my nominations and received my USNA nom from my MOC but no nom for USAFA from either of my senators. I have had multiple discussions with my ALO and my mom spoke to the admissions rep at Air Force (I left messages but was always in school) They let us know that because my whole person score is very strong and I am PPQ'd I have a decent shot at a sup nom. I am not counting on anything, but it left me with a some hope. Good Luck to your son!!!!
     
  13. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Our friends son from CO got a nom to the AFA, but not the USNA (he had an LOA to there) they called the MOC and found out there was a girl with the exact opposite sit. They switched their names on the list and he is at USNA. BTW he only had 1 nom in total, it was from his cong. in case that helps people from comp. areas.

    Not saying every MOC can do that or will do that, but had they not looked into it a little deeper nobody knows if he would be at USNA now.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2009
  14. dreinecke

    dreinecke Member

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    Updates

    Thanks everyone for your help. We very much appreciate it.

    Jenny, he has been very adamant that he'd go Prep if he needs to in order to get in.

    It has been a crazy week! After my last post, Chris was contacted and is driving to Boulder tomorrow right after school to meet with the Col. at Det 105 for his AFROTC Scholarship interview. Wow! That was very fast. I'll let you know how it turns out. He is grateful to have a shot at this, but is still pressing forward on the AFA.

    He has also contacted the Admissions office, however as he is in school, they are playing phone tag. He'll be talking with them tomorrow afternoon while I drive him to Boulder. Hopefully he'll be able to speak with them in person.

    Good luck Kicker, it sounds like you've got the right attitude as well.
     
  15. dreinecke

    dreinecke Member

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    Update 1/15/09

    We just got back from Boulder for Chris's AFROTC interview. He was very pleased with the interview itself and said that the Officers conducting it were very sharp! He was happy that they had really reviewed his resume and had very good questions regarding his activities and achievements. He came away with the impression that they liked how well-rounded he was between athletics, academics, civic activities, and his music. He's a pianist, in multiple choirs (selected to the Colorado All-State choir for the second year in a row this year), and performs in multiple school productions.

    He was also able to speak with several ROTC members while waiting for his interview and came away impressed with them as well. This interview is for the 1 non-panel Scholarship that the Detachment is allowed to award based purely on the interview and nominations by the ALO. I apologize for the lack of information, we're just coming up to speed on the AFROTC scholarship process. He's always stated that he'd be happy to do ROTC if not selected for the AFA, however, he'd not done enough investigation into the scholarship program. Until now...

    On the way to Boulder, he was able to contact his Admissions Rep., who did not sound thrilled with him coming to speak with them. They did not understand why he wanted to, and he got the distinct impression that they did not really wish him to come review his file and speak with them. They did set up an appointment for next week, but then called back to our home (we were on the road) to inform him that the day selected did not work after all.

    So, the real question is should he continue to press to meet with them, or just continue on the path he is on with his ALO only?

    I'll begin posting the ROTC questions in that section, as we certainly don't wish to go on different tangents in the wrong areas. We're just shocked how fast things like this go once they begin to happen.

    Thank you all again for your help!

    David & Chris
     
  16. 2011's Mom

    2011's Mom Parent

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    It's a touchy question - they are very very busy right now. I know of people who have gone to sit with them to "go over their file" - though honestly none at this time in the game (usually in the fall). It really depends on how your son feels about it. A face to face will defeat the purpose if it is filled with unease and tension ... The point is to convey the level of his desire - it may do just as much good to have just made the call - or perhaps it would be as effective to do it by phone if that is easier for admissions. Consider returning the call & offer to re-schedule it or offering to confer over the phone, if that is more convenient for them ... Convey the message that he wants to confirm they have all current information and ask them if there is any area that the admissions rep sees that may be lacking or that he should shore up a little bit. He should convey to the admissions rep that USAFA is his absolute first choice school and, if given the opportunity to attend, he would not only accept the appointment but he is committed to achieving his absolute full potential... the point is not to really see if they have everything but rather to highlight his high points and underscore his commitment level. If meeting in person is a hindrance to admissions because they are busy - or if to do so would be awkward and non-productive then an alternate plan should be considered. Call admissions back and gauge what to do based on the response.

    On another note - you actually got a call back from admissions - I have noticed in these forums that recently there are many that indicate they are not getting any calls back ... I am glad to hear that his admissions rep called him back. In your earlier post you even said that they are playing phone tag, implying that they have called back a few times ...
    .
     
