what's next

My DS hangs in there. At times I wondered if he would, so I genuinely feel for all who are experiencing the pain of disenrollment.

You may wish to consider continuing studies at the Texas Maritime Academy at Texas A&M Galveston. Students pay slightly over in state tuition, there is great financial aid, wonderful weather all year round and the friendliest folks on the planet.

Plus you get to be an Aggie.

To those reading these posts and who are entering KP this summer, or whose offspring are entering KP this summer, be assured that it is no cakewalk and it is wise to approach it with respect and humility.
 
Thank you all for sharing your very personal stories/feelings. I would just like to reiterate that if your DS wants to stay in the maritime field of study that SUNY is an excellent school but it is also academically challenging (though I don't think quite as much as KP). I have a DS at SUNY who is a junior and will be a fifth year senior. My DD is at KP. SUNY does offer a great education and although they are academically demanding they do offer several levels of academic "warning" prior to dis-enrollment. I agree that time management is key for both institutions and often very bright high school students have not perfected that because quite frankly they did not have to in high school. My son is gifted and never really studied and certainly didn't spend a great deal of time devoted to academics in high school. As a result he faced grades he had never seen before at SUNY, went through two levels of academic warning until last year he was not permitted to play football and missed his sea term (thus the fifth year senior coming up). It was a great wake up call for him and he got his act together this year and is doing well. The benefit to those recently dis-enrolled from KP is they have learned what they will need to do and they have the potential to be very successful at another maritime college. They will also have many credits that can be applied toward the similar degree offered - they almost have a complete year finished, less the class(es) they would need to retake. I will be praying for God's guidance and wisdom for all the Plebes that are now charting a new course in their careers. Best wishes for you all!
 
El Bombero Jr.,
From your previous posts, on other threads, I am under the impression you are young and are an incoming plebe candidate with the class of 2015. You may not have heard of an old expression: "There is a time and place for everything". Two families are brave enough to share a tramatic event in their lives and you are asking what it is like in So. CA? I agree with you~It is WAY OFF topic!! Perhaps empathy is the correct emotion at this time. Just a thought...:topic:

Dblomomkp2013
I could not have said it better - and THANK YOU for saying it!!!!!
 
First off, I'd like to apologize to denisem for not initially expressing my empathy. To hear a story like that is extremely heart-breaking, and it reminds us at times that failure can even happen to the "cream of the crop." I wish your son the best of luck for the future and I'm sure he has a road of success ahead of him.

As for dblmomkp2013, I'm sorry that I'm not able to write a "lovey-dovey" paragraph like you can, and I recommend that you mind your own business because you're obviously interested in what I have previously posted on this site so far. Thanks.
 
My DS is not one who is being disenrolled so this isn't sour grapes- just another perspective after a couple years of parenting a student at KP:

First, the rules change every year, with 3 supt in 3 years, no wonder but that doesn't make it good for the school, and especially not good for the plebes and mids.

Second, time management is critically important but so are decent instructors and realistic course loads.

Third, it seems this year there are very few 2nd chances- and grit and determination don't seem to count for as much as they did in the past.

Finally, with 1 F and you're out, KP loses some very talented future mariners.

In the end, it may be KPs loss!

Well said and right on target.
 
First off, I'd like to apologize to denisem for not initially expressing my empathy. To hear a story like that is extremely heart-breaking, and it reminds us at times that failure can even happen to the "cream of the crop."

It might be your story next year...and I'll have my violin out and ready to play for ya..

As for dblmomkp2013, I'm sorry that I'm not able to write a "lovey-dovey" paragraph like you can, and I recommend that you mind your own business because you're obviously interested in what I have previously posted on this site so far. Thanks.

From everything I've seen you post I've come to the conclusion that you have a SERIOUS attitude problem. You had better correct it 'tout suite' or you will have major difficulties at King Point and more importantly out in the Merchant Fleet... Good luck, 'cause you're going to need it.
 
Folks the warning has been given, let's move on from the posts that were off-topic, thanks!
 
To denisem

I know your pain. Hang in there...encourage him to talk about it when he wants/needs to. You also need to stay in close touch with your son...he will need all the support you can give him. Most of all, he needs to stay in touch with his other KP buddies. They can truly be a life line.

