What is the Minimum Requirements for Nomination

Discussion in 'Nominations' started by magtalas192, May 28, 2009.

  1. magtalas192

    magtalas192 Member

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    I know in order to obtain a nomination from a Senator/Congressman you have to excel in your academics, but what is the average GPA a person selected for a nomination has to achieve? What is the percent of getting nominated by a senator?

    Thanks!!!
     
  2. etaylor2013

    etaylor2013 USMA Cadet

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    your "requirements" will be determined by the strength of the people against which your vying for your nomination. if it's a strong pool, then your resume/GPA will have to be that much more impressive.
     
  3. Drew_22

    Drew_22 USAFA Cadet

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    It all just depends. Because it is based on more then that. Like your EC's and sports. Also the interview that you have for your nomination. Some people have gotten a 3.3 and still got a nomination. It all just depends who you are up against.
     
  4. America's Finest

    America's Finest USMA Cadet

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    It all depends on your state and district. You just have to be one of the top in your area.
     
  5. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

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    It's my personal belief (having been involved in the process) that interviews play a major role in most MOC noms. When I served on an MOC nominations committee, we definitely had at least a "mental cutoff" in terms of the paperwork (grades, scores, ECAs, etc.). However, once you got into that group, whether you got a nom often depended quite a bit on your interview (most, not all, MOCs have interviews).

    Obviously, if you're from Wyoming, you have a lot less competition than if you're from CA. However, that doesn't mean that folks from Wyoming are less qualified -- there are simply fewer qualified people. AND, getting a nom doesn't mean you'll get an appointment if USNA doesn't consider you qualified.

    Bottom line is that you can only control your own situation. Worrying about what others around you are doing isn't productive.
     
  6. nick0094

    nick0094 Member

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    But doesn't the #1 nomination from each Member Of Congress automatically receive an appointment to a Service Academy?
     
  7. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator Moderator

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    Short answer: NO.

    MOC's are able to nominate their people in two ways:

    1. Primary/Alternate method. The MOC ranks his/her nominees as "PRIMARY and up to 9 Alternates in rank order." If using this member, the primary nominee WILL RECEIVE AN APPOINTMENT IF they meet ALL the requirements for admission (DODMERB, academic, athletic, etc...etc...). If they fail any area, the next nominee (alternate) in order will be offered the appointment.

    2. Competitive alternate method. The MOC nominates up to 10 people for each opening they have at the academy. The names are handed to the academy with a simple comment: "These are my 10 nominees...YOU pick the best!" And then it's up to the SA to pick the nominee to appoint.

    THEN THE FUN BEGINS!!!

    Why? Because all those OTHER folks? They are now "qualified alternates" and they go into the "QA Pool."

    This "pool" is where a LARGE number of the appointments actually come from. After all the "designated" appointments are made (500-850) on average, the rest are selected from this group. Typically half the appointments could be "qualified alternates!" Check some of these threads; I've told the tale MANY times of AZ Senator Jon Kyl and his 20 nominees several years ago. Long story short: he nominates 20 for the 2 openings he has. USAFA selects 2, the other 18 go into the QA Pool.

    In the end, another 12 of his nominees were appointed!

    'Nuff said?

    Steve
    USAFA ALO
    USAFA '83
     
  8. NorthernCalMother

    NorthernCalMother Member

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    When you read USNA1985's always-wise counsel, be sure you don't overlook her modifiers. As in, "It's my personal belief ... that interviews play a major role in most MOC noms."

    Our MOC didn't even conduct interviews -- nominations were based entirely on paper applications.

    Given this arm's length approach, it shouldn't have been a surprise my Mid wasn't even notified that he'd been nominated. It took multiple calls to pry that info out of our MOC's office (as it had taken him multiple contacts and calls to even get the nomination form).

    So "minimum requirements for nomination"? EVERYTHING in this process ... depends. All you can do is be the best YOU possible and hope for the best.
     
  9. nick0094

    nick0094 Member

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    So there ARE set scores/grades that USAFA considers a minimum?
     
  10. time2

    time2 Member

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    Let's not mix 'getting a nomination' with 'getting an appointment'. This thread started as a question about nominations. To get an appointment you need to be 1) 3Q AND 2) have a nomination. As others have pointed out above, the exact criteria for getting a nomination varies across the country and is not just about minimum test scores.
     
  11. armybratkl

    armybratkl Member

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    NONE of the SA's will publish a MINIMUM for ANYTHING. Period. That goes against basically everything that the academies stand for. There is no published minimum for the CFA. There is no published minimum for SAT/ACT. But there are averages out there.

    However, the MOC's are different. You get your nomination from a MOC, not an academy. You then compete with everyone else who applied to that MOC for a nomination. Normally, a MOC has one slot available for each SA, and they are able to nominate up to ten people for one slot. So, obviously, there is no minimum, because you just have to be in the top ten of the applicants....

    Basically, the message is that you just have to do your best. Don't set out to do just the minimum required of you. Strive to improve in everything. :)
     
  12. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Armybrat,

    The AFA does state the mins on their admissions web page, however, they state it in a particular way. I.E. they say a 24 or lower on the V and 25M of the ACT "normally will not be competitive for an appointment"....hint hint don't expect to be a candidate (those words are directly from their web). You always want to be above the mean whenever possible. For the AFA it is 1305 out of 1600 or a 30 composite for the ACT. For the SAT they state 580 V and 560 M

    As far as the CFA you are correct no mins are ever stated, but the maxs are. It is important to get as close to the max, especially for the AFA because they recognize that due to the alt. cadets will score lower when they get there while adjusting to the alt. This is why they look for strong scores.

