What upsets me is the open "total distrust, fear, and cynical view" folks seem to have. It's not naive to trust in the law and the "normalcy" of the HUGE majority of people: of all ethnic backgrounds. Will there be "questionable" folks? OF COURSE. Oh duh, that's normal NOW with ALL our laws.
But to equate this to a police state is not naive, its simply fear mongering. And references to the Nazi state with your comment to the "Secret State Police" or, as you point out: "Geheime Staatspolizei" also known, to English speakers as "The Gestapo" is totally out of line, IMHO and insulting.
The sad thing is this will never be law because there is too much money involved now that will fight it on any ground that can be found. And the PC community of the states and the power of the polical action groups, will ensure that those in office and on the bench create good reasons to not allow this.
So what WILL happen is a lot of bellicose fearmongering, open lying (see that already in the media), and more divisiveness in our nation. And in the end, the only real impact it'll have is to push the present government into another "Amnesty for All."
When does this end? When do we stop throwing money away taking care of other nations folks illegally in our nation? We are virtually the ONLY nation on earth that will spend itself into bankruptcy for the illegal immigrant, and yet won't take care of our own poor/indigent/disadvantaged citizens.
No Luigi, it's not naiveté. It's an abiding faith in the rule of law, in the foundations of our nation, and the belief, however misplaced, that the citizens of this country will by and large do the right thing.
FYI...I have been stopped by a LEO...and during the "contact" he said "Do you have any weapons with you? And I said yes. He said he needed to see them and I said no he didn't. He said he DID to ensure they were legal...I again said NO, you don't; they're mine. And after he looked long and hard at me, he left. I had answered his questions honestly and he had no probable cause to search. Similar in essence to what you fear and yet the rule of law prevailed because...
I was within my rights, and he was fishing. Do I think this will occur with the new law? Yes, as it does with ALL laws. Do I fear that? No. Why? Because if they stopped me and after a while said they suspected I was not legal...I would simply say "I am legal." If they asked for paperwork to show it, then I can tell them:
a. I'm a citizen and I'm not required to carry any paperwork. If driving, I must have my DL, that's the law. And
I am required to show it. In AZ that will end the discussion.
b. I'm a legal visitor in the country. FYI...it's Federal Law that ALL visitors to our nation carry proof of their legal entry to the USA with them.
c. I'm not answering any questions...expect to be delayed while investigation begins.
Oh and by the way, a few paragraphs down in SB1070 is the part about the legal right and expectation to SUE all LEO's, etc., that misuse this authority. THAT has more folks in AZ worried than the other parts...because they're afraid some LEO's won't be smart and will generate lawsuits. Another reason I believe that they'll be SUPER careful about the rules of engagement.
Again, I guess we'll agree to disagree on this.
But that's BOTH our rights and something I've defended for a long time and will continue to do so.
Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
Great post Steve, you are very articulate and put this "game" into perspective...I'm an old dumb Marine and appreciate your refined answer
Too bad for political expediency and intellectual honesty.
For the record, I think Luigi is a fine man but mistaken in this discussion.