Start enlistment process, or wait for USNA?

College Programmer is a student who does not win a NROTC scholarship, yet enrolls in the NROTC Program at their university. The majority of students in ROTC are usually not on scholarship. For Navy or Marine Option (MO) scholarships, they either must earn a scholarship while in school or gain advanced standing designation to continue on with a commission by the end of their sophomore year. And as mentioned, recruiters have a specific mission. They do a great job of selling things, but don't sign anything until you verify what they are saying.

PLC and OCC are Marine Commission Programs for those who want to be Marine Officers after they graduate college. https://www.marines.com/becoming-a-...rams/four-year-colleges/platoon-leaders-class

The above link gives a decent oversight to the programs. I focused on USMC programs because you mentioned her enlisting in the USMC. The Navy side has different programs. The link above covers at a high level all the programs I mentioned.
 
maskry said:
EOD/SEAL Mom,
I was just wondering how things turned out for your daughter. My 17 year old DD just announced yesterday that she intends to enlist in the Marines in the Early Entry Program. Not without my signature, I responded, and that's not going to happen. I believe she should wait and play out the application process before she enlists in the Marines. DD claims that enlisting in the EEP will help her chances of getting into USNA or getting an NROTC scholarship because it will show her committment to service. I think enlisting will prevent her from having the option of reapplying to the USNA in the future should she decide to and I'm not at all convinced it is as easy to get out of the EEP as DD says it is. I read all the posts on the forum and the unanimous opinion is to wait, and not rush into signing up for EEP. How did you handle this with your DD?

By the way, I think there is a good chance our daughters know each other through Sea Cadets. Was your daughter a little chilly at a training recently?
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This thread changed her whole future. She'd also originally wanted to enlist if not offered an appointment to USNA, and had been talking to the recruiter who was urging her to sign now (then, as this was last fall), to be able to start working out and training with them. She really did not want to go to State U if she needed to reapply.

How we handled it was to ask her questions to get her to prioritize her goals. One VERY important thing we learned along the way was that it is not possible to become an officer without a college degree. So the first question was "Do you want to be an officer or do you just want to serve, wherever they put you?" Her first priority was to become an officer.

The next question was "Do you want USNA only or do you want become an officer through any source?" Her first priority was to become an officer, and while she loves USNA it was more important to her to become an officer through any source. That pretty much took the prep schools off the table for her (unless of course it was offered to her through USNA).

We had never heard of the senior military colleges before I started this thread and others suggested those. Much more her wheelhouse to be in a full time military environment. She decided after researching all six SMC's that she liked both the Citadel and Virginia Military Institute, and applied to both last November, and was accepted into both within a month. We visited both schools for her to do an overnight visit. She did not care much for Citadel but fell in love with VMI.....and in many ways we all liked VMI even more than USNA.

She then scrambled to apply for the NROTC scholarship, but only finished in time for the final board and was not selected.

She was turned down by USNA a couple weeks ago and will be attending VMI this fall. She plans to join the Marine Corps there and will reapply for the scholarship in the fall, choosing the Marine option this time. The prof of Naval Science at VMI thinks she has a great shot at earning one. She's been emailing with him since we got back.

She has not yet decided whether she will reapply to USNA. She is the type of young lady that always chooses the hardest path to follow, knowing that the harder path usually has the greatest rewards; that's what led her to USNA in the first place. Choosing whether to reapply or to grow where she's planted is something only she can decide.

And haha - yes she was chilly on that last training - frostbite on her toes! Your daughter is probably just like mine since all the girls there are very similar. Have her text mine for feedback about enlisting.

Once you've made a few more posts send me a message and I'll give you my email address. Is your daughter a junior or senior this year?
 
