Tough Day for Service Academy Football

Discussion in 'Academy/Military News' started by Luigi59, Oct 23, 2011.

  1. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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  2. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Fear not, Army fans. We had drinks with Trent Steelman's fan club last night. His sister assured me he'll be back for Army-Navy!
     
  3. aglages

    aglages Parent

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    Air Force losing by only 11 on the road to #5 Boise State is not too bad. It was a respectable performance and much better than many people expected.

    The important goal is the Commander-in-Chief's Trophy.
     
  4. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    But will he be back in 2 weeks for air force? I hope he is. We've been losing lately because so many of our defense are freshmen because of injuries. I want the cic, and I believe we'll do it, but I don't want anyone saying we only won because army's qb wasn't there.
     
  5. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    I didn't ask about 2 weeks, because to the tried and Hearts in Gray, Air Force is a nice little side note. The game that matters is Navy.
     
  6. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    I can understand that. Especially if you've only won the CIC trophy 6 times in 39 years; and the last time was 15 years ago. Doh!!! Sorry; couldn't help myself.
     
  7. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    I haven't won the CIC trophy at all. Army has. I don't understand what merits all the use of "we" and "you" and "us" in all these football threads.

    I know it breaks Air Force's heart to not be included in the big game, but the singular autumn goal of every heart in gray is to see the Army team beat Navy. Beating Air Force is a stocking stuffer. Beating Navy is the loot under the Christmas tree. :biggrin:
     
  8. aglages

    aglages Parent

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    Perhaps CC was just suggesting that considering Army's overall record with the CIC Trophy, that they might want to raise the bar a little higher than just beating Navy. But I also understand your point.....Army may need to crawl before "they" can run and "they" should enjoy any victory...even small ones. :biggrin:
     
  9. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    OUCH!!! LOL!!!

    And Scout; I'm not sure about your objection to the word "WE" and "US". I don't know about the Army; but in the air force, "WE" are family. And whether you're active duty or retired; enlisted or officer; academy grad, ROTC, OTS, or Tech School; "WE" support each other. And before every game, "WE" toast to those serving; have served; and especially to those no longer with us. Now maybe when you retired, you left the military behind you. I didn't. And if you think that there's a separation between those who attended the academy and played football, and those who didn't, then that's cool. "We" just don't happen to see it that way. And that's even one reason "Our" AD at the academy and superintendent are considering moving football to the Big-East for the money. Even though football drives the train, the men and women in our other sports upon graduation will be serving in the same military, with the same responsibilities. And therefor, they deserve the same opportunities at the academy. And if we can make more money in the Big-East to give more to woman's soccer, golf, tennis, swimming, basketball, etc.... Then more power to "Us".

    And as for breaking our heart that we're not included in the "Big Game"..... I really don't know how to respond. All three of the academies at D1 level play each other. Just because army and navy play the last game together, doesn't make that the "Big Game". Unless of course you're 3-8 and you're hoping to win the last game of the season for moral purposes. I guess we could make the "last 3 games of the season" be between army - navy - air force; but that seems pretty silly. Although, it would make for an interesting 3 weeks towards the CIC trophy; instead of spread out over a 2 month period. But no; "we're" not "Heart Broken" for not being included in the "Big Game". (Whatever that's suppose to mean).
     
  10. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    I've been to the past few Army Navy games....


    the spirit videos on the big screen were interesting.... the product on the field was not.


    I'll stick to my Coast Guard v. Merchant Marine games....
     
  11. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    When I retired?! Wow. Somehow my career has fast-forwarded to retirement. Neat. Guess I don't have to go to work tomorrow.

    And no, it's not the Big Game because it's the last one of the season. It's the Big Game because it's a rivalry that spans of 100 years between our oldest service academies. It is the defining game of the season for both teams. I can point you to whole books and documentaries about the rivalry. But yeah, it's probably just because it's at the end of the season. :rolleyes:
     
  12. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    I mentioned "Retired", because you seem to want to separate the football players who play for the academy, and everyone else in the military. I was implying that you believe active duty and retired are totally separate.

    Let me ask you this; being you have a complex. When soldiers, sailors, airmen, etc... accomplish a particular mission in Iraq, Afghan, Lybia, Kuwait, Panama, or wherever..... Do you associate yourself as "Part of THEM"? Part of "The Team". Or do you believe that "THOSE" who accomplished whatever mission did it on their own, and you aren't part of "Them"? If so; that is a very SAD MILITARY POSITION to be admitting to.

    Well; the academy and the sporting events are no different. Whether you're a player, a cadet, an alumni, a parent, an active/retired military member, etc... You are part of what supports that team, and therefor an integral part of their success and their failures.

    GOD!!! I just realized. Why am I wasting time trying to explain this to you. You either already know what I'm talking about; and you poorly chose your words when you questioned the "We" remark, and you simply can't admit that.... Or you really don't understand the true military/team/family concept. In which case, I can't explain it to you. I apologize. I never should have brought this up to you. I shouldn't have to explain it to you. My bad.
     
