Stand and Fight …. No one gets out of this World alive

Reports are that a second Russian general killed in Ukraine.

Just remember that truth is the first casualty in war. It may or may not be true, similar to the claim that the Ukrainians just destroyed 30 Russian helicopters on the ground or that Russians are being killed at a rate of 1,000 soldiers per day.

Now, if it is true it would be a major blow to the Russians and a huge boost to Ukrainian morale. The general in question is Valery Gerasimov, the #2 guy in the Russian military establishment behind Sergei Shoygu, a career engineer and bureaucrat. Gerasimov was the leader of Russian forces and Ukrainian separatists involved in the 2014 battle of Ilovaisk, during the conflict over the breakaway area of Donetsk. Ukrainians will remember when their forces were surrounded and trapped, they were offered a corridor to safely retreat. Once the retreat began, they were slaughtered.
 
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One you start naming american names this becomes a politically discussion. So I won’t.

But Putin is not the only one that will have blood and shame as his legacy after this is over.

A significant number of Americans have been Putin supporters over the last few years, many worked for him or his people, many worked against the interests of Ukraine, And some made full on fortunes dealing with and helping the Russian criminal class of Putin supporters.

One prominent name bought an estate for 41 million and four years later flipped it to a Russian oligarch for nearly 100 million.

There are several articles out there including John hardwoods naming names but since they name names I won’t post it here.

After this is over will we remember or forgive and forget?

Time will tell.
 
One you start naming american names this becomes a politically discussion. So I won’t.

But Putin is not the only one that will have blood and shame as his legacy after this is over.

A significant number of Americans have been Putin supporters over the last few years, many worked for him or his people, many worked against the interests of Ukraine, And some made full on fortunes dealing with and helping the Russian criminal class of Putin supporters.

One prominent name bought an estate for 41 million and four years later flipped it to a Russian oligarch for nearly 100 million.

There are several articles out there including John hardwoods naming names but since they name names I won’t post it here.

After this is over will we remember or forgive and forget?
From my gut to your keyboard.

However, your narrative oversimplifies 30 years of history which is replete with missteps and miscalculations. The last thing we need right now is recriminations, finger pointing and second-guessing. They are of no benefit to anyone.

Time will tell.
Indeed! So let's time tell the story. There isn't enough whitewash to hide the documented statements of the folks who are stuck in your craw.
 
Again, no point in debating how we got here. But we seem to all agree that Putin needs to go. I would be willing to pay $10 a gallon for gas for a short while If it would get rid of Putin. Without Putin, everyone, including Russia, will be better off economically. And maybe we won’t have to spend so much of our defense budget to specifically deal with Russia.

So, along with our European allies, we need to impose total economic strangulation of the Russian economy. Putin will “whither on the vine.”
 
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So, along with our European allies, we need to impose total economic strangulation of the Russian economy.
Patience Grasshopper

From Saturday March 5 WSJ

Two weeks ago, Russia’s companies could sell their goods around the globe and take in investments from overseas stock-index funds. Its citizens could buy MacBooks and Toyotas at home, and freely spend their rubles abroad.

Now they are in a financial bind. Soon after Russia invaded Ukraine, another war began to isolate its economy and pressure President Vladimir Putin. The first move was made by Western governments to sanction the country’s banking system. But over the course of the past week, the financial system took over and severed practically every artery of money between Russia and the rest of the world, in some cases going further than what was required by the sanctions.

Visa Inc. V -0.74% and Mastercard Inc. stopped processing foreign purchases for millions of Russian citizens. Apple Inc. and Google shut off their smartphone-enabled payments, stranding cashless travelers at Moscow metro stations. International firms stepped back from providing the credit and insurance that underpin trade shipments.
This unplugging of the world’s 11th-largest economy opens a new chapter in the history of economic conflict. In a world that relies on the financial system’s plumbing—clearing banks, settlement systems, messaging protocols and cross-border letters of credit—a few concerted moves can flatten a major economy.
Russia now faces a repeat of one of the most painful episodes in its post-Soviet history—the financial crisis of 1998, when its economy collapsed overnight. In the decades that followed, Russia earned its way back into the good graces of financiers in New York, London and Tokyo. It is all being undone at warp speed and will not be easily put back together.
The ruble has lost more than one-quarter of its value and is now virtually useless outside of Russia, with Western firms refusing to exchange it or process overseas transactions. Moscow’s stock exchange was closed for a fifth straight day on Friday. The Russian Central Bank more than doubled interest rates to attract foreign investment and halt the ruble’s free fall. Two firms that are crucial to clearing securities trades, Euroclear and DTCC, said they would stop processing certain Russian transactions.
With their interest payments stuck inside the country—following the sanctions, Mr. Putin also ordered intermediaries in Russia not to pay—some Russian companies and government entities could default on their bond payments to international creditors. That could make the country toxic for investing for years. Shares of Russian companies, even those without obvious ties to the Kremlin, were booted from stock-index funds, which will further isolate them from pools of Western capital.
Analysts expect Russia’s economy to contract as much as 20% this quarter, roughly the same hit the British economy took in the spring of 2020 during the pandemic lockdowns.

