Sad news Part 2

Discussion in 'Air Force Academy - USAFA' started by aglages, Feb 10, 2013.

  1. aglages

    aglages Parent

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  2. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator Moderator

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    Folks...please let's not go here until USAFA says anything.

    There was an incident...please let it go until the Official Statement comes out.

    Steve
    USAFA ALO
    USAFA '83
     
  3. aglages

    aglages Parent

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  4. flyerdreamer

    flyerdreamer USAFA alumnus and parent

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  5. Skymom

    Skymom Member

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    My spouse works on the AFA and he forwarded me the email about the cadets death and I recognized the name right away.

    Jim answered lots of questions about LEAD applications, prior service applicants and the Prep School.

    I was very sad when I got the email and recognized the name. :frown:
     
  6. tug_boat

    tug_boat Member

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    I'm Sorry For Your Loss

    A heart felt sorry to the family of this young man, who had the world by the tail.
     
  7. AFLEADMOM

    AFLEADMOM Member

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    I saw this post this morning and am just sick about it. :frown:

    My prayers are with the family.
     
  8. navy83

    navy83 Member

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    Jim had so much going for him. This is truly a tragedy. God bless this young man and his family!
     
  9. stella

    stella Member

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    Handling of Situation

    In these types of circumstances (a death at a SA), is the official cause of death ever released? Also, I would imagine that there would be extra counselors, etc. on site for students to speak with?

    This is very sad news indeed. Just wondering how the academy handles it in house and in terms of public information.

    S
     
  10. aggie83

    aggie83 Member

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    If you have a cadet, ask them. They usually know through their network of cadets.

    There have been 3 on campus deaths (non vehicular related) since our son was a freshman. I have seen nothing come out officially citing the cause of death. The 1st one, however, in the fall of 2009, the cadet's mother spoke to the cause at the memorial service.

    There was one on campus death involving a single vehicle where I did see a followup report that alcohol was not involved.
     
  11. aggie83

    aggie83 Member

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    If you have a cadet, ask them. They usually know through their network of cadets.

    There have been 3 on campus deaths (non vehicular related) since our son was a freshman. I have seen nothing come out officially citing the cause of death in any of them. The 1st one, however, in the fall of 2010, the cadet's mother spoke to the cause at the memorial service. Our son was a sophomore, the deceased cadet was a senior that he ate lunch with at his table. It was a very upsetting time.

    There was one on campus death involving a single vehicle where I did see a followup report that alcohol was not involved. I had been looking for some report since this cadet was also in my son's squadron.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2013
  12. momxthree

    momxthree New Member

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    The response we normally get is, "We are not supposed to talk about it. Imagine if it were your family. It's their personal business." Our cadet is pretty open about most things but not these incidents or any of the rituals.
     
  13. aglages

    aglages Parent

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    The above advice is probably not too helpful if you are a candidate for USAFA, or a parent. This is not a topic which we are encouraged to discuss on this site. The following may be helpful.
    http://annemartinfletcher.wordpress.com/2013/02/11/sadness-to-anger/
     
  14. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    agagles,

    If I am correct that blogger has been banned from this site and other AF forums, she went as far as quoting posters on this site, in a bad way, warping it to fit her negative views of the military

    The ban happened about 2 yrs ago when she came on this site and asked posters to discuss the faults of the AFA, only to quote them later on out of context.

    Really? Name the cadets! She can't.

    Maybe I am wrong, but I think I am correct.

    Her desire is to hurt the AFA. Read that blog. Her bio:

    I get that parent's and candidates wonder about support, but for me from a big picture perspective, you have to trust the AF. They are very invested in the success of every member. They are not going to ignore what just occurred.

    Although momxthree may have not explained it enough why they do what they do, she has placed the 1000% trust the AFA to feel safe as a parent that if this happens, the AFA, just like your public HS will be there for them emotionally.

    That is what parents need to understand, be it kissing them goodbye at the AFA, traditional college in AFROTC or OCS, their family is now the AF. They want them to succeed just as much as the parent.

    It is hard to let the AF take that role, but it is something you must do as a parent if they are going to succeed.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2013
  15. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    The USAFA really needs to address this issue instead of hiding it.

    And do it please before another cadet thinks it's the way to solve his/her problems.

    The military in general has a huge problem with members taking their own lives.

    It's time to address it. It's not going away unless something proactively is done to help them before it's too late.

    There should be no shame or stigma for them seeking help, nor should there be any administrative or medical punishment (eg disenrollment for psychiatric issues) for those who need counseling.
     
  16. AVT

    AVT USAFA 2015

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    Here is what happens when a fatality occurs from a Cadet's point of view:

    -Personal friends of the deceased learn about the death, and then rumors spread throughout the Cadet Wing as to the identity and cause of death of the deceased.
    -The next duty day, our Commandant officially addresses the entire Cadet Wing as to the identity of the deceased. He discourages rumors and usually states that an investigation is being conducted for the cause of death.
    -Our various support networks are open for extra hours to help cadets with grief.
    -A TAPS vigil occurs on the T-Zo in honor of the fallen cadet.
    -A memorial/funeral service occurs at the Cadet Chapel.