My daughter left Kings Point almost 3 years ago...tossed out on a medical just when classes were starting in the fall. She had no school to go to other than the local community college. She spent a year and a half trying to get her act together and her grades were awful. She was depressed.

She kept in touch with her classmates at Kings Point...they loved her and she loved them. She still misses it but realizes now that it was not really meant to be...there was something else for her.

She still has the medical problem, and it is potentially devastating, so that is always hanging over our heads as a possibility. But, its also quite probable that she will live a full and normal life.... life goes on and you have to live it to its fullest, no matter where you are.

She is now excited, grades have recovered from her initial devastation and depression post Kings Point, and she has plans and goals for the future. Why, i think my young lady will indeed go to law school in a few years. This experience has truly made her even more determined and focused.

Keep your head up , mom, your son needs you and you must be strong.
 
My older brother was disenrolled from KP after 1 quarter. He went to Cal Maritime (which is really where he wanted to go to begin with) and is currently sailing as 1stMate and just got his unlimited Masters license. I graduated from KP and am on a tugboat. Each must make their own Path to success and not everyone can follow the same path.
 
from the perspective of someone currently at the academy, there are a few things i'd like to say.

first off, let me pretty much confirm the suspicion that no more setbacks are being offered. last term, we saw a suprising amount of setbacks, given the new Admiral's known stance on the issue. however, it seems that this term the axe is falling, and it's falling hard. it is not a class-dependent issue; last week, albeit only as rumor has it (fairly substantiated rumor, but rumor nonetheless- take it for whatever you will), somewhere in the neighborhood of 15 plebes were disenrolled for academic reasons, along with several 4/c setbacks, and a fair number of 1st classemen. I personally cant comment on the number of 2013 B-splitters that were separated last term on sea project grounds, but as far as i can tell the message is fairly clear- no failure will be tolerated, regardless of circumstances.

To me, this seems unfair. Let me be the first to admit that i thought the policy of the previous administration was far too lax. this is a difficult environment, and it is NOT for people who fail due to a LACK of effort or determination on their part. there is the necessity for a certain amount of drive and grit in order to succeed here. MANY times my plebe year, individuals who failed classes due to their own indifference or laziness were given astounding amounts of leeway. that kind of willingness to forgive a poor attitude or work ethic has a detrimental effect on the rest of the regiment, as it shows that those that work hard to succeed are treated little different than those who let the chips fall as they may.

Now, it seems, the pendulum has swung entirely too far in the other direction. as i previously stated, this is a difficult environment, and sometimes despite the near-herculean efforts of a student, they can be inundated by the sheer amount of classwork, regimental duties, and other assorted trials that KP is so adept at presenting. setbacks exist(ed) for a reason, and that was to give those students with the will and ability to succeed a second chance. as far as my analysis of the current trend goes, it seems that the students that have fallen behind as a result of circumstances beyond their control are being treated the same as the ones that simply do not care. this, in turn, also has a detrimental effect on the regiment, as it again shows that hard work is only valued so long as it produces success, regardless of the circumstances.

The most disturbing part of the new trend from my perspective is the percieved willingness of the Admiral to ignore the findings of the review boards and make decisions based entirely on his own perception of what is best for the Academy. while i realize that doing so is a certain part of his job, the review board system exists for a reason, which is to allow midshipmen to be first judged by a jury of their peers and a recommendation be given to the higher-ups based on what should by all rights be an objective consensus of individuals in similar situations to the accused. I offer an example: one of the plebes in my company, by all rights a good plebe, a good student, and who would most likely have been a good midshipman, fell behind in some difficult plebe year courses due to a combination of universally recognized poor instruction and family difficulties. During his academic review board, he recieved 100% UNANIMOUS recommendation for a setback. 100% unanimous review board rulings historically happen in only the most clear-cut of cases on either end of the spectrum. this ruling was overturned by the Admiral, along with EVERY OTHER setback recommendation, and this individual was disenrolled earlier this week. To me, this not only shows a stubborn inflexibility that is detrimental to nearly all decision-making processes, but an insulting disrespect for the midshipmen and the Academy system OF WHICH HE IS A PRODUCT.