    Realize that during the yr you will read that some kids are asked to re-take their CFA. The reason this occurs is because it is low and the candidate is viewed as being very competitive, except for this part. Don't rush it, get to the max and then hand it in. Before anyone asks, no you can not ask to re-take it only the SA can.

    For the nom process you should also realize that the committees have been doing this for a long time, thus they know from history the SAT/ACT scores that are the median at the SA's. They are going to take a longer look at the whole candidate if the SAT is low. (are they poor test takers?) Conversely they will also look at the candidate a little deeper if they have a high SAT and low gpa (are they smart, but slackers) At DS's interview they looked at his transcript and saw 1 C (quarter grade period not final) it was in AP Calc. They asked why did you get a C? He explained that it was material that he did not "get" originally, but by mid-term he had a B. Be prepared to answer questions like that if you have a little ding on the transcript. If you can logically explain it, they will move on, if you don't they might continue with the questions. I.E. poor answer would be I hate Math!:wink:

    It is not uncommon for 70+ candidates asking for 1 of the 10 noms. In areas like NoVa which is competitive it could be even higher.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2009
  13. armybratkl

    armybratkl Member

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    Okay, yes, I did overstate that a little. But while they say that they normally won't be competitive enough, they still aren't a minimum requirement. I'll agree that those candidates aren't as likely to receive appointments, but they still do happen. :)

    And I agree with everything else you said. Basically do the best you can and strive to get the highest possible. I'm aiming for the 68 ft on the BB throw, the six minute mile, the 50 push-ups, the seven pull-ups, the 95 sit-ups... and whatever the shuttle run max out is.

    There's one exception to retaking the CFA. You can retake it without the SA's request if you took the CFA at any of the summer seminars.
     
  14. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I would suggest to try to get higher on the pull-ups since the max is 18. Also try to get higher on pushups since I believe the max on that is 75.

    One other thing, go for the max, but don't go over, save your strength to have energy on what you consider your weaker areasm thus you will get more points.

    I think sit-up max was 89 and BB is 100. I can't recall the run, but I think it is @6 mins for max. I believe the shuttle is in the 8 second range.

    For candidates that struggle with pull-ups, our son did also. We bought a pull-up bar and placed it on the door of his room. The rule was everytime he went in or out he had to do do 5 pullups, than we increased it to 7, so on and so forth. In a few weeks he was at 14.

    I will stress it again, use the summer practicing the CFA, take it when you can't get anymore out of your body. No appts happen until October at the earliest (these are usually presidential noms). That means you have several months to get there. Many kids think there is a rush to get their packet in early and then spend 6 months waiting for their appt.

    Another note, when you get your nom and your packet is complete you will go up for a board and assigned a WCS. Do not be shocked if you hear nothing. No appt from the MOC slate (unless principal) can be given out until the entire slate has gone up for their WCS. I.E. you get your nom in Nov, you meet the board in Nov. However, candidate number 10 waits until Mar.1 to submit their final paperwork. You will be twiddling your thumbs until Mar. because the appt is given to the highest WCS on the slate. Also don't freak if someone else from your state gets an appt before you. There are variables in the equation, such as LOA, Presidential nom and you might have a different congressman.
     
  15. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

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    Re the CFA, three things are critical to understand:

    (1) All SAs use the same test but they may evaluate it differently. Thus, what is "good enough" for one SA may not be for another. I've posted USNA CFA averages on the USNA board; you'd need to check the other SAs for theirs (if they publish them).

    (2) For USNA at least, the CFA is important but the difference between a good score and an excellent score is unlikely to make or break your application. Thus, if you can do 10 pullups in August and think you can do 11or 12 by October, it's not worth waiting. If you can only do 1 pullup (as a male) in August and think you can do 5-7 by October, probably worth waiting, as the latter is a material difference and 1 pullup for a male would be considered poor.

    (3) The above said, you should always strive to do your very best. Just recognize that, given an infinite amount of time, all of us could probably do better in most things. It's really a balance b/t doing your best and getting your packet in early.
     
  16. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    The US Coast Guard Academy (a "SA" the last time I checked) does not use the same test.

    The Physical Fitness Examination for a USCGA application consists of push-ups, sit-ups, and a 1.5 mile run.

    :cool:
     
  17. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

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    ^^^

    Then I stand corrected.
     
  18. armybratkl

    armybratkl Member

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    That would be true if I were a guy. :biggrin:

    I did exactly the same thing. I started the summer not being able to do one pull-up (I think I did something like 25 seconds at the flexed arm hang and USMA SLS), and now I'm up to three. :biggrin:
     
  19. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator Moderator

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    Pima should be an ALO. :smile:

    A quote: "For candidates that struggle with pull-ups, our son did also. We bought a pull-up bar and placed it on the door of his room. The rule was everytime he went in or out he had to do do 5 pullups, than we increased it to 7, so on and so forth. In a few weeks he was at 14."

    When I was a cadet, my grades were...well let's just say I never made the "correct" Dean's list :wink: So I was never a threat to make the Wings of Blue, or the AM490 program for that matter.

    But I wanted my wings! So...Fort Benning...here I come!!!:cool:

    BUT...it required 55 push ups if I remember correctly. And I never EVER could do that many! Buy my roommate could. So we made an agreement in the fall.

    EVERY time we walked into the room, we dropped for push ups.

    I received my "very illegal" (they weren't supposed to do that) blood wings at Fort Benning that next summer...the drill WORKED!!:thumb:

    Steve
    USAFA ALO
    USAFA '83
     
  20. Seeking Knowledge

    Seeking Knowledge Member

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    armybratkl,
    What did you do specifically to achieve the pullups? Daughter is still striving to complete one and we do have a pullup bar.
     

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