  17. rnmomkidzs

    rnmomkidzs Member

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    My s's situation is also similar--had to split noms--received one for USNA none for USAFA. He JUST received an LOA for USAFA yesterday. What is very frustrating is that we get conflicting answers from the admissions office. The civilian admissions reps while very pleasant, seem to give contradictory information and their answers can be game changers. One of them very specifically reassured us about the situation (even prior to receiving the LOA) because of my son's extremely high WPS and PPQ that a sup nom was very likely and NOT to try to trade out his Navy nom. When he received the LOA yesterday he called back (he was a bit confused because of the emphasis on the nom--as they clearly know he is not going to receive one) to talk about it and was told by another rep that no one in the admissions office was even allowed to discuss the option of a superintendent nomination and he ought to call the MOC to see if he could trade out the NAVY nom, as we believe that their are slots available on the Air Force slate--directly contradicting the other admissions rep. This rep seemed a bit taken aback that he even mentioned the possibility of a sup nomination. Does anyone with a lot of wisdom know if there is anyone to get definitive answers from? A LE Mulllen (DODMERB) of admissions perhaps? Our ALO is not really any help at this point and we need to contact our Congressman and Navy asap if that is the direction we need to pursue....
     
  18. 2011's Mom

    2011's Mom Parent

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    Admissions reps are very probably not allowed to “discuss” a sup nom. That doesn’t really surprise me. That doesn’t, however, mean that they don’t know about them or how they work within the system.

    At this point you have nothing to lose and everything to gain ... have son call the MOC and tell them about the LOA (they know your son has it, but tell them anyway). Ask them if there is anyway for them to provide a USAFA nom. The reality is that admissions does not want to use a sup nom on anyone that can get a MOC nom. They want your MOC to give you a USAFA nom. You said that admissions knows that you do not have a USAFA nom - that tells me that your MOC has submitted his slate. It also sounds like after the slate was submitted then USAFA sent the LOA. That conveys a strong message ... If you believe there is room on the slate (did your MOC submit a slate of under 10?) then ask the MOC for a USAFA nom outright, no need to “trade” a USNA for it. If there is no room on the slate, then it will become more difficult.

    Did your son apply for a VP nom? How about your Senators? Is USAFA his first choice or is USNA his first choice?

    By the way - act on this quickly because noms must be in by Jan 31st so any additions or changes your MOC wants to make need to be made soon ... Some MOCs won’t make changes others will. It depends on the staffer. An experienced staffer will know how best to manage the slate - an LOA without a nom is a difficult thing for a MOC office... it is in their best interest to find a way to get the nom to your son because that is a guaranteed appointment ... even MOCs who are not military supporters do like to have kids in the SAs so giving you a nom, if at all possible, is in the interest of the MOC as well. In my experience, the staffer will make an effort to shuffle things around to get your son a nom. But - your son has to take the initiative and ask. It would be good for him to also re-convey the message that if given the nom he will go to USAFA putting forth his utmost effort to become the best officer he can become. MOCs track their SA students and when one leaves it is not good for the MOC. There are a lot of reasons or that, but I won’t go into that right now. Suffice it to say, however, that the MOC wants to be sure that cadets/mids from their district go to the SA and graduate .... An LOA is as much an assurance from the SA to the MOC as it is to the candidate. All that being said, if a MOC nom cannot be accomplished, the SA can give a sup nom. But the SA is not required to give the sup nom (which is why it is better for you to get the MOC to do it).
     
  19. rnmomkidzs

    rnmomkidzs Member

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    Son's LOA was received yesterday. We are assuming the academy is aware of his nomination status as this was discussed at length with the rep that told him not to worry about it because of his high score and desirability and the likelihood of the sups nom. When he called last night after receiving the LOA however, the rep he spoke to was very clear about "not wanting to get his hopes up." Again mixed messages and not a lot of clarity about who knows what. That is precisely why we wish we could speak to someone who has some answers--he certainly does not want to rock the boat (oops USNA speak) further though.
    Nominations were split--Navy was Rep and VP, Senators were USAFA. Navy nom came from Rep. His nom is posted on the USNA Candidate info system so it may be too late to do anything at this point. One of our Senators is no longer an option--he is the President as of Tuesday-:thumb: The other was contacted several weeks ago--prior to receiving the LOA--we were told there just were NO nominations to be had--it was very competitive this year--300 plus applicants. Just the same, son sent a letter with the LOA enclosed today--Thanking the Senator and requesting that he keep him in mind if his slate should open up.
    In any case, given your wisdom, we may call the reps liaison just to talk--he is a very approachable guy and happens to be from our town. Perhaps he has some other work around or advice. If not, son will just have to cross his fingers and wait. It is not exactly a terrible position to be in. A nomination and triple Q'd to one SA, a LOA, very high WPS and PPQ'd, to another.......
     
  20. 2011's Mom

    2011's Mom Parent

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    rnmomkidzs - i am sending you a PM ...
     

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