EOD/SEAL Mom,
Your original thread just changed my DD's future as well, and for that, I thank you! It turns out our daughters do indeed know each other, and my DD has certainly bumped up her intensity since meeting other like minded, strong young women. I am working with DD to formulate a strong plan B, which includes applying for the NROTC scholarship when the process opens on 4/1/16. She is a junior this year. I was aware of the military colleges from speaking with other parents at the USNA CVW last fall, but I nixed nayed them because I didn't feel the academics were as strong as the schools in the scholarship program. Fee free to chime in with any disagreements you may have on that point. DD expressed interest in VMI, but the thought of having my DD called a 'rat' was more than I could bare to tolerate and Norwich is in the middle of nowhere and didn't get very good reviews from students online. My DD is interested in Mechanical Engineering, so I had DD focus on NROTC schools that had a good engineering program AND also offered a housing scholarship, which I learned about through this forum. The 5 schools that DD is focusing on are the University of San Diego, Illinois Tech, Rensselaer, Drexel, and Notre Dame. Notre Dame doesn't offer the housing scholarship, but DD might be eligible for other financial aid that would cover the cost of housing and having her close by is worth the housing cost if she doesn't get any additional scholarships. When DD brought up the whole Marine enlistment thing last night, it was the first I had heard of her interest in the Marines and I didn't take the news well. After the shock settled, we reviewed the list and Drexel doesn't have a Marine option, so DD might substitute Texas A&M or Villanova for Drexel. Neither school offers the housing scholarship, but I'll cross that bridge/argument at a later date. Unfortunately, DD will not be able to visit all the schools on the list prior to submitting the NROTC scholarship application due to her sports schedule, NASS, and summer Cadet training. USD is beautiful and close to the Marine base, so that is her top choice with ND a very, very close second.


Congratulations to your DD for getting into VMI.

I will contact you directly with all the million and one questions I have as I work through the process with my DD, if that is acceptable to you! To all the other readers of this thread, I am interested in your thoughts and opinions, as well. This forum has been an invaluable resource in helping guide my DD on the path that is right for her.
 
Absolutely feel free to contact me! The girls on that training are very like-minded....I highly recommend going to check out VMI - it literally blew us away!
 
Maskry
Beware of online comments, people who are content rarely rant online.
If you can you should visit the various SMCs, they are all quite different.
You cannot really get a true sense from information online.
What major is your daughter interested in?
 
maskry: I second the counsel given by NavyHoops and AJC. I would not recommend EEP if your DD's goal is to become a Marine Officer. There are many examples on this forum where recruiters sell this idea of "commitment" and EEP but it doesn't hold water. These are good people but they have a mission of bringing in enlisted Marines not officers. NavyHoops provided the range of USMC commissioning programs - would recommend you walk through them with your DD.

Regarding schools with Engineering programs and NROTC units: I gathered from your post that your are in the Midwest/ Chicago area. You may want to consider University of Illinois, Purdue and Marquette. The USD unit fills quickly because of the Navy presence there and Notre Dame is not only highly competitive, they also like to spread the student body across the US so they only take so many from the immediate area which makes competition for those students even more difficult. Marquette is a school that is often a "safety" school for upper echelon students but this creates a scenario where they often have spots in the NROTC unit available when others schools have filled up. Marquette just pumped a lot of money into their Engineering program and built brand new facilities two years ago.

Good luck to your DD.
 
USMCGrunt,
Thank you for the suggestions. Yes indeed, I am in the Midwest, and that is exactly the problem. DD doesn't want to stay in the Midwest. Others have mentioned Marquette, so I might insist DD at least visit the campus. DD won't even look at the larger schools such as U of I or Perdue, although I used that argument against her when she brought up TAMU. DD's academics and ACT scores are very strong, which certainly helps when applying to highly competitve schools. DD liked the feel and size of ND, which is why I suggested Villanova or USD. Illinois Tech is her safety school, and she would be the third generation to go there.

This whole process is overwhelming to me, so I really appreciate the input of others!

AJC, you are correct to be wary of online ranting, but where else to start researching? I have read US News and World Reports, checked out books from the library, and I spend A LOT of time reading past posts on this forum for valuable information. I really appreciate those who have walked the path sharing information with those of us new to the journey. My daughter is interested in Mechanical Engineering. She comes from a long line of engineers, so it is in her DNA!
 
I think the engineering departments at Norwich, VMI , and Citadel are all excellent.
The relative small size of each is an advantage. As well all three do not use teaching assistants. most professors have Ph.D.s. My son and I toured these schools and spoke at length with the Department heads at each.
PM me for more details. My opinions are my own and I do not want to have to defend them on an open forum where alumni are quick to take offense.
 
I served with a ton of Marines from the Marquette program. Great program. Also, if I recall correctly, they offer room and board if on NROTC scholarship. Also check out VT. Great engineering and Corps of Cadets.
 
AJC, how do I PM you? Naturally, I do not wish to offend any alumni, and it's good to talk to a variety of people to get their opinions. Excellent point about the use of teaching assistants.

Navy Hoops, you are correct about Marquette offering the housing scholarship.

VT is an excellent school, without a doubt, but it does not offer a housing scholarship. Since most schools charge $12-15,000 for room and board per year, and a lot of engineering programs are now 5 years instead of 4, I am mindful of the $60,000-$75,000 cost savings choosing a school that offers a housing scholarship brings to the table. I'm not willing to cash in my retirement account or allow my DD to get buried in student loan debt if there are alternatives available.

