Russia/Ukraine

[A1Janitor]

If someone only wants to support the good guys and only wants to help the innocent civilians I suggest the Peace Corps not the Marine Corps or any other of the US military.

We have supported and will in the future support some of the worst (Stalin) the world has to offer, some of the most anti democratic individuals and groups (SVN for example or nationalist China or those running Cuba at the time) because it suits our national interest to do so at that point in time.

This is the way of the world

We need to get to the bottom of the grift and corruption that western leaders were a part of in Ukraine.

And take a more critical look at the russian hoax. They did that for more than mean tweets and conservative policies.

We also should study the bioterrorism/Covid.

 

[THParent]

Way to show unity. You should feel a real sense of personal pride. Do you even know who the good guys are?

Huh?

 

[Small Team Bacsi]

edited

 

[Anonymous121]

This is the way of the world

Unfortunately the "way of the world" has been to subsidize global defense with American money and troops while other rich European countries boast massive social programs. Trump was right in the sense that Europe needs to pay and take care of their own share of peace and safety in the world instead of relying on us to spend more per year on DoD budget than all of our other allies combined.

 

[A1Janitor]

At last try and not make everything political.

As you know by now this will just be another thread the mods will shut down

Your comments about covid are very well known and off topic on this thread.

I wasn’t making this political at all.

 

[Small Team Bacsi]

I edited my post to not respond to you

 

[palmettoag]

I am reading 49 sensitive emails from US Intelligence contractor that Wikileaks released. Insane stuff

Link?

 

[A1Janitor]

Link?

https://twitter.com/x/status/331839077227831296

 

[NJROTC-CC]

Russian stock market crashes and ruble at all time low. I would not be surprised if the oligarchs decide to whack Putin

 

[Lambda]

Russian stock market crashes and ruble at all time low. I would not be surprised if the oligarchs decide to whack Putin

That's a nice thought, but I don't think it's realistic. The Russian economy will likely recover in the long term, and support in Europe to completely cut themselves off from the Russian energy supply does not yet seem strong enough to accomplish anything. Putin also has a very strong power base, and he's always been careful to ensure he maintains his power over the oligarchs. I seem to recall that Putin himself has taken actions against some of the Russian elite, likely those that did not support him enough. Regardless, it is highly unlikely that Putin hasn't already considered this possibility and is already prepared for some internal resistance.

 

[NJROTC-CC]

That's a nice thought, but I don't think it's realistic. The Russian economy will likely recover in the long term, and support in Europe to completely cut themselves off from the Russian energy supply does not yet seem strong enough to accomplish anything. Putin also has a very strong power base, and he's always been careful to ensure he maintains his power over the oligarchs. I seem to recall that Putin himself has taken actions against some of the Russian elite, likely those that did not support him enough. Regardless, it is highly unlikely that Putin hasn't already considered this possibility and is already prepared for some internal resistance.

We will see. I don't see how it benefits Russian to spend a ton of resources to annex the poorest county in Europe. Not to mention the sanctions.

 

[A6E Dad]

We will see. I don't see how it benefits Russian to spend a ton of resources to annex the poorest county in Europe. Not to mention the sanctions.

Russia wants a puppet government in Ukraine as a buffer between them and NATO, they want resources (Ukraine is the 'breadbasket of Europe), and they want warm water ports, among other things.

The 'swift and serious' sanctions haven't been very swift, are being rolled out in phases, and NATO countries are already pressuring to water them down, due to the their predicted negative impact. None of the big ticket segments of the Russian economy are being targeted, and it doesn't look like they will be.

None of this was ever going to deter Putin

 

[Lambda]

We will see. I don't see how it benefits Russian to spend a ton of resources to annex the poorest county in Europe. Not to mention the sanctions.

I agree, it probably won't be a huge benefit. The Russian economy will definitely be strained, but I don't see a complete collapse happening so easily. Unless some extremely harsh sanctions are applied by most of Europe and the US it doesn't seem very likely that huge problems for Russia will arise.

 

[Korab]

Seems like this would be a good time to be energy independent instead of buying oil from Russia.

 

[Lambda]

Russia wants a puppet government in Ukraine as a buffer between them and NATO, they want resources (Ukraine is the 'breadbasket of Europe), and they want warm water ports, among other things.

The 'swift and serious' sanctions haven't been very swift, are being rolled out in phases, and NATO countries are already pressuring to water them down, due to the their predicted negative impact. None of the big ticket segments of the Russian economy are being targeted, and it doesn't look like they will be.

None of this was ever going to deter Putin

I agree. Unless some serious sanctions, especially to the Russian energy sector, are applied, the effects won't really be felt by Russian elites. I also believe Russia pays Ukraine to send gas through their country, so that cost would likely become minimal or just a way to support a new puppet Ukraine with direct payments.

 

[NJROTC-CC]

 

[Lambda]

View attachment 11311

I don't think anyone here is claiming that Ukraine is chock-full of gold for Putin to easily seize. It is simply that the cost of seizing Ukraine will not be particularly high. Ukraine is also rich in resources and has a GDP measuring around 155 billion as of 2020. The cost of occupation will undoubtedly be expensive, but without real sanctions or action from the west, the Russian economy will recover. Of course, Russia could also pivot to China if so required. Only time will tell if invading Ukraine was a mistake, but based on the information it does not seem like it will cripple Russia.

 

[cb7893]

If I'm bent on expanding my country's influence, all I need to hear from the USA is:

"..it depends on what it <Russia> does. It's one thing if it's a minor incursion and then we end up fighting about what to do and not do, etcetera, but if they actually do what they're capable of doing with the force amassed on the border, it is going to be a disaster for Russia...if they further engrage [sic] me..."

Nice example to set for aspiring Military Officers. Or is this an invitation to compare the greatest hits of the CIC with those of his predecessors?

 

[cb7893]

I am against the invasion by Russia.

Something else we agree on.

We need to get to the bottom of the grift and corruption that western leaders were a part of in Ukraine.

By all means, let's get on top of this immediately.

And take a more critical look at the russian hoax.

That was already settled in Helsinski back in 2018. The IC was wrong in their assessment. It was confirmed by Putin.

 

[THParent]

If I'm bent on expanding my country's influence, all I need to hear from the USA is:

"..it depends on what it <Russia> does. It's one thing if it's a minor incursion and then we end up fighting about what to do and not do, etcetera, but if they actually do what they're capable of doing with the force amassed on the border, it is going to be a disaster for Russia...if they further engrage [sic] me..."

But hey, Putin says he's going in to save the Ukraians from a genocide perpetrated by their government and "denazify" them.
Apparently, they're Nazis. Who knew?

Way to show unity. You should feel a real sense of personal pride. Do you even know who the good guys are?

You know that I wasn't saying that, right? I quoted The Leader of The Free World there. He said that on January 19th.

Of course, within an hour, Jen Psaki clarified exactly what he was scripted to say (but didn't actually say), just to clear it up for everyone in case they actually paid any attention whatsoever to the press conference debacle. The next day, POTUS clarified that he didn't know what he was talking about at the previous day's press conference and took a more hard-line stance. All better, probably. Come on, man!™

Meanwhile, back at the Kremlin...