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Inside Moscow’s Kievskaya metro station. After Apple and Google shut off their smartphone-enabled payments, travelers had to find other ways to pay.​

PHOTO: THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
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Aleksandr Iurev of Pocketfied is looking for ways to pay his employees in Russia.​

PHOTO: DESIREE RIOS FOR THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
Aleksandr Iurev left Moscow eight years ago as an aspiring entrepreneur. Russia’s escalating hostility in the region made it “no place for business people,” he said from his home in New Jersey. The 36-year-old runs a mobile-app startup and this week, he can’t make payroll for the six developers who work for him in Russia because they hold personal accounts at sanctioned banks.
“It is completely shut off,” he said. He’s looking into cryptocurrency to keep his staff from bolting.
His company, Pocketfied, has other problems: Members of his marketing team in Ukraine took the week off to help build street barricades in Dnipro, in the country’s east.
The one lifeline that still connects Russia’s economy to Western markets is its supplies of energy, which European countries rely on and have been loath to cut off, especially during the winter. U.S. lawmakers are pressuring the White House to expand sanctions to include energy payments, which would sap Russia of its largest source of income, at $240 billion last year.
Even if governments don’t act, the market is speaking: Russian oil producers have had trouble finding buyers for shipments since the invasion began.
“The golden age that we had from 1945 to last week is now over,” said Gary Greenberg, head of global emerging markets at Federated Hermes, which manages $669 billion in assets. “As investors, we need to look at things differently now.”
As it dug out from the 1998 crash, Russia plugged itself into the global economy. It joined Brazil, China and India—dubbed the BRIC economies by Western investors—as the next frontier of finance.

American, British and Swiss banks courted the flood of money its oil industry produced. Russia’s biggest banks listed shares in London. One of them moved into an office across the street from the Bank of England. The Moscow exchange itself went public in 2013 with backing from U.S. and European investors.
The first signs of decoupling came in 2014, when Mr. Putin’s territorial ambitions began to stir. Western governments put limited sanctions on Russia after it annexed Crimea from Ukraine.
Russia began trying to sanction-proof its economy. It built its own domestic payments network—called Mir, Russian for “peace”—to function alongside and, if needed, replace those run by Western firms. It shifted its overseas holdings away from the U.S. and its European allies and toward China, which has been relatively more accommodating of Mr. Putin’s efforts to expand his influence and territory. It doubled its gold reserves.
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VTB, one of Russia’s largest banks, drew U.S. sanctions.​

PHOTO: THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
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People walked along Arbat Street in Moscow​

Those efforts to wall itself off may prove insufficient. At least 40% of Russia’s $630 billion in foreign reserves are in countries that have joined in the latest sanctions. The rest, mostly in China, it is free to spend—but only in China. Moving those reserves out of the country would require first converting them into a Western currency like dollars or euros, which no global bank will do.


Russia, like many energy-rich countries, exports oil and gas and imports much else—automotive parts, medicines, broadcast equipment, wallpaper, fresh vegetables.
The financial journey that enables their geographical one depends on a complex web of loans, insurance policies and payments. Western banks are stepping back from trade financing, executives said, wary of the risk that their counterparty uses a sanctioned Russian bank, or has ties to a sanctioned oligarch. Maersk, the Danish shipping giant, suspended deliveries to Russia, citing tougher terms now being demanded by financiers.
Czarnikow Group, a London-based trade-financing firm, was preparing this week to send a shipload of a specialty plastic used in soda bottles and clamshell packaging, with scheduled stops in Russia and Ukraine. On Monday, the firm got notice from its insurance provider that its policy would no longer cover the ship.
“It was obvious we weren’t going to be able to put a vessel in,” said Robin Cave, Czarnikow’s chief executive, who began looking for alternative ports and is talking to his client about where to send the cargo.



Swift Sanctions: How Cutting Off Banks Pressures Russia


A powerful coalition of democracies announced it would cut off some Russian banks from the global payment system Swift. Here’s how Swift works, and how the move could ramp up pressure on Russian President Putin. Photo: Anton Vaganov/Reuters
The steps taken by financial firms could close off Russia from global markets for years. Some of the largest index compilers, which maintain lists of stocks that are tracked by trillions of dollars of investments, said they would exclude Russian stocks.
The move was in part a practical decision. With the Moscow stock exchange still closed, it is impossible to assign prices to those shares. But it will ultimately damp the flow of foreign capital into Russia’s economy, said Anusha Chari, a professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
An increasing share of investment dollars simply tracks such collections of securities. When Russian companies fall out of the index, that money disappears, which makes it harder for those companies to raise cash in the future.
“It puts the brakes on real investment,” Ms. Chari said.