I dont pretend to have the answers to this issue, but i do know this. the circumstances of each and every case of this kind will be different. they CANNOT be judged by a blanket policy that treats each one in the same manner, because they are not the same. i can only hope that the administration can recognize this, like the rest of the regiment has, and moderates their policy before irreparable damage has been done to the academy infrastructure that has historically handled the issues currently at hand.
 
Well said, WAC2013.
I was with some mids today and what you expressed so well is exactly what they are feeling but not expressing quite as eloquently.
The mids and plebes are fearful of getting caught in the crosshairs in a system, in great flex, swinging from one extreme to the other. In the end, it will likely land in an appropriate middle ground which in the long run is great for KP's future but I hope it is not at the expense of the current students.
 
Thank you WAC2013

I am glad that you chose to post in response to the situation currently at KP. You are right, the pendulum is grossly to one side currently and the lack of respect for the input of the Review Board seems to leave The Board in somewhat of a pointless existence. Sad. You are also correct in noting that there are differences between those who are not even trying to (academically OR regimentally) succeed and those who are trying very hard, but given certain sets of circumstances (sometimes not of their own doing), fail. The failure is not the thing we should focus on - it's the will to get up and try again and make it right. That's the kind of person I want on my team! The Review Board has most often sorted out which is which and made wise and thoughtful determinations in the past in this regard.

WAC2013 - I'd like to hear from you about MORALE......it is our understanding that it's at an all time low. I believe the moderator has asked for that thread as well in this forum just recently - and I think that's of utmost importance at this time. I have a few degrees and plenty of life experience, and I've failed plenty of times getting there! It's part of life. I wasn't cut off during the process, I was told to get back up, and finish the job!

From a mid's perspective, it must seem like living under the gun 24/7 and only adds to the heavy stress you all have already - to not know how you are going to be dealt with at any given trimester/time. I see morale at an all time low right now, and I would like to know, comparatively speaking, how you would also measure it - from plebes and upperclassmen - given your past few years of tumultuous leadership circumstances. You are so right about the pendulum effect - it's wildly off right now, and the fact that the Review Board is in essence, a hollow element to the process, must bring morale down even more. Unfortunate indeed. Thank you too for noting the difference/s between those who truly care about (academically) succeeding, but through unfortunate circumstances, were unable to do so - and those who just don't really care and fail. It appears there is a lot of "work" to do to make this the first class SA it should be.

Mistakes are the usual bridge between inexperience and wisdom. ~Phyllis Theroux
 
To all the disenrolled students from MOM

Disenrolled student, you know me from Cookie Cafe. I'm the one who gave you hugs and asked if you were doing okay. I just heard that you got disenrolled. I feel very badly. I am very sorry.

Now you need time to do nothing for a few days, relax, get extra sleep and get energized. (Give your Mom a hug, she is as upset as you are and needs your encouragement).

Then quickly pick yourself up, and get moving. Sitting around for too long will lead to you being depressed and more of a feeling that you are a failure. You are not!!! You do NOT have to graduate from KP to be a great person and a wonderful student, and earn an excellent degree. There are so many other wonderful options. After a short time, when you are enrolled somewhere else and enjoying yourself at another school, no one will know that you were disenrolled unless you decide to tell them.

I know a person who didn't do well academically his first year and was disenrolled. He was discouraged, but picked up his resolve, went on to another school, earned his Bachelors, his Master's Degree and Ph.D. At first he was very discouraged but decided to move on. Looking back he is VERY GLAD that there was a course change in his life, as it led to a perfect fit for him. You can do that too. MANY students do not make it the first try and go on to very successful earned degrees, and excellent careers.

Sometimes some tutoring or going to a community college to strengthen weak areas can be a great asset in not having a continual stumbling block in your academics. My weak areas were physics and math and I really struggled but finally made it with alot of effort, studying and working at it. Not everything comes easy. Working hard to overcome the difficulties gives you character and tenacity. That will help you the rest of your life. Those traits are priceless and will probably be the best training you ever get.