Which leads me to the question, for all those activating plan "B", what criteria did you use to select your alternatives?
 
maskry said:
AJC, how do I PM you?
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After your 10th post on the forum, you are able to initiate private conversations or "PM". (They used to be called private messages which is why we use PM.)
 
If you look in the ROTC thread there is a sticky (top of the thread) that addresses schools that cover Room & Board, might be helpful.
 
Having experienced a similar situation to the original post, I'd like to share my story to those parents whose children are considering enlisting in the armed forces while waiting on a SA application. I started my USNA application like many others with a preliminary to NASS. NASS solidified my decision to want to attend the Naval Academy, and as I walked the brick of Stribling at the end of the week, I realized that I would not want to go to any other college in the world except USNA. I went home and got to work right away on the rest of the application. It took a little longer than I wanted it too, having finished around mid December. I started to doubt the strength of my application at this point. With USNA's acceptance rate being around 8%, I accepted the fact that I might not be in Annapolis the following Fall semester. Just like any other USNA hopeful, I had my plan B and C in the works.

- Plan B: Attend the state University near my hometown. Apply to USNA the following year.
- Plan C: Enlist into the military and apply to USNA through the active duty/ Prior service route.

Being a part of my NJROTC unit at my High school, I knew many seniors ( some of which are close friends) that were enlisting into the Marine Corps. The Marine recruiter came often to my school and all of us knew him well. I had even gone to his office a couple of times during high school to get some information and some marine merchandise here and there (keychains/shirts). Having turned 18 during that time I decided to follow through with my plan C just to keep my options open. I had signed some papers, went to MEPS (Full physical, eye exam, blood test, hearing test, alcohol/ drug test, personal doctor interview, determined "who would receive what" if I kicked the bucket in the military) waited those long hours to sign my official contract to the Marines, and swore in. My parents were completely against me doing this and we had gotten into many arguments throughout this process. I explained to them what the recruiter had explained to me.

" This is just a back up plan. If I get accepted to the Naval Academy, They take me off the contract and I can go with no problem. The only contract that matters is the one I sign the day I would ship to basic".

Around January of 2016, I was able to meet with my admissions counselor and I explained to her my back up plans if USNA did not accept me. She told me that my enlistment may cause a problem in my application since I am contracted to the Marines. I told her that my recruiter was aware that I am applying to USNA and that he will take me off if I am accepted. She then said to make sure I go with my parents to the recruiters if I receive my acceptance to USNA. As the wait for USNA became longer I started to reflect upon my decisions. Had i made the right choice signing with the Marines? Will they really come looking for me if I don't want to go to basic? These questions bothered me sometimes at night, but I realized that my plan B could save me from going straight into the military. I had received scholarships from the state university I applied to, which could waiver my contact since it would make it seem like I wanted to go to college first. I also applied to the NROTC scholarship to show that my interest was still in the military. This would allow me to cancel my contract and attend the university. Later that month I received a very important phone call. My Congressional representative called me to congratulate me on my offer of appointment to USNA class of 2020. When I received my small blue binder with the document of acceptance, I copied it, gave it to my recruiter and was dis-enrolled from the Delayed Entry Program (DEP).


That is my USNA application story and here is my advice to those of you that have the same thoughts I did, or who have children who are like me. When i think back to my decisions, only one word comes to mind, which is "WAIT". I wish I would have waited and really thought about what I wanted. I realized that if I didn't get accepted to USNA that I should go to my state university with all the scholarships and take college courses that would prepare me better for USNA, or take courses so that I could validate as many courses as I possibly could. This one year of preparation would have also allowed me to make extra money that I could take with me so that I could decrease the ACE loan I would receive from USNA (since a lot of your monthly pay goes back into paying this loan throughout your first year). These facts made going to a state university much more appealing than enlisting right after high school. Also once you enlist, and finish basic training, you are a part of the armed forces. This means that the job you signed up for is more important than any other desire you have. You must finish your job training first, and then after you may start your applications to the service academies. This may take up to 2 or 3 yrs before you actually have enough time to do the application and get your chain of command's approval. And if you realize that the college life is not for you, you can still enlist after. This post is all about keeping your options open, and if you were to ask me for my opinion (coming from a student who actually did the enlistment contract and went through the process) I would say wait for the academy's decision, and if denied, go to college for one year and re-apply the following year. If you've made it this far in the application I'm sure you are an outstanding student and state colleges are throwing money at you to go their school. Take the free money for a year and don't give up on USNA.
 
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