Index compilers have dropped countries from key indexes before, during periods of economic instability in places like Pakistan and Argentina. But in those cases, the decisions came after months of deliberations, said Dimitris Melas, a senior executive at MSCI Inc., which took the step Thursday.
“The speed with which events are unfolding, and the severity, made us act a lot faster,” he said.
Whether investors will be able to sell the Russian assets they hold is less clear. Norway’s largest pension fund, KLP Group, planned to unload its Russian stocks this week. With the Moscow exchange still closed, it has resorted to selling shares of companies with a dual listing in London, said Kiran Aziz, an executive at the $70 billion fund.
“The market is essentially dead” for Russian assets, said Edward Al-Hussainy, an analyst at Columbia Threadneedle Investments. For the first time he can remember, investors are telling the firm to sell—no matter the price.
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A closed currency exchange office in Moscow on Friday.​

 
An RAF veteran is giving a talk to a class of school children, and was trying to explain what a typical mission would be like.

"So there I was, escorting the bombers to their target, when out of the blue we were attacked by a bunch of Fokkers. There were about 20 of these Fokkers. One took out my buddy, but I managed to shoot the Fokker down. Then one was on my tail and I coukdn't shake the Fokker, but my pal took care of him. Then I took out two more of the Fokkers..."

The teacher interupts "Children I should explain, the Fokker was a type of figher airplane used by the German Air Force to stop the RAF bombers and their escorts."

"Yes, but these Fokkers were Messerschmitts!"


stolen from reddit
This is my lol for the day, which is definitely a thing :bounce1:
 
Ukrainians have guts and can fight. Russia is not impressing anyone with the strength of their military. The war crimes are piling up. Putin is in trouble!
 
Went home for lunch. Mrs. cb7893 spoke today with her SIL. Her hometown of less than 6000, South of Krakow, is hosting in private homes several dozen refugee families who were randomly picked up at the border. The community center has become something of donation warehouse and ALL of the kids are going to school.
 
Just remember that truth is the first casualty in war. It may or may not be true, similar to the claim that the Ukrainians just destroyed 30 Russian helicopters on the ground or that Russians are being killed at a rate of 1,000 soldiers per day.

Now, if it is true it would be a major blow to the Russians and a huge boost to Ukrainian morale. The general in question is Valery Gerasimov, the #2 guy in the Russian military establishment behind Sergei Shoygu, a career engineer and bureaucrat. Gerasimov was the leader of Russian forces and Ukrainian separatists involved in the 2014 battle of Ilovaisk, during the conflict over the breakaway area of Donetsk. Ukrainians will remember when their forces were surrounded and trapped, they were offered a corridor to safely retreat. Once the retreat began, they were slaughtered.

My bad. Looks like it may have been General Vitaly Gerasimov, not General Valery Gerasimov.
 
Is anyone else nervous about Poland just announcing they will send planes to Ukraine, via a US base? How does that even work? Ukranian pilots take a bus to our US base in Europe, they get in planes that are known to the world to be Poland's (a NATO country) and they then fly over the border into Ukraine to begin shooting at Russian targets? How does Russia not see that as NATO being directly involved?

How would Russian pilots/soldiers not assume the planes are Polish planes and shoot them down starting WW3?

I mean these people need help, I get it. It's horrific. But are smart people taking the time to look at this from multiple fronts and not accidentally escalate this?

And, I too am glad it wasn't Vitaly, I might have liked that guy ;)
 
My understanding from earlier articles was that this was potentially one complicated issue.

We want the poles to give MIG jets to the Ukraine AF. We are then going to give Poland US jets.

Now it kind of looks like the poles are giving the mig jets to the US and they expect the MIGs will get to the Ukraine AF now. How those jets get there will most likely not be announced before hand

This may not be totally accurate :)

And things may have changed while I was typing.

And I think if this happens nothing about it is accidental. including the fighting that may likely come after. We are facing down Russia and it may end up being a shooting war. (with nato directly involved)
 
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@smallteambacsi and @FutureAcademydad? I understand both of your points. I guess the part that is being reported is that the US was caught off guard by this. That doesn't speak well in terms of how we are staying in active communications with a Nato ally. SMH.
 
“Nucular combat toe to toe with the Ruskies.” Pretty scary, but it sucks being blackmailed. I think Putin is bluffing.
 

There is an ongoing invasion and lots of countries and lots of moving parts. I do not except everything will always go smooth.

Above is a statement from the polish foreign minister. That statement does not suggest there was no communication. My “guess” is that this was discussed but the announcement may have caught some or many off guard.

I am not shocked this sort of glitch thing happens

No matter how the jets get there it will be seen by Putin as a deliberate act by NATO
 
No matter how the jets get there it will be seen by Putin as a deliberate act by NATO

Well it should be because it pretty much is. It's like the Javelins and Stingers: how many places could those have come from? It's like the recent Polish shopping spree at Diamond Joe's Tank Emporium. It's like a lot of trucks to Murmansk 75 years ago. Regardless of the state of treaties, if you have friends they'll get things done, and if you don't have friends it can get pretty difficult.
 
We could fly drones into Ukraine from bases in Poland. This would be taken by Putin as a provacative act. But would he really retaliate with nukes? Not worth the risk. But tempting.

Maybe we can help Ukraine with psyops aimed at the Russian conscripts.

The economic sanctions are going to take longer to take effect than Ukraine can hold out. If Ukraine can maintain an insurgency after all the big cities fall maybe it will eventually be so costly that the Russian people will ultimately drive Putin out of power. Let’s pray.
 
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