  13. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Thanks for my morning humor. I needed a good shrieking rant to get my day started.

    Go ahead and stow that worn out "one team" speech for your own good. I appreciate that you, as a parent, feel some pride and sense of ownership in Academy football. But if you honestly think there's no divide between Academy football and the active force, it's probably best that you aren't subject to a random urinalysis anymore.

    I'm willing to bet you didn't have many, if any, airmen who felt any deep connection to USAFA or sported much Falcons gear. TPG probably didn't have many Marines who cared about USNA football, either. Go ask a soldier at a COP in the Arghandab if he's excited about the next Army game and you'll get a colorful answer.

    It's nice for us, as Academy folks, to hope and even delude ourselves into believing that the active duty force thinks our respective cadets are the cat's pajamas and stake their personal pride on the trappings of SA football and other Academy activities. But they don't. They never have.

    That's just me living in the real world, though. And no, I don't say we. Whether its Trent Steelman scoring a touchdown or a Navy SEAL shooting Bin Laden, I give credit to the man in the arena. A minor point, I admit, but then again I have my own achievements to be proud of and thus I don't feel the need to bask in the glow of others' victories, even if they did win them for the greater "us." As much as I love the Army team, I don't believe that I own any part of their triumphs. That's delusional fandom at its best. I am merely privileged to enjoy them when they happen. Like every other fan.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2011
  14. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    For the record, all 5 academies currently have losing records, and all are in jeopardy of having losing records for the year.

    Air Force can even their record next week when they play the worst team in Division 1 football (New Mexico) and has a decent chance of getting above .500 for the year, but the other 4 are looking squarely in the face of a losing season.

    Air Force (3-4, 5 games remaining)
    Army (2-5, 5 games remaining)
    Navy (2-5, 5 games remaining)
    Merchant Marine (2-6, 2 games remaining)
    Coast Guard (1-6, 2 games remaining)
     
  15. sprog

    sprog Member

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    I can accept the usage of "we" when talking about a sports team that represents a school you attend or did attend. That's about it.

    I never understand it in the context of professional sports.
     
  16. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    Scout; Were you part of the "Army of One" generation. There's some that thought the "ONE" stood for "Officers, NCO's, and Enlisted"; but the army realized that the "Recruits" that the slogan was aimed at, believed it emphasized individualism and not teamwork.

    Now I won't speak for all active duty air force, but I've always had 2 favorite college sports teams that I followed. Maryland; (Like many, it was the college I attended, and you tend to support the school you went to). The other was air force. I followed and supported them since 1978 when I became part of the Air Force. Sorry, but when I came in, being part of the team is what was emphasized, and I still believe that.

    I've been involved with football and other sports for more than 40 years, and I can tell you that the "Fans" play a very large part in the success or failure of a team. You might not believe they do, but I've seen first hand what happens when a team has fan support; as well as what happens when the stands are almost empty.

    And I'm sorry you don't feel part of the "We" in the operational part of the military either. I've always felt part of "The WE". Even if it was the army, navy, marines, or coast guard in Grenada, panama, Libya, etc... I believe that everyone in the military contributes something to the larger picture. And that's one thing that really inspires me when a young person want to talk to be about enlisting or applying to the academies or an ROTC scholarship. When I hear them say that they want to be part of something "Bigger than themselves". Maybe I'm naive, but I still believe in the teamwork concept. And that teamwork starts at the CIC and goes down all the way to the E-1. And it goes to the American citizens who support their military. Without that support; financial and moral support; our military can't succeed.

    Either way; the academies have had a tough year in football this year. I think the 3 D1 schools still have the ability to have winning seasons. I think air force has the best chance, since their most difficult 5 games on the schedule were practically all back to back with TCU, Navy, Notre Dame, SDSU, and Boise State. They have 5 games left; and assuming we don't have any more injuries, we should be bowl eligible again. We need 7-5, but I think winning out and going 8-4 is very doable.
     
  17. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    Impossible.

    The loser of the Army-Navy is guaranteed at least 1 more loss (giving them 6) and the best they would be able to reach is .500 (not a winning record).
     
  18. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Wow.

    PM sent.
     
  19. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Exactly. Pretty simple concept, really. As a cadet, I said we. The Corps owns Army football. Not the grads. Or the parents. Or the straphangers.

    I'm happy to support them. But the Corps gets to say "we."
     
  20. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

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    Sometimes folks the old saying holds true that " when you are up to your *** in alligators it's tough to remember that your original objective was to drain the swamp". This thread would be one of those where suddenly there are a lot of alligators in the thread. The Original post was a pretty uncontentious observation that it was a hard week for SA football. I'm not sure how we have digressed into questioning each other's motives for supporting the football teams of your favorite (or even all of the) Academies, but let's not go any further down the road on that particular line. It's not called for and that needs to stop.
     

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