If you want to continue in the maritime field and want a high number or almost all your credits transfer, I suggest, as many others have, that you apply to SUNY MARITIME. I know a KP student who is finishing off her degree there, and she had all her credits transfer. She is loving it, feels she is getting a great education and she says the professors are good. She even says she can understand them. The SUNY grads are very highly respected in the maritime fields. OR maybe now is the time to think about that career that you have always dreamed about.

Life is an adventure, it doesn’t always take us the way we were expecting and we are so disappointed. As many people, who have lived longer than you will tell you, that often the turns become the making of you, and were the best thing that ever happened. You will not see that right away, but with age there is the privilege of looking back and smiling.

Please contact me if you want. We are still family, even if you are not at KP.
Love, MOM
 
Well said WAC2013. Thank you for voicing your truth in such a profound and intelligent manner.

It was my plebe that was dis-enrolled this past week even though he received a 100 percent UNAMIOUS setback. Needless to say, he is quite upset. When he found out he was being dis-enrolled he drove 5 hours in the middle of the night during floods to get back to USMMA to prepare his case with the ARB. I am VERY PROUD of my pelbe. He showed his true man-hood and the type of Midshipmen he would have been. Dedicated, responsible and caring. He would have been an asset to the Academy and the Merchant Marines. I only wish the academy was that insightful. I am very saddened that the ARB was not given the respect of their decision making process. My plebe, bled USMMA and still does. He has already registered to take the necessary classes to excel in Physics and Calc. He will achieve his goals...sometimes climbing the mountain is not as imperative as assessing the mountain and finding another way around it.
 
Landslide: obviously a very tough time for your family. I wish your son and your family all the best over the coming weeks and months.

I definitely agree with the advice given above. If a maritime career is desired then definitely look into the State maritime academies or a pretty much rarely, if ever, used option is to reapply to USMMA after showing progress at a different institution.
 
Thank you KP2001. Between his uncle passing and his aunt (55 yrs old - living just 5 miles from KP) having a stroke, and knowing she would be alone, he was torn. Unfortunate situations, but my plebe is not only true to his country...but to his family. The hardest part is that he will be out of "uniform" for the first time in 7 years. He was a Young Marine, a graduate of a Military High School and then a Plebe. I think he is feeling like a fish out of water...excuse the pun. There are many directions he can take, although, I think that he is going to try KP again. He is certainly not a quitter. As I said in my earlier post...he bleds KP. I guess these are the qualities I am most proud of :smile:as his parent. He becomes stronger with every set back. He will be fine. A little shaken right now, who wouldn't be?
 
Dear Cookie Cafe Mom,

Thank you for being all of the kids "MOM" while they were there. I'm grateful for your taking the time with these fine young men and women and for giving them a "piece" of home with a hug and a cookie. God Bless
 
Hi Crossroads,

Yes, the morale is very low. Although it is every student's intention to do well, yet, from what I am seeing, they are now fearful. It has gone from building charcter to destroying one's self esteem.
 
I just wanted to express my deepest sympathy to my fellow SA brothers and sisters who have been disenrolled. My heart breaks because I know what it is like to put the extra hours and hard work in only to be rewarded with a failing or close to failing grade. Although USCGA and USMMA have our differences/rivalries and make fun of one another, I know that neither academy would wish failure upon the other.

I personally know the experience of being disenrolled. I was discharged last year from the class of 2013 after suffering from a medical issue. Like someone's DS, I too became depressed and it last for a long time. I had gone from attending one of the best school in the country to attending my local community college. I agree with the advice given here, do not let your son or daughter sit and stew for too long. It is counterproductive. Encourage them to look at other opportunities and schools just as great as USMMA.

From an outsider's perspective, I see the policy of "one fail an you're out" as inappropriate and hurtful. It is only hurting KP in the long run. One failed class does not show that the individual will be a poor Mariner or Military Officer. It only showed that he struggled. I truly hope that KP will consider revising its policy for the better.
 
KP2001
Do you know if reapplying is ever an option-a successful option - at KP?

That would be my advise to a disenrolled plebe (for mids that is not such an attractive option unless it doesn't involve starting ALL over again) who lives and breaths KP. Willingness to start over surely seems like the kind of student any college would want.
 
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