Why we should get rid of West Point...

Discussion in 'Academy/Military News' started by packermatt7, Apr 18, 2009.

  1. packermatt7

    packermatt7 USAFA Cadet

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    This should irk some people...

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/16/AR2009041603483.html

    My personal favorite:

    This "reporter" has basically no facts to back up his opinions, and makes generalized statements that flat-out aren't true...

    If you click "comments" underneath, read the guy from USMA staff that posted... it's quite interesting.
     
  2. sooner

    sooner Candidate Appointee

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    Is he SURE he spent the last two decades covering the military? Last time I checked you HAVE to go to a civilian school and earn a graduate degree before you can be promoted to a certain level. O-4, I think.
     
  3. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    Our military; and thereby it's officers; are indisputably the best in the world. And they have been for about 100 years. Apparently; according to this freaking idiot; we've been doing it wrong. What a putz.
     
  4. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    We should get rid of West Point because their football team is terrible. I've been the past two years for the Army/Navy game, and I've cheered for West Point each time, and each time, the disappoint me, but last year....that wasn't even football, that was "let Navy run around everywhere" ball.
     
  5. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    But, back to the subject, nothing in the Washington Post irks me....because I gave up on the Post a LONG time ago, at the same time I gave up on the New York Times.


    The Wall Street Journal is delivered to my apartment every day (except Sundays); I will keep buying that.
     
  6. packermatt7

    packermatt7 USAFA Cadet

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    I'm sure that the USAFA program that just sent a satellite into space is one that they have in many community colleges...
     
  7. jbrown

    jbrown Member

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    LITS, I'm with you 100% on this. I gave up on paper years ago, I may be crazy, but it seems to me paper=liberal bias. The only paper I get is the Weekly Standard, which of course if very conservative,, and therefore I give it as gifts to my customers and friends.

    I was really surprised in another thread to see a posting of a positive result from a bottle in the washington post.

    jb
     
  8. hornetguy

    hornetguy USAFA Cadet

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    Unfortunately, none of the comments below reflected on USAFA. We have some incredible credentials that you can find in the Princeton Review and some of our degree programs are amazing. I would put another opinion that I receive from across the service academies about the academics at USAFA, but a couple on here would have a heart attack as usual. Cheers.
     
  9. America's Finest

    America's Finest USMA Cadet

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    Worst idea...ever...

    How could that be posted? It's obvious most will be against it.
     
  10. Roman

    Roman Member

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    I didn't realize it was him. :eek:
     
  11. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

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    Tom Ricks is also the author of "Fiasco". Suffice it to say that I believe he is about as knowledgable and straightforward a commentator about the US Military as you can find from my observation. I don't agree with his article but think that it's an interesting comment and if you want to disprove it I would think that you are going to need to be less knee jerk about the "evil liberal press" and more fact based- ie... retention of officers past initial obligation; academic quality and standing of the SA faculty, and course loads versus civilian counterparts; number of Rhodes scholarships and post graduate degrees earned by SA alumni etc.. I might go live on monday just to see what he has to say and will be interested in hearing the counterarguments presented.
     
  12. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    Just because he's "Covered" the military doesn't mean that his opinion is any more valid than what it is. An OPINION. If he doesn't think that an academy officer isn't different or stands out in relationship to OTS and ROTC, then he really doesn't know what he's talking about. And if he thinks that the academies have an INFERIOR education than a civilian college; then again; he doesn't know what he's talking about.

    Now; having an opinion that West Point should be closed down, is fine. It's an opinion. However, his reasons (Other than financial), makes his "Opinion" much less credible. And what the hell he means by civilian school officers being less "Cynical" I'll never know.

    The military system requires a balance between the hardcore full time 24/7 military, and the civilian citizen that they are defending. There are many layers in that balance. There is active duty, guard, and reserve. There are enlisted, officers, and civilian DOD employees. NONE is better than the other. All are important it making the mission successful. Yet, each of them compliments the other and so with the balance. The commissioned officer corp is no different. Whether it's a prior enlisted who got their degree after 5-10 years enlisted and went OTS; or the high school kid who went to the academy or ROTC. They all compliment and balance each other.

    I can not speak for the Army and West Point. But in the Air Force, academy grads, ROTC, and OTS are each unique and different. They each bring unique experiences and perspectives on the military. They all compliment each other. While none are necessarily better than the other, they each are needed. It is not cost effective to have all future officers academy cadets. At the same time, it is imperative that some of the officers have that 24/7 4 year training experience. You can't get that part of your training in ROTC and OTS. It's not possible.

    So, Tom Ricks can have all the opinions he wants. And he can have the credentials that he covered the military for many years. But that doesn't mean he is right or credible. And "Covering" the military isn't even CLOSE to having served in the military. I don't care if he was on the "Battle Field" or not. Again; his opinion is fine. And I respect that. But when he starts spouting reasons that are ignorant and stupid, then his "Opinion" loses credibility. As such; he loses credibility. later.... mike.....
     
  13. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    Please point out one "ignorant" or "stupid" reason he "spouted."
     
  14. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member

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    Seriously Luigi?
    "...but too often hey're getting community-college educations." would you not classify this as "ignorant"?

    "After covering the U.S. military for nearly two decades, I've concluded that graduates of the service academies don't stand out compared to other officers" I'm glad he can so casually make such a conclusion.

    "Just ask David Petraeus, a Princeton PhD. " Is he suggesting that Patreus did not benefit from West Point? and the many educational opportunities that were afforded to him via West Point.
     
  15. hornetguy

    hornetguy USAFA Cadet

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    I'll make a point from the article. Tom Ricks states that we are locked up for 4 years, thinking that we become biased and cut off from the world. I'd argue the opposite from my experience. I've had my ideas and thoughts challenged on a daily basis from my classmates and my teachers, more than ever before. When we have leadership conferences with delegates from other colleges, I find less diversity of opinion and thought than I find in my daily life here. Just because everyone here decided to join the AF doesn't mean we have the same opinions, not even close.
     
  16. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    There are a good number of them in there.....education level....come on you should know.....is your son getting a community college level education right now? I don't think I did...I can say that my scores, pre-college were far higher than "cc" level scores, and that an academy challenged me. He's talking about the federal service academies as institutions, not West Point specifically while maintaining the other schools are just fine.
     
  17. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    Of course not, but somebody has to push ChristCorp's buttons once in a while and play Devil's Advocate. :biggrin:

    Taking a contrarian position once in a while is a good way to continue a forum debate when all of us are essentially in agreement.:wink:
     
  18. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    Hahahahaha....phew! :shake:
     
  19. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member

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    my thoughts exactly... you had me concerned for a moment :yllol:
     
  20. hornetguy

    hornetguy USAFA Cadet

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    lol, that set of conversation just made my day. Bravo Luigi.
     

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