    Throughout these series of events, the general cadet population speculates about the cause of death. Rumors run rampant, and there are no official followup statements coming from our leadership.
    Cadets only learn the true cause of death from word of mouth, spread from cadets close to the deceased. Additionally, the media may or may not have a followup article.
    Absolutely, nothing official comes from our leadership after the funeral, and the deceased cadet is no longer discussed.
     
  17. aglages

    aglages Parent

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    Sorry - I was unaware that she was banned from this site or of her history. I thought her stats on the suicide rates might be of interest.
    Why do you think she is incorrect? Are you getting feedback from current cadets at USAFA? What is the current suicide rate at the USAFA vs civilian colleges or other SAs? If not the "atmosphere" then what is the cause?
    No - neither I nor any other parent have to trust the AF. Perhaps our children should....after all they are in the military. IMHO - my job as a parent, taxpayer and veteran is to question what is going on at USAFA, USNA and every other federal program...and not to just blindly trust. Particularly when the problem seems to be getting worse.
    I don't think they are going to ignore what happened, anymore than they ignored the last thing that happened and the attempted suicides in between. The question for me is whether this time they are going to identify WHAT the problem is and whether they will/can correct it.
    I'm not sure the above two statements are completely correct. I have heard from a number of current cadets and parents that USAFA seems so focused on reducing the wing strength that they have very little interest in who succeeds...or fails. The current attitude seems to be we have too many cadets and many more applying than we have slots for. God help you if you mess up because there will not be any second chances.

    I guess an argument could be made that the above "attitude" is appropriate for any SA. Perhaps it is. That said, you can't convince me that the AF wants my son to succeed as much as I do and that I should just trust them. JMPO
     
  18. aglages

    aglages Parent

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    I guess if there is never an official statement released to the public about the cause of death then discussing these "incidents" can never be done in some forums/sites.
     
  19. stella

    stella Member

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    In Agreement

    Based on all of the posts on this thread, I would agree with the aforementioned one the most. Our dd, interested in USAFA, asked a former high school classmate who is a cadet (after seeing this thread). She told her some information and then said that it is very odd, but it is like no one talks about 'the incident'...now the possible cause or future prevention. She found that sad, coming from a high school culture where, as a family, they did talk about tragedy and help one another through it as students, staff and parents...as a school family.
    S
     
  20. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    A. She had no problem posting the names of the dead, why not say the names of the cadets, or at the very least a C2C speaking on anonymity said... she didn't.
    ~~~ Maybe the grumblings she heard was overhearing as a ski instructor at Winter Park?

    B. Civilian colleges these days rarely guarantee on campus housing for all 4 yrs. If a student takes their life living off campus, or is a commuter student that skews the number.

    C. If we are going to live in fear...let's address the murder rate at any SA compared to traditional colleges.
    ~~~ VT shooting 6 yrs ago this April 16th, where 32 were taken from this world, and 17 were wounded.
    ~~~ Yeardly Love a UVA student killed off campus by another UVA student
    ~~~ Eve Carson at UNCCH was murdered off campus.
    ~~~ UMDCP this week where a student living off campus with 2 other students killed 1, wounded another and took his own life.

    The world is big and bad. However, to go down this rabbit whole IMPO is wrong.

    That''s the thing...it is their life now, not ours. As a parent we need to trust them.

    Sure, as a taxpayer you have a right to question. Not sure how as a veteran you have a right, seeing as veteran's served, are not serving or will serve in the future.

    Yet, that is not how we got here, we got here because a poster asked as a parent. Not a taxpayer, nor a vet.

    Do we need to address it? Yes, but let's also be honest, in this current DoD budget environment, where will you take the money from to study the issue?

    The AF, nor the AFA has a 1.83 BN, yes BILLION endowment like PSU. They are so short on funds that if sequestration occurs 203,000 flight hours will be cut for ADAF training. There is no BILLION dollar endowment to do a study.

    I am not being heartless, but please tell me where they will find the money to address this issue from a study perspective, which let's be honest that is the only way any answer will be found....hundreds or thousands of manpower hrs for surveys, studying the results, and changing the system.

    I respect and admire you a lot, but for me this is where you and I part. 20 yrs as an AF spouse, and now an O1 ADAF Mom, I still believe that, BUT, I also realize that I am emotionally involved, and if the short end of the stick happens I would probably jump to think poorly of them in that respect. However, with time, that short end was because this was not their area to succeed, and they cared enough to say it.

    Their position was never to risk their lives if it meant they were not ready. Our position as a parent is to be that cheerleader, telling them they can do it. We risk their lives by ignoring the experts.

    So, yes, if DS at UPT doesn't wing, I will still believe that the AF cared about our DS more than just a student at UPT, and probably will save their life. They want him to succeed in life, and are honest enough to say this isn't it.

    It is all about how you see "succeeding" when it comes to your child.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2013

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